Transcript of Every James Cameron Movie, Explained by James Cameron | Vanity Fair
Vanity Fair
0:00If I do have a general philosophy,0:02you know, looking back across it, I0:04guess it's just taking people on a0:06journey, it's creating a narrative0:09around imagery that's really powerful0:11and almost in a way dreamlike. It's0:13really about the for me about the the0:15sanctity of the theatrical experience,0:17[music] but the throughine is a0:19transportive experience.0:27Hi, I'm Jim Cameron and I've directed0:30nine feature films and we're going to0:32talk about every one of them.0:35The Terminator.0:37I was probably at a point in my career0:39that that I would consider to be less0:40than zero. You're at zero if you haven't0:43directed a film. I had been hired to0:45direct a film that I won't name that I0:47got fired off of after a few days. And0:49so I thought, okay, I'm blacklisted. you0:51know, I was at at less than zero. I0:54thought, I'm going to have to create0:55something that everybody wants to make.0:59And in fact, the Terminator script was1:01very wellreceived and people wanted to1:02buy it, but they wanted to buy it to1:04develop it and have other filmmakers1:06make the film. Gail Anne Herd, the1:08producer, and myself made a kind of a1:11blood oath that we would not be1:13separated. We would not sell the1:15material. You know, she'd produce it,1:17I'd direct it, or no deal. and Hemale1:20bought it, you know, to to develop with1:22us and they promised me that I would be1:24able to direct it.1:33We got a decent enough budget that we1:35thought was a pretty good budget, but we1:37were coming out of Roger Corman Film1:39School where budgets were half a million1:41dollars or a million dollars at the1:43most. And, you know, we got $4.3 million1:46below the line to make that film. We1:48thought we were in in Nirvana. Of1:50course, you know that everything is1:52relative. And that was an ambitious1:54project for for that kind of money. I1:56was living in a little apartment in1:58Tarzana and um my mom was sending me2:01coupons so that I could get two Big Macs2:03for the price of one because she didn't2:05think I was eating enough, which I2:07wasn't. Well, Terminator is sort of, you2:09know, what you call a genre bender, I2:11guess. Gail and I looked up to Carpenter2:13and Hill who'd done Halloween and these2:16lowbudget films. And you know, I thought2:19if I'm ever wildly successful, I might2:21be a John Carpenter, you know what I2:23mean? So, we were thinking of it as a2:24low-budget slasher movie. We felt if we2:27contained it and we kept that sort of2:29greater backstory well over the horizon2:32of the present- day events, you know, we2:34could actually do it for a budget. And2:36so, you know, we went out with a light2:38meter and found the streets that were2:40bright enough to shoot, you know, where2:42they had mercury vapor lights. Used car2:44lots were great because they cast enough2:46light off their flood lights out onto2:48the street we could shoot there.2:51[screaming]2:54It wound up being a science fiction2:56film. I think people don't think of it2:58as a horror film in a in a classic3:00sense. Of course, it's based on horror3:02tropes. The killer that can't be killed3:05that comes back, Michael Myers. But we3:07broke in with this story that that had a3:09higher thematic value. And I think3:11that's why it got more attention that3:13and you know we cast Arnold.3:18>> I'll be back.3:19>> Arnold was kind of presented to us by by3:21one of the executive producers but to3:23play Michael Bean's character to play3:25the action leading man. I didn't see3:28that at all. But Arnold had read the3:30script. He really enjoyed the script. He3:32liked the script. And the character he3:33kept talking about was a Terminator. I3:35don't think he was trying to angle for3:36that part. but he just talked about set3:38pieces that were more Terminator set3:40pieces. While he's talking, I'm kind of3:43looking at him and I'm I'm I'm rapidly3:45readjusting3:47my vision of the movie and the character3:50because it's all a no-brainer after the3:52fact. But what I wrote was a character3:55who was an infiltrator. He was covered3:57with skin so that he could blend in with4:00us so that nobody would look at him4:01twice. Well, Arnold is not that guy. So,4:04I'm reccalibrating in my mind the whole4:06time he's talking. There are whole parts4:08of the conversation I don't even4:09remember because I'm just looking at his4:12face. I'm thinking, "Okay, he walks into4:14a room. He looks different. He's bigger.4:16He's wider. He looks unstoppable. This4:18is a very different story, but it could4:21work." So, I'm rewriting the script in4:24my mind while I'm talking to Arnold. And4:25when I left the meeting, theoretically,4:27we were still talking about Reese,4:29Michael Bean's character. And I went to4:30meet with John Daly who was the head of4:32Hemdale executive producer and he said4:34how'd it go? I said he's not Ree and he4:37was like ah you know and I said but he'd4:40make a hell of a Terminator. John didn't4:43miss a beat. Walked over, picked up the4:44phone, dialed up Arnold's agent and4:46offered him the part. It got turned down4:49and then Arnold fired his agent. He4:50hired him back the next day and said, "I4:53want this part." And so then, you know,4:56it all worked out.4:59when we saw the dailies of how he looked5:02in that kind of greenish light from the5:03dashboard with no eyebrows and and Stam5:06Winston's makeup guys had glycerined up5:08his face so it had a almost plasticky5:11sheen and I had asked him to do a thing5:14where I want you to look with your eyes5:16first then turn your head so it's a5:19slightly inhuman disconnect because we5:21tend to look together but we uncoupled5:23that motion 100 millimeter lens closeup5:26and and we're sitting in dies I said,5:28"Run that again." And Gail and I looked5:30at each other and we said, "We've got a5:32movie."5:32>> Okay. Who gets the burly beef?5:34>> I ordered barbecue beef. I think that's5:35mine, but I didn't order fries.5:36>> Barbecue beef. Mine's the chili beef5:38deluxe.5:38>> Okay. Who gets the burly beef?5:40>> Miss, we're ready to order now.5:42>> Yes, ma'am.5:43>> Oh, good.5:44>> We pulled all of Linda's solo scenes5:47forward because we didn't get Arnold5:48until day 10 of the of a 40-day shoot.5:51So, a quarter of the film. We had to So,5:53we just shot Linda. Linda broke her5:56ankle two days before shooting or5:59seriously sprained it almost like a6:01break and she was wearing this really6:03really tight sports wrap so that she6:05could barely limp around the set and6:08it's about a girl running for her life.6:10You know, it's like we pulled out every6:12trick and some that had no one had ever6:14even imagined to get that film made at6:17that budget level and with all the6:18adversity. But at that moment when we6:20saw the dailies that day, we said,6:23"We've got a movie." And man,6:25everybody's spirits just kind of kind of6:27lifted. And that gave us the energy to6:29to power through. We had our rap party6:32halfway through the schedule because we6:34didn't believe we would live to the end,6:37Aliens.6:40Well, things changed for me. You know,6:42Terminator made the the Time magazine 106:45best movies of the year list. I'm like,6:47are you kidding me? Did I just die or go6:50to another dimension? So everything's6:52kind of blowing up and it was out of but6:53I had already written the script for6:55Aliens before I shot the Terminator.6:58Actually I'd written a treatment and I6:59had started the script. So I kind of was7:02already excited about this movie and7:04Walter Hill who had produced the first7:06Alien had promised me that they would7:08wait for me to direct it. So I was on7:10track to do that next. And everybody's7:12advising me not to do it. You know,7:14literally the advice I got was anything7:16good in the movie you make will be7:18attributed to Ridley Scott, and if it's7:21bad and it fails, it's all on you. And I7:24said, "Yeah, but it's cool.7:27>> Move.7:31No. Here. Here.7:35Run." But the funny thing was I'd7:37already gotten into now we're in7:38pre-production on Aliens and nobody's7:42talked to Sigourney. I had gone into it7:44and signed a deal and everything on the7:46principle that Sigourney was under an7:48option. But there's this thing called7:50the 7-year rule and the option was7:53uninforcable. So, um, I drove up to7:56Santa Barbara to to meet her. She was7:58living up there at the time and we had8:00this great meeting and she was just so8:02so sweet and so intelligent and we just8:04clicked. in the heart,8:07>> right?8:07>> You're ready to rock and roll.8:09>> What's this?8:11>> That's a grenade launcher. I don't think8:13you want to mess with that.8:14>> So, Sigourney shows up on set and she8:16said, "What's all this with me firing8:18machine guns? I'm a gun violence8:19anti-gun advocate." And I said, "Did you8:22actually read the script?" She said,8:23"Well, I read the dialogue." I said,8:26"You might want to go back and read the8:27pros section in act three." So I took8:30her out back behind the studio at in8:32Pinewood in England and I put a Thompson8:34machine gun in her hands, blank rounds,8:36and said, "Try this." And she8:40and she looks at me and says, "Oh,8:42that's kind of cool." I said, "That's8:44what you have to do." And she said, "All8:45right." [laughter]8:53I think Ripley was kind of in the mix in8:56my mind when I was writing Sarah like8:59and you know Jaime Lee Curtis in in9:01Halloween. You know, it was a weird9:03metamorphosis out of the last girl9:05trope, right? That you have the the last9:08woman that the killer tries to kill and9:10and she fights back and she prevails.9:12And I think it comes from maybe, you9:13know, having a very strong mom, having9:15strong women in my family. There's9:17probably a whole Freudian interpretation9:19around it. So somehow the the last girl9:22trope in horror movies to me was more9:25meaningful. It was about the resilience9:27that a woman could have, the9:29intelligence that the things that they9:31the type of strength that a woman brings9:33to to a character, which is not the9:35typical masculine kick in the door,9:38shoot the gun sort of thing. Although I9:39did give her a little bit of that uh in9:41Aliens, it's different. And I think that9:44comes from my life experience before9:45that and funneled through that kind of9:48horror slasher trope and then suddenly9:51taking on its own life. So after the9:53success of the Terminator and Aliens, I9:56was like, "Oh, I I realize now I'm doing9:59something that Hollywood hasn't done10:01well, you know, in mainstream movies."10:03And uh I thought I'll just keep doing10:06it. People are responding to it. Last10:08time I checked, women are half the10:09audience. The question is how how can I10:11as a a a male writer, male filmmaker10:14that likes action and adventure, how can10:15I appeal to a male audience and a female10:18audience simultaneously? And I think10:20that started to come together for me in10:22The Abyss and in the in the subsequent10:24films. It became a more conscious10:27choice, but it seemed like fertile10:30ground.10:32>> Get away from her, you10:36She's the final girl, but she's got this10:38little girl that she's protecting,10:41right? So, there was so much more at10:42stake for her than just her own life.10:45When we shot that, you know, we thought,10:46"Okay, this is a pretty cool moment."10:48You know, it's one of those moments, you10:50know, is going to work, but I had no10:52idea when we premiered the film. A10:54thousand of our closest friends, all of10:56whom had their knives ready to pull out10:58and carve it to pieces, and the audience11:01just erupted. It was spontaneous.11:05ground swell of applause, practically a11:07standing ovation for one line, and I11:09thought, "Wow, this is what cinema11:12really is.11:14The Abyss."11:16Well, coming off of Aliens, we were two11:18for two on hits. It was an interesting11:21time in my life because Gail and I had11:23fallen in love toward the end of the11:25finish of The Terminator. We'd gotten11:27married before we made Aliens. Then we'd11:30separated and we were on track for11:32divorce11:34after I wrote The Abyss, but before we11:37shot it. So, here I had written this11:39thing about a separated couple, but we11:41weren't separated when I wrote it. I'm11:43writing the script and I need a11:45producer.11:47Gail,11:48I know we're separated and we're getting11:50divorced, but do you want to produce11:51this thing cuz there's nobody that could11:53do it better than you? Long silence, you11:56know. Yes. So, we went into it and we're11:59telling a story about a couple pending12:01divorce, separated. Now, in the movie,12:03they get back together. In real life,12:04Gail and I didn't get back together, but12:06we did have a great experience working12:08on the film. And we realized that there12:10was a higher thing to our professional12:13relationship than just kind of being in12:15love and all that. Let's get the hell12:18out [screaming] of here.12:24Let's go. Let's go. Hit the door.12:29Hit the door.12:32Jesus.12:36>> Very, very difficult film for all the12:38obvious reasons. Building these giant12:40sets, being able to flood them so that12:42they appeared to be underwater. Having12:44people be able to work safely in diving12:47helmets that we made up. They were props12:50in a movie, but they had to really work12:52or the actors died. We had a really good12:54designer named Ron Cobb who designed the12:56face plate so that you could film the12:59actor from the side and from the front.13:01And then we had to have the Kirby Morgan13:04guys figure out how to make it13:07breathable so the actors wouldn't13:09suffocate or get CO2, you know, too much13:12CO2 and all that. It was a technical13:14nightmare, but it was cool. So, I try to13:17get all the technical challenges out of13:18the way first so that when I'm working13:20with the actors, I can be there and I13:22can be present for them to do the13:24dramatic work.13:25>> With all that's going on up in the13:26world, you bring a nuclear weapon in13:28here.13:29>> This is Bigman.13:30>> Does this strike anyone as particularly13:32psychotic or is it just me? The Abyss13:35was a real turning point for me in my13:37life, my greater life, because to solve13:40a lot of the technical challenges and to13:42get it right and I'm attracted to13:44projects that I can learn on because I'm13:46highly curious. I went to the experts. I13:49went to the people that build robotic13:51vehicles, ROVs. I went to the to the13:54people that are doing the deep ocean13:56exploration. In the course of that, I13:58met Don Walsh, the world's deepest man,14:00the guy that went to the bottom of the14:02Challenger Deep, you know, 50some years14:04before I did. But this is the moment14:06where the deep ocean became very real14:08for me in personal terms. Woods Hole,14:12Robert Ballard, who found the Titanic.14:14He took me under his wing, taught me14:16about ROVs. They were just getting into14:18underwater robotics at that time, and I14:20wanted to show that in the film. That14:22was my version of like meeting my14:23heroes. Then after the abyss, of course,14:26I applied those connections to my real14:29life and I became an actual deep ocean14:32explorer as a result of of that. So, you14:35know, there was the challenge of14:36actually making the film and making it14:38look real and I had to understand a lot14:40about how the deep ocean worked in terms14:43of the dramatics of it. You know, I had14:45to get the actors comfortable being14:47divers. If you're casting a western,14:49every actor will tell you they can ride14:51a horse. And it turns out that you if14:53you ask all your your potential cast14:55members if they get claustrophobic, no14:57one will say that they get14:58claustrophobic and then you find out15:00later. And some of them loved it and15:02really leaned into it and some of them15:04were terrified. But I mean, you know, we15:05did take some heat on that for putting15:07people into a high pressure situation15:09and we did. We had challenges. I just15:12thought, hey guys, we're all going to15:13understand the challenge and we're all15:14going to go into this together. And what15:17you find out is that some people are a15:19little closer to that line of stress15:21than than you would want. I wouldn't do15:23that again. I wouldn't put people under15:24that kind of pressure, you know, to use15:27a water metaphor. But, you know, I was15:29young and kind of crazy and and I just15:31assumed everybody else was young and15:33crazy, too.15:46What the hell? We just lost all the top15:48side feeds.15:49>> But it was all done safely. That's the15:51thing I would stress. We never had any15:53incidents. We never had any accidents.15:55We had safety divers assigned to every15:57single actor. I could account for the15:59actual fact of them being safe. I can't16:03account for how they felt. And I think16:05I've learned from that experience to be16:07very careful about the warning signs16:10that that are between the lines. The16:12director has to be very attuned to the16:15psychological state of the actors16:17because there's a point where they can16:19use it and use it to to play through and16:22to deliver something and there's a point16:24where it's actually a little bit too16:26much and you've got to know where that16:28line is and it's different for every16:30single actor, you know, and that's16:32that's part of the task. It's not about16:34coaching somebody to do something. It's16:36about trying to pull somebody back. I16:38got to do my own stunt. I got to do16:39that. It's like no, it's not safe. not16:41safe for you to do it. It's safe for a16:42trained stunt professional to do it. And16:44that's why we have the system that we16:46have. You know, our unsung heroes16:48obviously are the stunt players. Mary16:51Elizabeth, Master Antonio had to do a16:53solo scene where she walks across the16:55bottom of the ocean. She goes out to the16:56edge of this cliff and this alien16:59machine arrives. That's beautiful and17:01she had to act this kind of beautifific17:05experience where meanwhile she's scared17:07to death, you know? I mean, she did it17:09very well. She's super professional. And17:11then there are scenes that have a a a17:13difficulty level dramatically.17:16And I think the scene where they figure17:18out that the only way for them both to17:20survive is for her to drown and him to17:23swim her back and revive her.17:25>> I drown and you told me back to the rig.17:27>> No. No.17:28>> Go in too deep. I have my blood will go17:31like ice water. My body systems will17:33slow down. They won't stop. And those17:35two scenes as a couplet, the drowning17:38and the revival, were definitely the17:40most challenging dramatic scenes I'd17:43ever done.17:44>> FIGHT, [screaming] FIGHT, FIGHT.17:47>> I'd safely say for those two actors,17:50probably the most challenging thing17:51they'd had to work through. Terminator17:542: Judgement Day. We'll set the way back17:57machine to 1990. So now I've gone18:00through, you know, the Terminator film18:03almost uh seven years earlier created18:05that. I get a call from the guys at18:08Carol Co. that have bought the rights18:11and do you want to make the film? And I18:13said, well, you know, I don't know. And18:15they said, we'll give you $6 million. I18:17said, you have my attention.18:21What do you want? I said, I really want18:24Linda in the film. And I said, have you18:27approached her? No. I said, "All right,18:29well, let me let me approach her because18:30I need to know if she's in or out before18:33I can even write a script. I don't want18:34to write a script for her and have a18:36repeat of the Sigourney experience where18:38I've got this great script ready to go18:39and the actress is not not signed." So,18:42I went to Linda. I think I flew18:44someplace. She would make a film in18:46North Carolina or something. We had18:47dinner. She was pregnant at the time. I18:50said, "All right, we're we're gonna make18:52a Terminator movie." She said, "I have18:55one thing that I want." And I said,18:57"Okay, I want to be crazy."18:59>> I just sat here and told you that your19:01son is missing,19:03that the foster parents have been19:04murdered.19:06We know this guy's involved.19:09Doesn't that mean anything to you? Don't19:11you care?19:13>> Her hypothesis was that what she had19:15been through traumatically and her19:16vision of the future had basically19:18driven her nuts. We eventually modified19:21that so that she wasn't she was on the19:23edge, but she wasn't really crazy. But19:25we don't know until partway through the19:27film where she goes to shoot the guy and19:29try to unwind the future and she can't19:31do it. So her moral compass is still19:34intact no matter that in that moment she19:36knows she might be consigning 4 billion19:39people to their deaths. So you know we19:42work together collaboratively put her in19:43a mental institution because of things19:45she had done. But I wanted to see that19:47even though she definitely was a victim19:50of trauma, she actually was rather19:52coldly calculating and only cared about19:54one thing, which was protecting her son.19:57And also the burden that she bears of20:00knowing what the future will be if she20:02can't do anything to prevent it and what20:04that drives her to. We sort of feel for20:07her son John when she's so mission20:10focused that she forgets to actually20:12love him in a way that he can process.20:14and she's a very different character20:16when she's introduced. And we have to20:18fill in that arc in our minds. You know,20:21how could a person change that much? And20:23we see we can sort of almost off camera20:26feel all the forces and all the trauma20:28that were on her to produce that result.20:31And I got to give Linda credit for that.20:33That's what she wanted. You know, she20:35wanted to do something different. And we20:37played with all that stuff. if we knew20:38what we were doing. Because in my mind,20:40the Terminator movies were always about20:42our dehumanization of oursel. It's not20:45about robots from the future. It's about20:47how we dehumanize ourselves, how we lose20:50our empathy, how a psychologist or a20:52policeman or a soldier can lose their20:54humanity, you know, and she becomes the20:57Terminator of that movie. The20:59Terminator, Arnold's character,21:01humanizes.21:02She has become an inhuman killing21:06machine except at that brink she steps21:09back and from then she begins to kind of21:11her journey back to humanization and to21:14being able to feel and express love and21:16all that. So there's a whole other21:17subtext going on underneath this kind of21:20rapid fire roller coaster ride of of an21:23action film. The fact that that fired on21:25all those different cylinders, it was21:27about family in a crazy way. But somehow21:30all my movies are love stories and21:33sometimes it's a parent child love. In21:35that case it was mother son. It was21:37surrogate father son.21:41[screaming]21:45>> I had done a lot of research on on21:47nuclear weapon effects and what would21:49happen if you actually set one off over21:51a city or what the experience of that21:53would be like however briefly. And it's21:55very accurate. In fact, I got a letter21:58from what they call the the blast gurus22:01at uh it was actually Sandia Lab which22:04had emerged out of Los Alamos as one of22:06the main nuclear centers in the US and22:09they were highly complimentary about how22:10I got it exactly right. Yes, it will it22:13will flash burn all your flesh to ash22:15and then the blast wave will knock all22:17the ash off your bones. Wow, that's22:19great guys. Thanks for the props, you22:22know, but it's sobering to realize the22:25world that that we were living in. And22:27when when that film was written in 1990,22:31we were just past the peak of nuclear22:34weapons deployment in the world. There22:36were something like 70 or 80,00022:40nuclear warheads, any one of which would22:42have done what we showed in that movie.22:44We're currently down to a nice and cozy22:4612,000 warheads worldwide. and we're in22:49an even more precarious geopolitical22:51situation today. So, it's as relevant22:53now as it as it was then. And of course,22:56the AI messaging across those two films,22:59that part of it was a bit precient23:00because now we're actually talking about23:02real um artificial super intelligence23:05and what that might mean for us as human23:07beings. It's actually coming true kind23:09of as we speak and people are are23:12spending billions to will this into23:14existence.23:20When the T-1000 is revealed as this23:23fluid being, I think it's one of the23:26cooler reveals. He's absolutely23:27terrifying, but in a very different way23:30than Arnold's character. The idea was23:32there. It was almost like an east west23:34duality kind of thing. Arnold is highly23:37mechanistic and and he's very fluid and23:40very kind of iikido like literally fluid23:43but his fighting style was to merge and23:45to use the force of the enemy against23:48him and that sort of thing. We feel a23:50sense of ominousness around him but we23:52don't really know what he truly is and23:54it was only just possible to do. We had23:57done the water tentacle scene in the24:00abyss and that was my first exposure to24:02computerenerated characters and I24:05remember I called up Dennis Mirren at24:06ILM when I started writing Terminator 224:09and I said Dennis I want to do a guy24:12who's liquid chrome or liquid mercury.24:15Can we do it? He said maybe.24:19He said how many shots are we talking24:21about? I said all right we'll try to24:22limit it. I'll limit it in the24:23storytelling. We eventually wound up24:25with 42 shots24:27and it took a year and it was very very24:30challenging to get the very last shots24:32done. It took everything we had to do24:34those 42 shots. Cut to this year. We're24:38just finishing up Avatar 3 with 3,500 CG24:43shots where we're not only doing the24:45characters in CG, we're doing the24:47animals in CG. We're doing every blade24:49of grass, every leaf in the forest,24:51every tree, everything all in CG, you24:53know. So that's a huge leap across, you24:56know, three three plus decades.24:58>> Let me go.25:04>> Why the hell did you do that?25:06>> Because you told me to.25:07>> The story is really told through John's25:09perspective, I think, more than any25:11other character. As much as we think of25:13Sarah, it's John's story from beginning25:15to end. And it's a lot of weight to25:19carry for a kid who is, you know, 1025:21years old. I knew that you had to be25:23very careful and very sensitive about25:26about the kid and what their25:28psychological experience was going to25:30be. And um I had this amazing casting25:34director, Mali Finn, and she went out25:37and she went to all the agencies and we25:38found all the kids that age and they all25:40had mostly done commercials and they25:42were these kind of little smiling25:43robots, you know, because that's what25:45everybody wanted. So Malie said, "I I25:47got to find somebody who's a a darker,25:49you know, just has got something going25:51on in their life, you know, that they25:53can draw upon." And so she was at a a25:56Boys and Girls Club out, I think, in25:58like Pomona or some place like that. She26:00would beat the bushes. She'd really go26:02go long on this. She saw this kid, Eddie26:05Furlong, and he was just kind of26:07socilally kind of staring at her like,26:09"What?" He called her frogface. So what26:13are you looking at, frogface? And Malie26:16said, "Have you ever done any acting?"26:19He said, "No." "Have you ever been on26:22camera?" "My dad films our birthdays."26:27She said, "Would you like to maybe be in26:29a movie? Would you know?" We just worked26:31with him. Ally really was great. And she26:33worked with him and then I worked with26:34him and we started to see that there was26:36this kind of smoldering effect there.26:39And he had this haircut where his bangs26:41just hit his eyes. And I said, Eddie,26:43can you just kind of push that over a26:45little bit just so I can see one eye?26:47And that's how we shot him. But he could26:49also be quite joyful and and fun in the26:52role and in and in real life. And of26:54course, he bonded with Arnold. Arnold26:56became his dad cuz Eddie had dad issues.26:58You know, his dad had split and he was27:01living with his uncle and fractured27:03family and he was able to use all and27:06you sense a longing in him for a father.27:09the character never had a father and27:11Eddie never had a father, you know, and27:13you sense that in him and he and Arnold27:16just hit it off and then, you know, the27:18rest is history. It all it all worked.27:21True lies.27:24You know, Arnold and I had worked27:25together now a couple times. We'd gotten27:26to be friends. We'd ride motorcycles27:28together. I was part of his social27:31circle. He was part of mine. Um,27:34and Arnold called me up one day and27:37said, "I've got this story." So, we sat27:40and watched this film together called27:41Ltoal, a little French film, fun romp.27:46And when it was done, I turned to him27:47and I said, "I see what you see in this27:50guy. He's married. He's a family man.27:53That binds him to a kind of reality that27:56is only half of his reality. The other27:58half of his reality is he's this28:00extraordinary character, this28:02extraordinary guy.28:03>> Sir, may I see your invitation, please?28:07>> Sure. Here's my invitation.28:15>> And I thought, well, that's kind of him,28:17right? You know, he's Mr. Universe28:20multiple times. He's this movie star,28:22but he's got kids. I got it instantly.28:24We went after the rights and28:27we just made it. We didn't even think28:29about it twice. What was interesting28:31about it was finding his Helen, his28:35counterpart in that movie. First person28:37that came to mind was Jamie Lee Curtis.28:40So obvious in retrospect, right? She28:42crushed it. But Arnold said, "I don't28:45think so." Actually, I didn't hear it28:46from him. I I I heard it from his agent,28:49Lou. Pit, the guy that got fired for not28:51taking Terminator that got rehired the28:53next day. I mean, Arnold is always28:54loyal, very loyal to everybody, right?28:56Sort of. And um Lou said, "Arnold28:58doesn't want Jamie." Arnold didn't tell29:00me himself, you know, he doesn't want29:02Jamie. I said, "Why does why doesn't he29:04want Jamie? She's great. She's too29:06beautiful. I don't buy her as a as a29:09housewife." So, now I start seeing every29:11actress of that of that age that could29:14conceivably play Helen. Met a lot of29:17great actresses, you know, narrowed it29:20down to a couple. did screen tests,29:23full-on screen tests, and I was in29:26Washington scouting locations, and I got29:29a tape that I told them to go find a29:31tape of um of one of Jaime's movies. Uh29:35I can't remember which one. And uh they29:37sent it to me and 3:00 in the morning29:40after a long day of location scouting, I29:41popped the tape in, and I'm thinking,29:44"She's Helen. Come on." So I flew back29:47to LA. Arnold, what are you doing? Can29:49you come over? And you know, he's just29:51across town in Venice. So he comes over.29:53I'll never forget. He's wearing an29:55orange t-shirt and giant loud purple29:57board shorts down past his knees with29:59these giant calves, right? And he goes,30:02"Yeah, what is it?" And I said, "How30:04much do you trust me?" He goes, "I trust30:07you completely. You know that." I said,30:08"No, this is for real. How much do you30:12trust me?" And she sort of realized it30:14was a talk, right? He leans forward and30:16he said,30:18"We've made two movies together. I trust30:21you completely." I said, "Completely?"30:24He said, "Completely." I said, "Okay,30:25it's Jamie." And he said, "Okay."30:29Got up, shook my hand, and walked out.30:31It was a bit frosty, right? But it was30:33cool. He he accepted it. And then he30:35worked with her for the first few days,30:38and she just became Helen. And he came30:40up to me after three days of shooting30:41and said, "I was wrong. You were right.30:44She's amazing. But there's a kicker to30:46that story, which is that Jaime had30:48gotten her agent to get a deal where30:51they asked for her above the title with30:53Arnold in the credits. And um I said,30:57"He's never going to agree to that." And30:59the agent said, "I'll we'll be satisfied31:02if you ask him in post-prouction when31:04you're mixing with best efforts if31:07that's a possibility." So, I call a part31:09and I say, "All right, you don't have to31:12agree to this, but I have to ask you,31:15you know, would you consider would you31:18consider putting, you know, Jaime's name31:20above the title with you?" There's a31:22long silence, and he says, "Jamie31:25is spectacular in the movie. It's the31:28movie it is because of her, and I'm31:31honored to have her above the title with31:33me."31:33>> My condolences to the widow.31:43It's all that sort of marriage thread31:44running through it. It's like Ed Harris31:46in the abyss almost having his fingers31:48chopped off, but the titanium wedding31:50ring stops the watertight door and saves31:51his life. It's the same kind of motif,31:54right? Jaime just inhabited that31:56character and she was such a blast to31:57work with. The whole thing about her31:58being in the corridor or she took the32:00stupid frill off and took it off the32:02shoulders and all of a sudden she's in32:04this little tight black cocktail dress32:06with her hair slick back and it's like32:08no you didn't. You just made yourself32:11like, you know, a cover model in 3532:14seconds. She and I worked all that out32:16together, which basically means she32:17worked it out and I shot it.32:20Titanic.32:22Well, Titanic had fascinated me when I32:25when I was writing The Abyss. They had32:27just found Titanic and they were imaging32:30it with little robotics, right? Uh,32:32ROVs. So, I got to know Robert Ballard.32:35I got to see the ROVs. I got to fly32:37them, things like that. So, it was all32:38kind of there in my mind. And I was32:40fascinated by the deep ocean. And they32:42had made an IMAX film where they went32:44down and and filmed Titanic. It's called32:46Titanica. And I thought, if those guys32:48can go down there and film Titanic for32:50real for a a relatively small $4 million32:53film for a big Hollywood movie, I can do32:55it, too. So, I can go dive Titanic. It32:58was that simple. I just wanted to go33:00dive Titanic. And then, all right, I33:02might have to write a story, you know, I33:04might have to get some actors and33:06actually make the movie, but I was more33:07interested in in diving the wreck. So, I33:10go to 20th Century Fox, Peter Chan's33:12office. Here's how I pitch it. There's a33:14beautiful book called The Illustrated33:16History of Titanic. It's done by an33:17artist named Ken Marshall. The center33:20fold and double truck painting is about33:23this wide and it's the ship angled down33:26into the water. All the lifeboats33:28leaving, the rockets going off, the33:30lights of the port holes glittering33:32golden in the water, everybody on the33:34decks waiting to leave. It's the the33:36beautiful majestic image, right? I walk33:38into Chern's office. I pop the book open33:40to the to the centerfold. I shove it in33:42front of his face and I go, "Romeo and33:44Juliet on that." Five words. Just insert33:48$120 million right here. Please33:52>> don't do it.33:54>> Stay back.33:56Don't come any closer.33:59>> Come on. Just give me your hand. I'll34:01pull you back over.34:02>> No. Stay where you are.34:04>> I mean it.34:05>> If you look back on it and you34:07synthesize it all down, every movie's34:09ultimate fate is predicated on a few key34:12decisions, usually made in34:14pre-production and usually around34:16casting. So Leonardo and Kate, boom, on34:19Titanic. It's it's almost as simple as34:21my pitch to churn it. It's just who's34:23Romeo and who's Juliet. So once we had34:25Titanic and my will to make it look real34:28and all the effects experience that I34:30had and all the practical shooting34:32experience that I had, we had one corner34:36of that. Now we needed our our Romeo and34:38we needed our Juliet. Kate came along. I34:40cast Kate very quickly and I was34:42skeptical about her because she had only34:44done historical characters. Her nickname34:47at that time, even as a a dewy young34:49actress of 19, was corset Kate. And I34:53thought, why would I cast corset Kate in34:55a movie about a corseted girl, you know?34:58I mean, that was the whole fundamental34:59idea that she's restricted by society.35:01Why would I cast corset Kate? Lazy35:04casting. I meet her. It's like, no, it's35:05her. It's [laughter] her. It was simple.35:08Now, Kate tells the story slightly35:10differently that she lobbied for the35:12part and she sent me a rose and said,35:14"I'm your rose." And it's like, "That's35:17all true, but I'd already made up my35:19mind. We just hadn't made the deal yet."35:21It is nice when an actor really wants35:22the part. I had the opposite experience35:24with Leonardo. He didn't want to do it.35:26He knew he should. Everybody told him he35:27should do it, you know, career move. He35:29didn't want to do it. It took me, I35:31don't know, five weeks working with him,35:32probably once a week to drill down to35:34what he didn't like about it. And the35:37answer was very simple. He didn't think35:39it was challenging enough. He didn't35:40want to just be handsome young Leo. And35:42I said, 'It's not about you being35:44handsome young Leo, even though you're35:45handsome and you're young. I said, 'It's35:47about holding the center when you don't35:49have all those props. I said, those35:51things are props. And and ultimately,35:53that's the easy path. The hard path is35:56to do what a Jimmy Stewart would do,35:59which is be the handsome guy in the36:01center and hold the audience riveted36:03attention the entire time without all36:06that stuff. And you know when he signed36:08to do the movie when I told him he36:10wasn't ready to do it. I said, "You're36:11not ready to do this film." Now, I'm36:13going way out on a limb cuz I knew I36:15really wanted him, right? But that's36:17when he did it. when he when he realized36:19how difficult it was and it was then he36:22leaned in and he he he brought36:24everything that he that he gives to a36:26film and he was amazing. He was36:27incandescent. She was, you know, and and36:30the rest is history. It's almost when36:32you think back on it, all of the36:34physical trials and tribulations, the36:36gigantic set, the gigantic lighting36:39setups, all the water, all the things36:40that made it difficult, it all36:42crystallizes down to those early36:44decisions. And everything else is all36:46just details. I put the Jack and Rose36:48story in the foreground, but then36:50immediately behind them, the backup36:52singers are all of the real people who36:54are on that ship and their tragic36:56stories as well. And then beyond that is36:58just the scope and the pageantry, you37:00know, and I don't think I would have37:01made a film like Titanic if I hadn't37:03fallen in love with, you know, David37:05Lean spectacles. For me, the one that37:08was the most influential was Dr. Jivago,37:10which is a love story against a vast37:12canvas of a huge event that was tragic37:15for many people. So using that as a37:17guide, you know, Titanic kind of fell37:20into place in a way. Very difficult film37:23to make, very satisfying at the end of37:25the day because it worked.37:29Avatar37:31started as an answer to a problem. The37:34problem was I had I had created a new37:37company called Digital Domain. It was37:39the first all digital visual effects37:41company. And our goal was to create new37:44technology around CG characters and37:47creatures and environments and all that37:49sort of thing. It was all new37:50technology. We wanted to aggregate all37:52the people that were doing it in one37:54place and create a whole new way of37:56making movies. And I wanted a story that37:59could drive that. So in 1995, I wrote38:02Avatar. It was an 80page treatment and38:05it had basically all the stuff that's in38:06the movie and a whole bunch of stuff38:07besides. And I was told that it it was38:10premature. We couldn't do all that stuff38:12yet. We were We knew what we wanted to38:14do, but we weren't there yet. In early38:162005, I was about to make a film called38:18Alita: Battle Angel. I really wanted to38:21do it, and it involved a lot of CG,38:23facial, especially facial performance.38:25So, the two films would be done in a38:26very similar way. I was still struggling38:28with the script on Alita. So, I took out38:32this old story and I reread it. I38:34thought, "This is a pretty damn good38:35story. we should do this or we should at38:38least start developing it. Hired some38:41artists, started breaking it down, got38:43some money from from Fox to go through38:45development. We shot a we shot a38:47prototype using the performance capture38:50techniques, including one that was brand38:51new that that I had proposed, which is38:54image- based, meaning you mount a video38:57camera on a little boom on a head rig,39:00and you video the actor's face, and then39:02from that, you extract the performance39:03and apply it to the CG character. And39:06then we used conventional motion capture39:07for the rest of the body. That was39:09already a technology that was available.39:20So we're merging two technologies. I39:22wrote the script. We designed39:23everything. Put together the best39:24creature designers and and uh layout39:27environment designers. And it just took39:30on this momentum. And and it was that39:32was the start of a what became a39:34four-year journey. I think Zoe was the39:36first person cast. She was brought to me39:38by Mlly Finn, the casting director that39:40had cast Terminator True Lies and39:42Titanic. And so we flew Zoe in and I39:45cast her right away after I met her and39:47auditioned with her and worked with her39:49a little bit. Just such a wonderful39:51person as a human being, but she had39:52that grace and a beauty that was quite39:54singular and she had a grace and39:56movement. She was classically trained39:58ballet dancer and she'd done a lot of40:00other kinds of dance as well. So, I knew40:02she could learn the Na'vi way of40:04physically being, which we hadn't even40:06worked out yet, but we worked it out40:07with her and with some some movement40:10specialists. And then I was looking for40:11my Jake, obviously. The other the other40:14actors, you know, we found in a kind of40:16a conventional way. And there were there40:19were three young actors that were really40:21not nowhere kind of in their career at40:24the time. All three of them went on to40:25be movie stars. I had to choose between40:27them and I I did a series of screen40:30tests. First, it was sort of a straight40:31audition. Then then I set up real screen40:33tests in sets. Like there was a lab set40:36and there was a there was a jungle set40:39and Zoe came in and read with everybody40:41or tested with everybody cuz she was now40:44our baseline. And Sam was the one I kept40:46going back to. And the studio disagreed.40:48The Fox guys like the other guys better.40:50I, you know, I'll say I'll say one of40:52them was Channing Tatum. So it's like,40:54okay, Channing did well. [laughter] You40:56know, we're all we're all good with40:57Channing Tatum, right? You know it could40:59have been Channing Tatum.41:00>> We will show the sky people.41:01>> So today we do it41:02>> that they cannot take whatever they want41:05>> for city41:06>> and that this41:08>> this is our land.41:12>> That guy I would follow into battle.41:14That guy I would follow into hell. He he41:17spoke to me in a in a a way that41:20resonated. And you know he had this41:21thick Australian accent. We had to work41:23with that. And none of these actors had41:25done performance capture and they were41:27all kind of like is this really gonna be41:29anything? I'll never forget screening41:32the film for the cast and they were41:34like,41:36you know, Zoe was curled up in her seat41:38like this. Their eyes were wide open and41:40they were just riveted the whole time41:41because they saw their work. They saw41:44themselves in the characters. I think41:46they might have been a little bit41:47skeptical up until then. I'd showed them41:49little bits along the way, but until41:51they saw it all together, I don't think41:53they realized what we had done.41:55Meanwhile, I had lived with it through41:56the whole thing, you know, 2500 shots or42:00whatever it was down to the minutest42:02detail, opining every day on every blade42:05of grass and every bit of lighting and42:07all that. So, you know, for me it was,42:09you know, but the actors were like,42:11"Holy crap, what did we just do?"42:14Avatar the way I wanted. We had two42:18enormous challenges on the way of water42:21and one of them was the obvious one the42:23water and the other one was getting to a42:26much higher level of refinement of42:28preserving the actor's performance as42:30much as Avatar itself the first film was42:33a success. I always felt like we didn't42:35quite get to the level that I wanted and42:37if we were going to commit to doing two42:39more which was the commitment actually42:41four more but you know it was really42:44what was in front of me was two films to42:46be shot as a kind of conjoined42:49production. So we spent a lot of money42:50on R&D with that facial pipeline to make42:53sure that every single molecule of what42:55the actors did would be preserved. every42:57nuance, every glance, every tiny little42:59bit of eye movement, the tendons in the43:01in the throat, the the swallowing, the43:03breathing, everything. You have to43:05capture it and you have to bottle it and43:06you have to protect it down through that43:08pipeline. So, we spent we spent three43:11years and I don't know $40 million43:14perfecting that before we ever worked43:17with the actors. I wrote four scripts,43:19you know, two through through five. And43:22then we just jumped into it in in uh43:24September of 17. We just jumped back43:27into it and it was like the family43:29coming back together.43:30>> Happiness is simple.43:33But who would have thought a jarhead43:34like me could crack the code?43:46>> And it got interesting because in the43:47meantime, Sam and Zoe had become parents43:50themselves. So now they're starting to43:52relate to their characters in a very43:53different way. is a 15-year time jump.43:56They're relating to these young actors43:57as the kids now that they've had their44:00own kids and they understand what that44:02protective instinct is and they44:03understand what it means, how it44:04profoundly changes your life. You know,44:06I always said it was a family story, but44:08it's a little bit dangerous saying it's44:09a family story from Disney and you think44:12a thing, but it's not. It's a it's a44:14it's a it's a family it's a generational44:17family story. It's dramatic, tragic,44:20epic, you know, all of all of those44:23things. It's not it's not all hearts and44:25flowers. All of the family relationships44:27are are sometimes quite strained and and44:30there are some dark dynamics in there as44:32well. But at the center of it is this44:34love and this cohesiveness that binds44:37them together. And I think that as human44:38beings, we all long for that. We don't44:41always accomplish it. Sometimes we do44:43and we don't appreciate it, but I think44:45we all long for it. And ultimately at44:48the bottom of it all, that's what these44:49two movies, Avatar 2 and Avatar 3, are44:52saying. There's a lot else going on too.44:54Themes around colonialism and the44:56environment and extraction industries44:58and all that sort of thing. But to me,45:00at the at the the bottom level,45:02thematically, it's about family. And45:04however we define family, you know,45:06found family, you know, chosen family,45:09biological family, and all of the45:11dynamics and and varants on that theme.45:14spider who's got a kind of surrogate45:16father and Jake, but he's rejected by45:18that family because Nati, you know,45:20basically is kind of a racist around45:22around humans around the sky people that45:25have destroyed her village and her home45:26tree and killed her father and all that.45:28Everybody's got stuff going on. Spider45:30and his incarnation of his biological45:33father, Miles Corage, what does that45:35mean to him? He's a confused young guy,45:3815 years old. Or Jack would say to me,45:40"So, do do I like him or do I not like45:42him?" I said, "I don't know. You have to45:46figure that out." He said, "No, but tell45:48me, Jack, you're figuring that out in45:50your real life. You need to as a car as45:52an actor, your character's figuring that45:54out in his life, so you don't know the45:57answer. So, it's not actable to know the46:00answer." He said, "Yeah, but tell me46:02anyway." [laughter]46:04The other challenge was the water.46:05That's kind of more obvious, right?46:07Technically, nobody had ever done46:09performance capture in water. I wanted46:11Sigourney underwater. I wanted Britain46:13Dalton underwater. I wanted Jack46:14Champion underwater cuz you can't fake46:17that stuff either. And so when you see46:19the film, every time you see a character46:23underwater, they were the actors were46:24underwater or sometimes it was a stunt46:27double or somebody who was a specialist46:29stunt double in underwater performance.46:32You know, maybe for some of the creature46:33riding or some of the more dangerous46:34things, but pretty much they were all46:36down there. So we had to put them Step46:38one, how do you get actors underwater?46:41They got to learn how to hold their46:42breath. Not for like 30 seconds, for46:45like 3, four minutes. Kate Winslett came46:47in and just schooled everybody. I'm46:49sorry. She came in and held her breath46:51after 3 weeks of training for 7 minutes46:53and 15 seconds, beating Tom Cruz's46:56record, I think, you know, when he was46:58in breathold training for one of the47:00Mission Impossible movies. Sigourney, no47:02slouch, at the age of 69 or 70 at the47:06time, held her breath for 6 minutes, 647:09and 1/2 minutes. I think the actors were47:11really loving it because here was47:12something tangible that they could use47:14to prepare. Sigourney had a double47:16challenge, you know, she had to play a47:1715-year-old,47:19you know, as a septtogenarian. That was47:22remarkable. I think for, you know, she47:24she worked all the actors work for about47:2618 months. This isn't like rocking up to47:30a lectturn and in two days doing an47:32entire voice part for a an animated47:34film, Pixar animated film. Everything47:36you see those characters do, they the47:38actors did. It took 18 months to do the47:41two movies. So about nine months of47:43capture for each each film, but it was47:45all intermixed. We'd do a Avatar 2 scene47:48one day and a three scene the next day.47:50Even some stuff on four cuz all the47:52characters jump forward in age about47:54eight years between the end of three and47:57the start of four. So we knew the kids47:59wouldn't be kids anymore when we got48:00back around to shooting those. We don't48:02even know when we're going to shoot48:03those. We got to make some money on48:04three first. But the point that I was48:06trying to make is it's not voicing a48:09character. I see that in print. It48:11drives me nuts. Oh, Sigourney voiced48:13Ciri. Sigourney was Kiri for 18 months.48:16So the volume's got a little black line48:18around it. The volume is where we work.48:19It's the performance capture space. When48:21she crossed that line, she became Curi.48:24But even outside the volume, there was a48:26lightness to her. She she seemed to have48:28gotten younger,48:3020, 30 years younger. She was buoyant.48:33She was effervescent. You know, I think48:35she just tried to live in that space of48:38being open and unproven and vulnerable,48:42all the things that a teenage girl might48:44feel, you know, and I think that's why48:46her character is so relatable as she48:48comes into her power across these two48:51films. And she becomes quite powerful by48:54the end of movie three. You see her48:57struggling with it, her uncertainty, her49:01not understanding what's going on in her49:03body and in her mind, not understanding49:05her place and and it, you know, why49:08she's shunned and not accepted. And, you49:11know, like it's it's it's a typical49:13angsty teen journey just writ large and49:17on another planet and in a in a49:19character that's 8t tall49:21and blue.49:26It was all shot as one big thing and49:28then we went through all the post on on49:30the way of water and then we went49:31through all the post on on fire and ash49:34and that took another three years49:36because Avatar movies are shot twice.49:39You shoot them with the actors and then49:41you do all the camera and the lighting49:43and the camera angles and all the49:45coverage and everything separately. It49:47takes a little bit to get your head49:48wrapped around it, but we uncouple49:50performance acting from cinematography.49:54Most movies do it all at once, right?49:56You're acting in front of a camera,49:57they're lighting you, and you got to49:59make a shot. We don't make shots. We50:02make performances, and then we make the50:04shots later, and the actors are all off50:06doing other movies or vacationing.50:13>> [music]50:17>> I shoot everything. I shoot all the50:19virtual cameras. I also shoot all the50:20live action stuff myself, handholding50:23or, you know, on a remote head, that50:25sort of thing. Although, in both of50:27these movies, I relied a lot on second50:29unit directors as well to do some of the50:31virtual camera work and some of the live50:32action stunt work and things like that,50:34just because of schedule. It sounds like50:36a very lavish, luxurious schedule to50:38have three years to finish a movie, but50:40trust me, you use every second of it.50:42Both of those films had about 3,50050:44shots and every single one of them was a50:46VFX shot that had to be at the highest50:49possible bar because you had to believe50:51it and you had to believe the50:52characters. So, the facial performance,50:53the hair, the water, all of the things50:56that are what we call Sims, right? So,50:59hair blowing in the wind is a sim. uh51:02somebody stepping out of the water is a51:04physics-based fluid dynamic simulation51:07of what water would do if that character51:09was stepping out of the water. So the51:10weird thing is we actually had a51:12character stepping out of the water, but51:13we can only capture the character, we51:15can't capture the water. So then we have51:17to do a sim to recreate the water after51:21the fact. So it's not photography. It's51:23a whole different path, but it gets you51:25to what looks like photography. Kind of51:28nuts, right? If we hadn't made so much51:30damn money with the first film, we'd51:31never be doing this. I mean, it's51:32insane. That's my final word on the51:34subject.51:38[music] For the most part, I get excited51:41enough to make a movie and commit a year51:43or more of my life to a subject that I51:45think I will learn from. Whether that's51:48craft I need to learn or whether it's a51:51subject I I want to learn. And [music]51:53sometimes, you know, there might be some51:55technical challenges in order to create51:58the imagery. [music] And I think that52:00comes from maybe feeling slightly52:03inadequate as a as a filmmaker. Oh, I52:06can't compete with with those52:08filmmakers. But I think if I if I can52:10find a new way to create some imagery52:12that nobody else can [music] do, then52:15then I've brought value. You know, I52:17think that probably was a motivator back52:19in the day. But I'm just fascinated by52:21any kind of challenge. I just like52:23challenges, [music] you know. I like to52:25challenge myself and I don't want to do52:27anything particularly that I've done52:29before.
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