Transcript of The New Startup Go-To-Market Playbook
Burkland
0:01Welcome to Startup Success, the podcast0:04for startup founders and investors. Here0:06you'll find stories of success from0:07others in the trenches as they work to0:09scale some of the fastest growing0:11startups in the world. Stories that will0:13help you in your own journey. Startup0:15success starts now.0:18>> Marina, it's great to have you on the0:20show. Thank you for being here.0:22>> Yeah, thank you so much for having me.0:24>> So, I think it would be helpful. you0:26have a great background. If you wouldn't0:28mind walking us through your experience0:32and then if you can share how it led to0:34the founding of the company advice.0:36>> Yeah, I mean you know everyone's0:40founding origin story um can be long if0:44you allow it to be. Um you know I I I0:48went to Lehi University for my0:50undergrad. I thought I was pre-law. I I0:54ended up finding myself in a marketing0:55consulting role um at Mastercard.0:58>> And uh so I started my career in1:01corporate and then right after corporate1:03I jumped into the world of startups1:05>> at that time. Not to age myself too1:08terribly but like startups were just1:10like not part of like everyday1:11vernacular at least now in the east1:12coast. Um, and so, you know, to my1:17immigrant parents, I think that they1:19were like shocked and horrified that I1:21was leaving like a really nice corporate1:23job to take a leap into the unknown.1:26However, um, I just love the space so1:28much and I really loved building in it.1:30And I've been marketing in some capacity1:34in this space uh, ever since. Uh, I1:38actually went back and I got an1:39engineering degree so that I could1:41better connect the dots between1:43product and edge to market facing1:46language and market facing audiences. So1:49I'm fully invested in the space. Um and1:52so after having a career in various1:55leadership roles at various uh startups1:58mostly pretty technical highly regulated2:01industries um from insur techch to2:03health tech. Um I met my partner at my2:06last job. Um we work together really2:09well to bring that brand and that2:11product to life and so we spun out the2:13company advice and we have been in2:16business now for a few years and we2:17consult lots of startups on their go to2:21market their brand their narrative um2:25product strategy. So we work with a lot2:29of different types of founders and um2:32verticals and just really love what we2:35do. We love getting in on the ground2:36level and making a real difference and2:39applying a playbook that is very2:42efficient for founders to you know start2:45getting market signal so that they can2:47start making really smart choices about2:48their business.2:50>> That's so great because I I interact2:52with a lot of founders and they know a2:54lot about their product,2:57>> their particular market, but not so much2:59about marketing and some of the other3:01things. And so when they can leverage3:03fractional help in this way, I think3:05it's terrific.3:06>> And then I'm super impressed3:09>> that you got an engineering degree3:10because lots of times there's a3:12disconnect between marketing and3:14engineering that3:16>> right3:16>> happens a lot in startup culture. So you3:20must be able to really help with that.3:22>> I think you really need that connective3:25tissue and someone who can translate3:27engineering speak into market speak. And3:30that's definitely my secret sauce. It's3:31definitely my superpower. Um, you know,3:34ever since I was little, my dad is a PhD3:37engineer. And I was I was looking over3:40his slide decks and his presentations3:42and proposals and making sure that they,3:44you know, weren't too in the weeds. And3:47so I've always I think I've just always3:49had that kind of ability to to be that3:52translation layer. So I'm really happy3:54to be able to do that, you know, as a3:56living.3:57>> For sure. That is a superpower. How3:59beneficial for your clients? That's4:01great. So, let's kind of get into it by4:06starting with go to market. It's really4:09changed, right? It's just it's4:12fundamentally shifted. If you wouldn't4:14mind kind of walking us through how it's4:16shifted and and where it kind of stands4:19today.4:20>> Yeah, definitely. Um, you know, and like4:23just to take a step back in terms of4:25like how I think about or talk about go4:27to market. Go to market is an4:29operational strategy. It's not just a4:31thing that happens on like the marketing4:33and sales side. It's truly like an4:36entire operational strategy that the4:38company as a whole all hands on deck4:40need to be involved to launch a product4:42to reach your target customers and4:45ultimately to win sales. Um and so I4:48think that in a conventional go to4:50market there's like a pass like a4:52handoff that happens between departments4:54with competing KPIs competing um you4:57know systems and just like their own5:00different operational um uh way of doing5:03things and just like has a has like a5:06very linear path traditionally. You5:08build an MVP, you blast it out with a5:11big PR launch, you spend a lot of money5:15on cold outbound, you know, whether5:17that's through advertising, through your5:19sales reps, through whatever systems5:21that you are leveraging. Um, you write5:26SEO bait content because you know that5:29content is important. So, you start5:30putting stuff on the website. you may or5:33may not hit your target ARR that kind5:36of, you know, shows in your mind PMF.5:40Um, and you keep you keep you keep5:43growing by hiring more sales reps to5:47capitalize on like this motion and then5:49you have to keep generating more5:51marketing leads to feed this hungry army5:54of sales reps and then ultimately you5:56have to raise more money so you can5:58continue doing all of this stuff. And5:59that's kind of like the ultimate6:01external signal that you're doing well.6:04Um, and I think that a lot of that has6:06been changing. Right now, we're in an6:08environment where capital is much more6:10constrained than it used to be. There's6:12so much tooling out there and there's so6:14much more uh operational rigor that's6:17expected out of companies earlier in6:19their life cycle. So things that used to6:22pass to be a series A company are no6:24longer passing. you have to start6:26demonstrating a certain level of6:28sophistication, operational6:29sophistication earlier on. And so, um,6:32the new go to market is really it's it's6:35it's five things at a high level that I6:38can walk you through really quickly. Um,6:40one, start narrow, not loud. And by6:43that, I mean, you want to start you want6:45to build a minimum remarkable product,6:47not necessarily a minimum viable6:50product. Now, with all of this like6:52tooling that's out there, there's Vibe6:54coding, uh, a lot of a lot of tooling6:56has commoditized building things and6:58what you need to build needs to be truly7:00remarkable and then be prepared to7:02iterate on that.7:04>> Um, and in terms of storytelling instead7:07of like a big splashy PR, you know,7:10push, um, you really want to lead with7:12the product and produce effective7:14storytelling that is attracting the7:16right audience. Not everyone, but the7:18right people. And the way you know that7:20you're doing a good job about with this7:22is that you the right people are saying7:25yes and the wrong people are saying no7:27quickly. So you don't you're not7:29clogging clogging the funnel and7:30clogging your own internal teams with7:33conversations that are not are never7:35going to go anywhere.7:36>> Okay.7:36>> Um7:37>> I think um also PMF is now proven more7:42so with strong retention and word of7:45mouth as opposed to just reach. Um, and7:49you can grow a really strong operations7:52and expediting function in your startup,7:56in your company that's able to quickly7:58test and grow potential channels as8:00opposed to having a big laborious8:02movement in one direction toward one8:05target. Um, really find figure out who8:08the right customers are, like who who8:11are like the real champions who love8:12your product.8:14um and find out what it is that they8:17love about you and how to how to create8:21how to find more of that similar8:23audience which feel sounds obvious but8:25it isn't always obvious when founders8:28are in the mindset that their solution8:29can be so many things to so many people8:32>> um by practicing this discipline of8:35thinking a little bit more narrowly I8:37think that you'll find more success in8:38the current market8:39>> I don't think that's obvious because8:42otherwise your funnel gets that's filled8:44with people that are never going to8:46convert, right? So, I think8:47>> they're never going to convert, right?8:49>> There's always going to be feature8:51requests. Your road map is never going8:53to be able to actually move forward8:55because you're always going to be bogged8:57down by oneoff requests,8:59>> by oneoff customer types that you're9:01never going to be able to replicate. Um,9:03and that's a huge time and resource suck9:07for stage companies. And a lot of9:10firsttime founders just think oh the9:12more the better without thinking about9:14that.9:14>> Correct. Exactly.9:16>> Um the fourth thing is aligning the9:19teams on around shared metrics. Um I9:23really always almost always see a lot of9:25misalignment on shared KPIs across the9:28company. I think it's really important9:30where it pertains to go to market that9:32you desilo the company as much as9:34possible um and make sure that there's a9:36unified front that's completely laser9:39focused on the target customer.9:42And then the last piece is um you can9:45stay capital efficient in a lot of ways9:47through automation through AI. There's9:49really no excuses in this current day9:50and age. I think it's really important9:53that instead of thinking about how to9:54raise the next round um to figure out in9:58fact how to maintain cap capital10:01optionality10:03um this is how you're going to control10:04your destiny and and ultimately I think10:09hot take10:12the less board members you have in the10:14room like the better off you will be um10:16>> right10:16>> mental healthwise. So um10:20um so I think that by maintaining cop10:23capital optionality um and not being so10:26reliant obviously on um capital raises I10:29think that you will be um better off10:32your company will be better off and what10:33you're building will be better off.10:35>> Yes. And you'll you'll get to preserve10:37some more equity too selfishly. So, I10:40like something that you said a a few10:42times about go to market and that's the10:45shared KPIs10:47and that it's a companywide10:50operational strategy because the10:52startups that I've been a part of that10:55have failed. That was the problem.10:58>> You know, marketing and sales had KPIs11:00and engineering and product had11:02different ones and the two conflicted11:06and couldn't keep up with each other,11:07>> right? And that was the demise both11:11times.11:12>> Yeah. And you know as uh someone sitting11:15in the marketing seat I actually have11:18like a funny schematic that I share on11:20slides when I do like a webinar on this11:22topic where you see you know like I said11:25like this cyclical process between the11:28different departments in like this11:30linear fashion but it's really like a11:32cycle. It comes down from the top.11:35I'm so sorry.11:36>> Oh no no you're fine.11:38over a cold.11:39>> I don't know why I'm so11:41>> No. When you talk a lot after getting11:43over beingness, your mouth get you get11:46dry and then you start coughing. So take11:49>> Yeah. And I just had like a huge thing11:51of green tea to11:52>> Oh, there you Yeah.11:55Okay. So, um we were uh we were talking11:58about um shared alignment across.12:02So I actually have a like a fun12:04schematic that I show in a in a webinar12:06format of this conversation where um you12:09show you can show in like the the12:11typical cycle of um go to market where12:15the the seuite is directing the12:17engineers to build something then it12:19gets handed off to product12:22tells marketing about it marketing you12:25know creates the campaigns around it12:27they uh they basically tell arm sales12:31with the necessary material12:33sales hands off to customer success.12:35Customer success comes back with12:37feedback to the seauite and like the12:38whole cycle kind of rinses and repeats.12:40But really the the department that's on12:43the receiving end of the most most12:44amount of battery and feedback is really12:46marketing because we're hearing it from12:48the seauite, we're hearing it from12:50product, we're hearing it from sales,12:51we're hearing it from customer success.12:53So like all the arrows always end up12:55pointing down at the marketing12:56department. Um and and and the KPIs for13:00the marketing department are also not13:02always aligned with everyone else. So13:04then sometimes the marketing department13:05acts a little bit selfishly in some13:06ways. So you just don't want that. Like13:08why do you have all these that the point13:10of having a company is not to have13:12competition between your teams, right?13:13That's silly,13:14>> right? And so siloed. That's extremely13:18helpful to point out. I want to go back13:20to something you know you said earlier13:22that we talked a little bit bit little13:25bit about and we can delve into it more13:27and that's the importance of like13:29narrowing down to a really clear13:31category. Um can we expand on that?13:35>> Yeah. Um it's funny to me how how how13:39often I'll I'll ask um a team a founding13:42team you know like what market category13:43do you think you're operating in? And13:45then they ask me what's a market13:46category. Uh so13:49>> yeah,13:49>> you know, category leadership, you know,13:51what it what it what it unlocks when13:53it's done correctly is it, you know,13:55categories really shape how buyers think13:58and compare and decide between service14:01and offerings and products. And if you14:03don't define the category, the market14:06will do it for you. And because most14:09buying decisions are made before someone14:11ever even visits your website,14:13>> frankly, um you don't want this14:15definition to precede you. You want to14:18be able to tell your own story on your14:20own grounds. Um and when you14:24when you are leading in the category and14:26you understand your category really14:28well, you now have leverage. You can set14:30the rules for competition. you can shift14:33conversations to not be so focused on14:36what features you offer, but rather the14:38outcomes that your customers can benefit14:41from14:42>> and you spend a lot less time explaining14:45and more time closing the deal. So your14:50marketing efforts around all of this in14:52your go to market function is able to14:54compound on this you know on this um uh14:59momentum as opposed to like resetting15:02every quarter because you're kind of15:03like reinventing yourself or reinventing15:06where you are or you're15:07>> you're not really understanding or15:09realizing how the market is shifting15:10around you. Um, you know, being a15:14category king is very attractive to some15:17companies and that's what they strive15:18for. Um, a category king is really15:23powerful in that it provides a15:25completely new way for customers to15:28live, think, do their business. Um, and15:32you also end up owning15:34like more than often more than 76% of15:37the market valuation.15:40um with other companies like really kind15:41of like competing for like the scraps15:43remaining in the space and like some15:46examples like that are really obvious um15:48are like Amazon, Apple, Google, Netflix15:52like these are all category leaders,15:55>> Salesforce, Zoom.15:57>> It's really difficult now to come out16:00with like a competitor to Slack or to16:04Netflix like that's the16:06>> that's the king right now, right? Um,16:08and now we have like some new kings that16:10are emerging, you know, open AI, we've16:12got Figma, we have notion,16:15um, Loom. So, it's a really interesting16:18space and they've all built new16:20categories that we haven't really16:22thought about, you know, 5 10 years ago.16:25So, I think it's really a really16:26exciting place to be and exciting16:29framework to think about. Um, but if you16:31want to be the leader in your category,16:33you have to market how you are creating16:36value.16:37I think that's so important. I really16:40struck me when you said if you don't16:42like define it and you're clear on it,16:44the market will for you. And I think16:46even more so now with AI and chat GBT16:50because16:50>> founders tell me that chat GBT will16:53convey what their brand, what their16:55category is,16:56>> right? So based on what they're putting16:59on their website. So you've got to be17:01really clear on it right now.17:03>> Totally. Yeah. So, I actually run17:07exercises sometimes because founders do17:09get stuck here because often times um17:13here's the thing like founders have17:15really big ambitions and really big17:17compelling visions but but your product17:20isn't always going to be at it's not17:22going to always match the rate at which17:24your vision is for where you want your17:27company to go and your product to go.17:29And so the short-term narrative is where17:31things get really fuzzy. Um, and when17:34you have a product that is doing well17:36and and you have you have customers, um,17:39this is creating a lot of like true17:41stories. Like you're hearing all of this17:42buzz and how people are using it and17:44stuff, but you don't know which one to17:46focus on as your primary narrative and17:50your marketing team doesn't know. Like17:51they're all kind of trying out different17:52things based off all the things that17:54you're hearing from your your users. you17:56need to like pick a dominant um17:58narrative because when you have all18:00these inconsistent narratives, it18:03confuses not only buyers but AI models18:06that are training on whatever is out18:08there. So these AI models now are are18:11mclassifying you because they don't know18:14what you're saying because what you're18:15putting out there is all all over the18:17place.18:18>> So you have a lot of things working18:21against you now in this like new in this18:22new um era.18:24>> Wow. So you have to be really clear on18:27what you want to be and then how do you18:30develop the clear messaging around that18:32because18:33>> yeah and so you know I think I think18:36working with um somebody who's in the18:38space you know cough cough me but like18:41you know anyone who's like really um who18:44who's really good at taking an objective18:46stance at this and coming with a18:48playbook and and asking you questions18:50that maybe sometimes you don't want to18:51ask yourself or your team doesn't want18:53to ask of themselves. Um but you know18:56like there are some like really easy18:58exercises that you can do even without19:00me where you can sit down and write one19:02sentence that helps you define this19:04category. So like we help a specific19:08audience solve a specific problem19:11without an existing pain or workaround19:14like what is that thing? Okay19:15>> and you can just sit down and do that19:17exercise. Another founder action is19:20>> writing a homepage headline that19:22intentionally excludes someone.19:25>> So if a prospect reads it and says19:26that's not for me, that's actually a19:29win.19:30>> Interesting. That's good idea.19:33>> Another thing that I do, you know, that19:35I end up, you know, uh facilitating is19:39um doing a workshop with with the team19:41with the key stakeholders on the team19:43and we talk for 30 minutes. what problem19:46do we actually solve in one sentence?19:49And I would say 9.9 out of 10 times the19:53answers are widely varying. Um, and if19:57your own key stakeholders are all saying20:00different things, your market is also20:01hearing different things. So again, that20:04trickles down to everything, your20:05buyers, AI, you know, chat GPT, etc.20:09Yeah.20:10>> So just getting like firm firm firm20:12alignment is really at the core of20:14finding that narrative.20:16>> And so in these category kings that you20:19mentioned, great examples of how they20:22have that, right? Like their messaging20:24is so clear.20:27>> Yeah. I mean um one of the examples I20:30love to give is Apple. Um, you know, if20:32you think about like a iPhone20:35>> and you think about the camera and you20:37know, if if Apple just told us like what20:39the features were, you have a retina20:42display,20:44you have a bionic chip, you have 4820:47megapixels. Like, okay. But what they20:50don't, you never see that in Apple20:52marketing. What you see is you get to20:54capture your most important memories in20:56stunning detail. You have a display that20:59brings everything you love to life. That21:02is a wildly wildly different way of21:05talking about a retina display, right?21:07>> Yes.21:08>> Um or Slack, like Slack's features are21:11they have channels, they have21:12integrations, you can share files,21:15>> but they don't that's not what they lead21:16with. What they lead with is you can21:18stay connected with your team no matter21:19where they are,21:21>> or you can reduce email clutter,21:23increase productivity. Like it's such a21:25different mind shift from21:28>> oh but we built channels. Okay, but21:30that's not like what's market21:32differentiating. That's not what made21:33them the king. And what made them the21:35king was being able to really connect21:36the value of what they built with with21:38the buyer.21:40>> I think those are great examples because21:42I think the founders listening can21:44really see with those examples the21:47difference between the two and where you21:49want to be in your messaging.21:51>> Right. Right. And it's really hard when21:53you're in the weeds and when you know21:56>> how much blood, sweat, and tears went21:58into building that feature and you just22:00want to, you know, tell everyone about22:02it. If you don't know how to turn that22:04retina display into look at all of these22:07beautiful moments that you love so much22:09come to life on your phone. If you can't22:12>> translate that, then you need help and22:14you need someone who can step in and22:15help you bring that to life.22:17>> Absolutely. Because a lot of founders22:19have that engineering background and22:21they're so excited about the technology22:24and the development, let's use your22:26example of the retina, you know,22:28feature. They want to lead with they22:30want to lead with that. I've seen that22:32so many times because they personally22:35are excited about it.22:36>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.22:39>> So is that you know on the company22:41advice you have a frictionfinder tool?22:46So is that walk us through that because22:48I think that might be a good resource22:50too for people listening.22:52>> Yeah, there's a friction finder. It's22:54really simple. Um you as a founder can22:56go in and um basically key in on23:00different areas of your marketing23:03promotion, your website and your23:05product. And we asked some pretty simple23:08questions that um depending on your23:11responses just spits out a score and23:13tells you like where these points of23:16friction are, where buyers are might be23:18getting stuck. And you can kind of key23:20in pretty quickly on whether you know23:23maybe your maybe your marketing website23:25is saying all the all the greatest23:27things,23:28>> but the onboarding flow in your product23:30isn't very clear. like people don't23:32understand where to click first when23:34they open your application. Um there can23:37be a lot of these little friction points23:39and they build up and when they build up23:41you are you have a leaky funnel and23:44you're losing revenue. And so the23:46friction finder is just like a simple23:48little tool designed to help you kind of23:51key in on that and then you can use that23:53to, you know, set the next leadership23:55meeting um with your team to to talk23:58about it and to zero in on it or, you24:01know, helps you decide whether you need24:03like a consultant or someone to help you24:05um you know, take some of that off your24:07plate and figure out how to optimize24:09those areas.24:11>> What a helpful resource. So for founders24:14listening, it's the frictionfinder. It's24:17at the company advice your website.24:19What's that URL? Just so we24:26>> off.24:28>> Oh my god. I was trying to hold it back.24:35>> Yes, Kate. So um the URL it's it's24:38pretty simple. It's the24:39companyadvice.com.24:41>> Perfect. Um, and you'll be able to zero24:42in on that friction finder right in our24:44in our navigation.24:46>> Love it. And so, Marina, we always wrap24:48up this show. Um, one of our most24:50popular questions we ask our guests. Any24:54last words of advice for the founders24:56listening that you can share?24:59Um, you know, I think25:04I I I I think knowing that25:09you have invested so much into this25:13baby,25:14the people who are you've hired around25:17you to help bring that baby, you know,25:19raise that baby with you25:21>> because it takes a village. Yes.25:23>> Um, you know, I I think it's important25:25to allow their areas of expertise to25:28really shine.25:30>> Um, I think it's really easy to step25:32into the chief everything officer role.25:35Um, but if you really want to scale and25:37if you really want to be able to step25:39away from founder sales and you really25:42want this thing to take off, sometimes25:45like loosening the reins and hearing out25:47your individual team expertise can come25:50to your benefit. You know, hopefully25:52you've made the right hires so that25:54they, you know, that that that it is25:56coming to your benefit. Um, but trust25:58yourself and trust your team. And I26:00think that a lot of founders would be26:02happier um if they knew that there's26:05some steps that need to be taken,26:07operational steps, fundamental26:10foundational steps need to be taken26:12before the full vision comes to life.26:15And that is okay and that is necessary26:17because without that, you don't want to26:19have a house of cards that collapses at26:21that pivotal moment when you're actually26:23seeing something exciting happen. You26:25want to have the groundwork laid out.26:27You want to have good systems in place.26:29um to withstand26:31that flood that everybody wants to26:35create, right? That flood of users and26:37revenue. So, um be patient,26:40>> right? Excellent advice. And you're so26:42right. When we have VCs on here, they26:44when they talk about the successful26:46startups they invested in, it's always26:48about the team, right? And the founders26:50that,26:51>> you know, built a great team and then26:52leaned into that team.26:54>> So, you Thank you so much. I encourage26:57everyone listening to go check out the26:59company advice website and that27:01frictionfinder tool. You did a great job27:04of explaining something comp more27:07complicated than people think and like27:09to your point not a lot of founders know27:11even what a category is. You did a great27:14job of kind of explaining it all and27:16then helping us see the bigger framework27:20of a successful go-to market strategy27:22and really highlighted some things like27:25about companywide KPIs and things that I27:28don't think is out there very much. This27:31was a really great conversation. Thank27:33you.27:34>> Thank you. I mean, I love nerding out on27:36this. It's it's a it's a passion of27:39mine, so I love talking about it. So I27:41invite any questions or conversations27:44for the conversations on the topic.27:46>> Great. I can tell you know your stuff.27:48Thank you so much for being here today.27:50>> Thank you.
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