Transcript of What is Unbundled ABM
The Healthtech Marketing Show
0:00[Music]0:07Hello and welcome to the Health Tech0:10Marketing Show. I'm your host, Adam0:12Tinus. I'm the CEO of Health Launchpad.0:15So, thank you to you for listening today0:18or watching watching us on YouTube. We0:20seem to have as many people on both both0:23channels. And uh also a big thank you to0:27uh the sponsors of this podcast, the0:29great people from him. So we thank you0:31for your support. Uh I've got two of my0:34colleagues with me today. I've got Mark0:36Owick, our chief strategy officer,0:39longtime health tech CMO. Uh has been in0:43leadership roles in uh in for multiple0:46healthcare technology companies, Verato,0:48Invato, Nuance, and uh honestly one of0:53the smartest, most knowledgeable people0:54on ABM that I've had the pleasure of0:57knowing. Um I always say Mark's0:59forgotten more about ABM than I think1:00I'll ever know. And um I even wrote a1:02book on the the damn thing. Uh and1:07um and my longtime colleague longtime1:10colleague Paul Vandra. Paul has been1:13with us now for go about four years now,1:15right Paul? Probably feels like 40, but1:18you and so Paul is an account director1:20and uh a lead on all things things1:24digital um and has been on this uh ABM1:28journey with me over the last four or1:30five years. So welcome to the show,1:32Paul. So today we're going to be talking1:34about uh a new notion called unbundled1:38ABM. So it's a little bit inside1:41baseball in the GTM, ABM, whatever your1:45favorite threeletter acronisms are about1:48uh businessto business marketing these1:50days. But it's a sort of it's a new1:52notion that's been talked about for the1:54last yeah probably six months or a year.1:56And um you know that at a high level1:59here's the basic premise of it. So2:02platforms like demandbase which are a2:04fully integrated solution that really2:07does ABM at scale and is used by you2:11know global the global 1000 companies2:15and many2:17many you know ventureback SAS companies2:19and many other companies as well and2:22it's highly regarded what it does and2:24then there are other companies like six2:26sense and and terminus and all sorts of2:29other companies like that But2:31Demandbased I think is a good a good2:33example of it. They offer a sort of an2:35integrated enterprise level ABM platform2:39and Mark's going to break down what that2:41actually means for everybody because2:42there's there's quite a lot to it and2:44more to it I think than a lot of people2:45realize. So this notion of unbundled ABM2:48came about because there are some2:50challenges with demand base. Um, you2:52know, first of all, it's it's it's not a2:54small, you know, it is a fairly2:57significant investment. And if you're2:59not sure that ABM is the right thing for3:02you and that you're ready to do it, you3:05know, signing up for a for a big um u3:09you know, seven digit uh license fee or3:13six to seven digit anyway um is is a big3:17ask, you know, particularly in these3:18challenging times that we're all going3:20through. Um the other thing is is you3:23know it it takes work and it takes3:25management because it's ABM and that's3:28not just specific to the platform. It's3:30just if you're going to do ABM you're3:32going to need a lot of resources to do3:34that to do that. So this notion of3:37unbundled ABM is essentially kind of3:39like treating a platform like demand3:41base or six sense as almost like in a3:43modular almost like so it's essentially3:45almost like ABM3:47um as Lego um and um you know we're3:52we're using you know I I think we've3:55been doing unbundled ABM increasingly3:57over the last year without realizing3:59that we were doing this thing called4:00unbundled ABM and we've been doing it4:04Um, and Paul's really going to go into a4:07bit more detail because for for our4:09clients, you know, getting started with4:12ABM is is it seems like a big hill to4:15climb and so we want to make that as4:17easy as possible for them. Um and so we4:20take off you know we we derisk the4:24technology decision and we take that uh4:28that load off them that that burden off4:30them by essentially providing them as4:32tech stack as part of as part of what we4:34do and there's lots of different modules4:37within that and we use some with some4:38clients and all with others and um and4:41we're constantly re-evaluating the tools4:43that we're using. So that's the way that4:45we think about unbundled ABM. But so4:47what what we're going to do in this4:49episode is Mark's going to talk a lot4:51about, you know, what enterprise ABM4:54looks like and particularly sort of some4:57of the differences4:58um and provide that as a framework to5:00think about. And then Paul's going to5:02dive into unbundled ABM and the way that5:05we're approaching it um and some of the5:07some of the things that we're able to to5:09do as a result of taking that approach.5:11So Mark, you know, um again, welcome to5:14the show and um you know, take give us5:17your perspective on this whole issue.5:19Yeah. Uh thank you for the introduction5:21and so happy uh that you scheduled this5:24this podcast, Adam. I think uh there is5:26a lot of uh interesting dynamics5:29currently in the market and like look at5:31LinkedIn and definitely weekly and5:34probably even daily uh there's post on5:37this and then there's also confusion and5:39I suspect some of that confusion is5:42intentionally created uh by some of the5:44the platform vendors if we take a step5:47back and and talk about well ABM like5:50and and if you're on that I really see5:52it in towards a journey and a scale5:54rather than towards fixed pockets. But5:56like on one hand you have demand genen.5:59Somewhere in the middle lives target6:00account marketing and then at the other6:02end there is accountbased marketing. It6:05is being from very broad in the demand6:07genen uh towards uh more uh specific6:11accounts in target account marketing6:13towards being um even in the extreme6:16individual accounts in accountbased6:19marketing. Right? you have that whole6:20scale. Um and and that comes and also6:23with more personalization6:25um in in demand and typically and no no6:29not necessarily personalized based6:32personalized messaging but more broad um6:35whereas and the more sophisticated you6:38get the more targeted your messages are6:41towards um uh the uh the audience. And6:45so I think if you ask me well what is an6:48ABM platform? Um I I I I I think what6:52has happened is that some of the ABM uh6:55vendors out there have deluded the value6:58uh of uh an ABM platform like they claim7:02this is an ABM platform and then if you7:04like open the hood and look what's in7:07there it's just intend data or there is7:12a combination of one or two other7:14technologies that's bundled together and7:16then they call it ABM. So I I think if7:20you are in this in this stage that7:22you're evaluating a a a platform, it's7:24really important to uh think about what7:27are the different things that I want to7:28do and which are really important in in7:31my ABM journey and then we can talk7:34about how do we get there. If you look7:36towards well what what is a definition7:38of an ABM platform is really specialized7:41uh software solution that looks towards7:44the uh execution of accountbased7:47strategies um and and typically um it7:51enables uh marketing and sales to7:54collaborate7:55um by providing tools to build account7:58intelligence,8:00identify, target, engage and measure.8:05high value accounts with personalized8:07campaigns. That's really uh what what we8:09are trying to achieve, right? And and8:11and we see that um um typically with ABM8:16campaigns like you look towards why do8:19we bring this group together and what's8:20the message that you send there? How do8:22you track that? How do you identify the8:25right accounts and and and and8:27particularly in healthcare because8:29there's so many different things that8:31you can actually know about the accounts8:33uh and and leverage that that8:35information um and and get that in8:37there. So uh some of the account uh8:39accountbased marketing platforms have a8:41database in there. You can actually do8:43the account selection in there. Um not8:46saying that that's necessarily the best8:47way but it is an option, right?8:50um uh and and and leveraging um all all8:53of that information um in order to get8:56towards your ICP or even get from hey8:59this is your total available market9:01narrowing it down towards uh your ICP9:04and then looking toward leveraging9:06intent data uh to go out with your9:08campaigns. So just let me just sort of9:10so just for the interest of the9:13listeners just sort of break it down a9:14bit. So two of the big functions of a9:17you know of a system like a demand base9:19or a six sense or something like that is9:22is that it allows you to actually select9:25your target account. So you know you you9:27you do the the strategy work around the9:30ICP offline. You might use some tools in9:33there to actually help you refine that9:35ICP. And then once you've done that then9:39you might you you would then use um a9:41second function which is third-party9:44intent data. Is that that's that's9:46right. So that's it's a little bit9:47broader right because like typically it9:49becomes a a data hub and you have9:51integration with your marketing9:53automation platform with your CRM uh9:56with maybe even with your corporate9:57email. So it sees what people are9:59responding on web activities. So it's10:02more than just uh intent and then it10:05pulls in other data um that some people10:07are doing like manually with another10:10data source whether that's definitive or10:12something else pulling data out there uh10:14so that you have understanding of your10:16technographics you have understanding of10:17hey this is the revenue bracket in in in10:20healthcare sometimes it's important if10:22it's for-profit or non forprofit or is10:25it an academic hospital versus a10:26non-academic hospital like that type of10:28information is really relevant so a10:31third function is the ability to10:32integrate in different data sources,10:35whether that's first party intent data10:37from your own website or social channels10:40or a different source of in uh of10:43account data and contact data,10:46definitive health being a great example10:47in our market. That that's right. Yeah.10:50So, and then if you look towards well,10:53what is in an ABM platform, I think, and10:57and uh I'm going to give an overview.10:59There's nine components. So I'll do that11:01slowly. Uh but there's nine components,11:04right? And11:05um I don't necessarily use um the11:09nomenclature or the definitions from any11:11of the vendors that are out there.11:13Different vendors um offer different11:16components. But if we like would sketch11:20a this is how an ideal ABM platform11:23would look like. And and I think that11:26discussion is really an interesting11:29discussion if you completely ignore is11:32that in one platform or is that in11:34multiple technologies right because then11:37it becomes more a discussion of how can11:39you do good accountbased marketing which11:42I think is the much more important part11:44and then once you figure it out then you11:47can um then you can say okay here's the11:50technology that can support that. So,11:52okay. So, you're going to go through the11:53nine. We'll number them off. Number one11:56is a marketing intelligence hub.11:58Marketing intelligence hub. And and that12:00is really providing the strategic12:03insight for like your product marketing12:05team, for your ABM team to see which12:08accounts are engaging with which12:10campaigns with what type of content,12:12what are they responding on. Um, looking12:15towards the bias group. Really12:17important. Like, hey, we talk so many12:19times about the buyers group and there12:21is like at least these seven people that12:23need to be part of the that are part of12:25the buyers uh group or the buyers12:27committee, however you want to call it.12:29But what is the coverage like and12:31instantly you you want to see that12:33information um uh what campaigns are12:36performing for which product if you have12:38a multi-product company. It's all of12:40that like marketing intelligence12:43information very different than like12:46looking towards the marketing analytics12:49which is the second part which is12:52looking towards the typical reporting.12:54So so number two is marketing analytics.12:56Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Uh looking towards hey12:59how are we doing? What's the13:00performance? Where are we with pipeline?13:02What is the number of MQAs that are13:04generated this month? How are those13:06accounts running through the funnel? Um13:09and then you can uh you should be able13:11to track that by product by journey13:13stage. Um um and and some are getting13:16more sophisticated than others looking13:18towards hey what's even happening after13:20they become a customer is an additional13:22journey if you have multiple13:23productization.13:25What's number three? Number three is the13:28marketing orchestration hub. Marketing13:30orchestration. Yeah. And to me that13:32speaks towards hey you have access13:34towards all of that account data. We13:36spoke about that a little earlier and13:38mapping that ICP profile towards now13:41data resources. So you can build your uh13:44ICP you can target the right13:46individuals. You can create a message13:49around that. So say um you have a13:51message for like compliance or you have13:54a message for cost savings and and then13:57map that towards the different accounts13:59you need. So the ability to personalize14:01and target based on segment or14:04individual. So that's number three is14:05orchestration. Yep. 100%. Then you get14:08towards the uh intent component.14:11Number four is intent. Yeah. Uh so there14:14you want to track uh first and third14:16party intent. Um I I think that's14:19relatively14:20straightforward. Um or the what what's14:24called a dark dark dark funnel. Yeah.14:27Yeah. As as some vendors call that. So14:30uh really important um uh and and uh14:34it's also important where you get that14:35data because there's a lot of data out14:37there and then you get towards the the14:39data component. This is like14:43central piece of information and14:45particularly um when you start uh14:49looking towards all of the different14:51different systems that you'll be using14:53because even if it's just one uh ABM14:57platform, you still have another CRM15:00most likely like something like15:01Salesforce and another marketing15:04automation platform, right? So even in15:06that scenario you have free systems and15:08some organizations are dealing with even15:10more more uh more systems. So somewhere15:13you need to like start mapping leads are15:16coming in mapping those towards accounts15:19making sure that you synchronize and um15:22provide the right order of15:24synchronization between your CRM your15:26marketing automation platform. So number15:28five is data mapping. That's right.15:31Yeah, data mapping, data organizing, all15:35of that 100%. Yeah. What's number six?15:37Advertising. So, you want to orchestrate15:39your advertising. Um, and you want to15:43make sure that you have the different15:45campaigns running there. You want to map15:47your accounts towards it. And that must15:49all be dynamic, right? You're not going15:51to like literally put one account in15:53towards it. So, that must be uh15:54somewhere orchestrated. Um, uh, some15:57vendors out there have dynamic content16:00in the ads. So that you don't need to16:02create like manually one ad six times16:05but um you can put the theme just type16:08that in and then it will automatically16:09be created. Um and then it's following16:12like the account journey as they get16:13towards different steps. Um we've all16:16talked about hey what is the right16:17content during the journey you make sure16:19that that is all16:21fixes advertising. Yep. Then you have16:24website um16:27personalization. So people come towards16:30your website and and you know that16:32they're really interested in um what did16:36we say? Uh cost savings um compliance.16:39Yeah. Compliance. Compliance is even16:42better example. You want to make sure16:44that when they come towards your16:45homepage, and I'm not talking about16:47landing pages, right? I'm just thinking16:49about the homepage. they come towards16:51your homepage um and they they they now16:54see a message about um compliance like16:57and they think the whole website is17:00about that but it's just putting in the17:02right cookies putting in the right17:03information that it's on there.17:06Okay. So that's number is that is that17:09seven number seven is is website17:11personalization. Yep. That's number17:13eight. Uh is the sales inside app. Yep.17:17So the sales team in Salesforce or17:20whatever CRM they're using app is in17:23there shows hey on the account record17:26what's happening with this account it's17:28like showing a journey is providing the17:31information towards the sales rep uh17:34like some core data um what's is the uh17:37who are the people in the buyers group17:39um and some vendors even put like a news17:42feed in there so when a rep comes17:45towards that page like instantly all the17:48information is available.17:50So that's number eight. And then what's17:52number nine? Number nine is an sales17:54insight email. Sales insight. Got it.17:57Excellent. Okay. There's all the17:59information towards I I've I've heard a18:02lot of different ways of breaking down18:05an ABM platform. I really like that it's18:07sort of nice and modular. And I think18:09for anybody, you know, thinking about18:11getting an ABM platform, this is like,18:13okay, that's you should just take take18:16this and and turn it into a set set of18:18requirements. In fact, the blog post is18:20probably going to have that in that. So18:21that that's very helpful. Okay. Well,18:23before we move on to Paul to talk about18:27unbundled ABM, and by the way, I feel18:28like this is going to be a debate for18:31against unbundled ABM.18:34um what are the18:35resources required to to run this at18:39scale? Well, I I I think there there's18:45two answers towards that. I think if you18:48in your18:50organization think make the strategic18:52decision to do accountbased marketing,18:56you need to have somebody managing it.18:59It can't be that your demand gen person19:01is now um now doing also ABM and things19:06will run smoothly unless you're19:08completely transitioning your19:09organizations and I've seen that as well19:11where they say no unless you person is19:14your ABM person right yeah so that is I19:18think regardless of what technology19:20you're using uh that needs to happen19:22anyway19:24and then two there is this um uh what do19:28you from a technology perspective19:31um I think there you need to have one19:33person managing uh that that platform I19:37think the um the once you when you're19:40setting it up you require more resources19:44but typically whichever vendor that19:46you're using is providing uh that I and19:51I would say though like we've also seen19:54um or at least in my experience that hey19:57you spend a lot of energy also in in the19:59content creation like an initiative such20:02as ABM makes you realize hey I don't20:05have all of the the right content which20:08was a problem there anyway regardless of20:10the way that you were going towards20:12market but suddenly it gets really in20:14towards your eye oh I miss that and and20:17we have a gap on on content yeah you20:20yeah because you need you need more20:21content by persona to to to feed the20:24beast and it's not just the beast that20:26requires it is you needed in the first20:28place. Okay. So, so this was a a very20:32well articulated case for the enterprise20:37ABM and um I you certainly I'm I'm20:41convinced but um so Paul for you know20:44talk about the way you know what what20:47unbundled ABM means means to you and and20:50I recognize this like this is a new term20:52right so this is the thing that I you20:54know I kind of think if you ask 10 ABM20:56experts for what their definition of20:58unbundled ABM is you're going to get 1021:00different21:02definitions. How do you think about it21:04and and talk about maybe the way that21:07we're thinking about it with the work21:08that we're doing with our clients?21:11Yeah. And we've definitely been on a21:12journey internally with kind of the way21:14that we approach it and it's really been21:17driven around trying to produce results,21:20right? and trying to produce the21:22outcomes that we want for our clients21:24and to give us the levers and the21:26flexibility to do the things that we21:28want to be able to do on behalf of our21:30clients. Um, I mean really I think the21:32way that we look at it from an unbundled21:35ABM perspective is it's those same nine21:38use cases that Mark was talking about in21:41relation to what these big ABM platforms21:44are doing for their clients. And what21:47we're trying to do essentially is okay,21:49not all of our clients are ready for21:50that level of investment. Not all of our21:53clients are ready for the the21:56the to be candid, some of them can't get21:59it approved. Like technology could22:02couldn't get approved. It couldn't get22:03through the systems, the checkpoints.22:04There's a lot of oversight around22:07technology in the health care space. And22:09so we have this gap where we have our22:12clients that are wanting to do these22:13nine things and we want to do it in22:16their behalf, but we don't have a way to22:18do it unless we can replicate those use22:21cases through other platforms. And so22:23what we kind of looked at was are there22:25other lighter platforms that can do some22:27of these these things for us? And what22:30we realized is that we're running into22:31limitations around just capability. you22:35know, we would have a platform that22:37would do programmatic display22:39advertising for us, for example, or it22:40would do account level reporting or or22:43the ability to kind of package this data22:46for sales, but it just wasn't doing it22:47in a way that we felt like was adding22:49the value that we wanted for our22:51clients. And so what that led us to do22:53is essentially is take those elements22:56and go look for individual solutions22:59that could do one or two or three of23:01those things for us, right? And so let's23:03go look to find a an intent tool that23:06can provide that data for us for our23:08clients and we go look for programmatic23:11advertising solutions and then finding a23:13tool that can kind of aggregate all that23:15information into an ABM platform that is23:18then kind of our central hub. And so23:20that led us to essentially to explore23:23all sorts of different software uh23:26opportunities. And we're we're still23:28doing it right. I don't think this is23:29like a oneanddone type of project for23:32us. We're looking to see if there's new23:34technology that's emerging. We're23:36looking obviously at the privacy space23:38is a is a total moving target, right?23:41And what you can do now to track traffic23:44and with visitors and maybe different in23:47six months, right? Well, yes. And23:49particularly in our case where we have23:51some clients which are US only uh and23:53other clients that are global and so23:55they've got GDPR becomes much more23:57important. Now they're all concerned23:58about privacy and you know rightly so24:00particularly given the industry we're in24:02but you know for some GDPR is an issue24:05for others it's yeah we're concerned24:06about it but it's not you know it's not24:08a deal killer for us. Yeah 100%. Yeah.24:11So so what what ultimately we valued was24:13that flexibility and the ability for us24:16to to kind of share or to to carry the24:20burden of kind of the setup the24:22management the optimization of these24:24tools. And so when we're coming to our24:27clients, that's really the value that we24:28bring is the ability to kind of unbundle24:31these elements to build a a a system of24:35tools that's customized and and fit for24:38the business that you are, the stage24:39that you're in, the investment levels24:41that you're at. So we can kind of choose24:43and peacemeal the tools that are going24:45to be the right fit for you24:46specifically. Yeah. And then we have24:48experience with all these tools in a way24:50to be able to optimize them, set them24:52up, and run them on your behalf. so that24:55we can kind of recreate the demandbased24:57experience in a way that's much more24:59approachable, much less risk for you as25:02a company and still be able to generate25:05real results that are tied to pipeline25:07that's being driven within our target25:09set of accounts. Right. Yeah. So I I25:11think again it's going to be ever25:13moving, ever evolving what those tools25:15look like and the ones that we are25:17using. But we've been able to find some25:19really cool tools like factors and and25:22propensity and and other tools that we25:24really are are seeing have a lot of of25:26of potential to be able to fit specific25:29needs within this um within this use25:31case. Yeah, it I I I think it's been25:34it's an interesting journey. I mean, you25:36know, you you've put a lot of work into25:38it, Paul. I mean I think you know at the25:39the end of the year when things quieten25:41down a bit and over the holidays25:43um you I mean I think you tried what 2025:4630 different tools something like that.25:47I mean certainly a lot of uh emails from25:50LinkedIn reps who were at these various25:54companies on my requests a lot of25:57martekch SAS companies connecting with25:59me like why are they connecting with me?26:01Why is this suddenly getting so many26:02like oh okay Paul's been busy I see. Um26:05I I also think it's26:07um you know part of this is uh is26:11AIdriven but there's also some some some26:15quite interesting innovation going on26:17particularly like in the sort of in the26:19sort of contact level de identification26:22which we're playing around with. I think26:24I think we're still a bit feeling that26:26that when it comes to health care, the26:28verdict's out on some of these tools.26:30Um, you know, they they definitely have26:32potential. Um, and I think sort of tools26:35like Vereta and our B2B are doing some26:37in really interesting things, but you26:40know, it's I I think it's that, you26:43know, then I we don't think they're26:45fully there yet in terms of being able26:47to to26:48deidentify, you know, a significant26:50number of health tech buyers. Um so it's26:54it's uh it's it's early days. Um you26:58know what one of the as we were talking27:00about this in preparation sort of the27:02the kind of the the analogy which popped27:05into my head is this notion of cutting27:07the cutting your cable you know it's27:09like for years right we all had all the27:12TV shows we wanted and then a whole27:14bunch we didn't really care about all27:16the TV channels that we you know wanted27:18plus the ones we didn't care about and27:19they were all bundled as part of your27:21cable program. there were different27:22tiers whether you wanted a sports27:24package or a you know movie package and27:28streaming soap basically came along and27:31blew that up and we've all cut the cable27:33but um I think most people seem to be in27:36the situation I'm in which is you find27:39yourself you cut the cable because you27:40didn't want to pay for all these things27:42that you didn't use and you end up27:44subscribing to HBO because you want to27:46watch White Lotus and um Paramount27:50because you want to watch uh Rogue27:51Heroes and watch the Premier League if27:53you're a Brit like me. Uh and and before27:56you know it, you're spending more on all27:59these different individual streaming28:01services than you were with, you know,28:04just having cable and you got it all and28:06it was it it was convenient. So I do28:09think there's, you know, there's there's28:11a lot to it. The other thing which was28:14really interesting this discussion that28:15we had in preparation for this which is28:18is it easier going the unbundled route28:21but you know because I think a lot of28:22people are intimidated by platforms like28:24demandbased because it's like well28:26that's you know does all those nine28:27things that Mark described that's a bit28:29intimidating but actually if you're28:32really serious about doing ABM and you28:34want to do you know all of those nine28:36use cases and functions to their best of28:39their ability if you go out and get all,28:42you know, software for all of those nine28:43different functions. You know, you're28:45going to have to go evaluate, you know,28:4820 different vendors for each one of28:49those nine functions, then figure out28:51how to knit them together and then run28:53them and have individ individual28:55licenses. And honestly, you're probably28:57better off, you know, you're most likely28:59better off actually going with an29:00enterprise platform. Yeah. I mean,29:02that's the thing as someone who's29:04running these campaigns. I got a lot of29:07tabs on my browser, right? I got a lot29:09of different tools that I'm checking in29:11on. I have a lot of different um y29:14platforms that we're leveraging. Whereas29:16obviously a single tool that you're29:18logging into to kind of manage it all29:20that sounds pretty great, right? Um but29:23we've already talked about some of the29:24limitations of getting to that stage and29:26where we have this familiarity with the29:28tool set that we have. We think we can29:30recreate a lot of that um and and kind29:33of take that burden of having to to29:35manage it all off, right, which it can't29:37because it's when it's in different29:39platforms, it requires you to kind of29:40keep a track of a lot of different29:41things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mark, you when29:46you set up the your your discussion, um29:49you you described sort of different29:51progress sort of evolution of ABM29:54adoption maybe like a maturity type29:56model. I mean it so bring that bring us29:59back to that because that's a you know30:00this is an important notion. 100% and30:02I'm so glad that you bring that up Adam.30:04I I think for for organizations where uh30:07they have only one product for instance30:10um the situation is much simpler. If you30:12have only was it uh two or five sales30:16reps, situation is much simpler. Once30:18you get in towards a larger sales30:21organization and or um like you have30:25five different products and or you have30:28like themes that are really important30:30that um they have different messaging um30:33and and you have also different30:35campaigns towards it. very quickly you30:38get towards like hey what what what is30:40the scale of that you want to implement30:42your ABM um and and do you get towards a30:47higher level of maturity um and it's30:50really interesting like I30:53um I speak to whether it's at30:56conferences or um at other venues I30:59speak to peers and they they tell me31:02I've implemented ABM and it was not31:05successful and for me It's always like31:07hey this is an interesting trigger point31:09right like so okay what did you31:10implement and like typically they31:14implement one or two things uh did sales31:17wasn't even part of it were certainly31:19not like um uh the two components that I31:22mentioned related towards sales uh and31:25not only the sales rep but also the uh31:27the sales manager uh whose life becomes31:30a lot easier in in this world and and so31:33if if if you're just at the very early31:36stage you want to explore that uh well31:39first of all I would say be careful with31:41um using the the the term accountbased31:44marketing because you don't want to31:45poison any future implementation where31:47you go more broad but second also like31:50hey do a test run a test and you can use31:54like Adam like Paul was just explaining31:57with some of the technology that's there31:59implement that and see the results and32:01then grow out from there like you can do32:04ABM for just one product, right? And32:07you're keep you keep on your other32:08product lines and particularly you have32:10to have like different target audiences.32:12That that's also a scenario. So you32:15carve out a uh specific segment if32:18you're selling both towards providers32:20and payers. Well, payers um is a more32:25complicated um and longer sales cycle uh32:29with more even more people in the buyers32:32group. Um and and so perfect example,32:36you may start with your ABM campaign32:38there. Uh whereas for your uh providers,32:41you continue doing what you have been32:43doing, whether that was a more targeted32:46approach or just generic uh demand32:48generation.32:50Yeah. Yeah. I I think that's that's very32:52helpful in sort of thinking about the32:55notion of unbundled versus, you know,32:58enterprise level ABM.33:00um the uh the CEO of um of Demandbase33:05actually to I thought gave a very33:08thoughtful response to this notion of33:10unbundled ABM and I I think he he re uh33:14was trying to reframe it in a way which33:18I think maps to the maturity model that33:20you're describing right yeah 100% so uh33:23Gabe Rogal the CEO of demand basic you33:26basically said there is three areas uh33:29one is light AB PM one product, not a33:32lot of sellers, ASP below 50K and with a33:35short sales cycle. Then you get in33:38towards33:40um an enterprise level uh where your go33:43to uh market strategy increases in33:46complexity um and more alignment is33:49needed between uh the executive team,33:52sales, marketing uh to commit towards33:54ABM. And then a third uh concept33:58centralized best-in-class data34:00aggregation uh and built on um uh34:04leveraging internal uh data science34:06teams uh to create bespoke models for34:09the different product lines and34:11segments. What I really appreciate in34:13his thinking is like he's also pushing34:16the um the the technology aside. So many34:19times um organizations think well let's34:22do ABM let's buy whatever platform and34:27and then things will happen it much more34:30emphasis um and I know that's uh34:33discussion for for another podcast but34:36much more emphasis needs to be on the34:38strategy behind it hey what's the role34:41from marketing now and how will that34:43change what's the role from sales how34:46will that change what's the role of the34:48BDRs and How will that change? What are34:50the new metrics that we are looking at?34:52Right? Really the strategic approach of34:54ABM and so many times that's missing and34:56that's why sometimes ABM projects just34:58fail because like the onset is we35:01implement some technology and then life35:04will be wonderful. Well, it isn't. It's35:05still hard. Yeah, it's a ABM is is is35:09change management. I mean, it is really35:11is it's about changing the way that you35:13you market. At the end of the day35:15though, it all goes back to what Paul35:18said, which is it's about outcomes. It's35:21about what we're what we're trying to do35:24is help our clients grow their35:26pipelines, not generate a bunch of MQLs,35:30um, but move the, you know, move the35:33needle on filling the pipeline with35:36really good quality opportunities. and35:40that you know ABM is the leading means35:44to do that seems seems to be these days.35:46I can't can't think of too many other35:47ways of doing it. Um and you know the to35:51the the these are tools to help help you35:54do it. Um I think the kind of position35:57that we take is is that well we're using36:00unbundled ABM as a way to rent you the36:03technology and uh a view that will help36:06you change the way you're marketing so36:10that you feel confident in using ABM to36:13the point where you stop really thinking36:15about it as ABM because it's just how36:17you do what you do and at that point you36:19are probably ready to do demandbased.36:22Um, it was interesting in a in the uh36:25previous episode we had Eric Johnson,36:27one of our clients, talking about how36:29we're the work we've been doing with him36:31using this essentially this unbundled36:33model and we've used multiple different36:35tools and they're still on the journey36:37with him. Um, versus Kelly McDermott who36:41went with Demandbased from day one and36:42she said then you know they they've36:44really got demand base working well and36:46she's got a dedicated resources who36:48manage it. She did say that if she was36:51to go back and do it over, she wouldn't36:53have started by adopting demand base36:56right off right off the bat. It was a36:58big big lift for her, but they got it36:59working. Some folks do struggle with it.37:02Um and yeah and I think um just to pay37:06the appropriate respect towards demand37:08base they also changed their model like37:10um I was one of the the early clients37:12and then everything had to be manually37:14configured uh and that was took a37:17significant amount of time now they've37:19completely changed their model basically37:21they preset a lot of things and I'm not37:24trying to sell demand based but just37:26sharing what has happened in yeah that's37:29and you can adapt and you can adopt it37:31towards your situation. So they have37:34clients running up in like in three37:36days. So that that the whole approach37:38that we had in the past is is is37:40changed. That's very helpful. I37:42appreciate you you saying that. Well,37:44okay. Well, well, Mark and Paul, thank37:46you. Uh thank you for sharing and and37:48debating this issue with me. And um you37:52know I do you know I just for anybody37:55listening out there if you think hey are37:56you interested in kind of talking about37:58this reach out to me38:00adamalthlaunchbad.com set up a call with38:02Mark and Paul and we can just kind of38:04talk this through with you. It's not a38:06sales call. It's just a you know an38:08opportunity just to sort of talk talk it38:10through. Um and we will share I'll put38:13the links to a couple of the articles38:15that we their LinkedIn posts that we38:17referenced. one is actually about sort38:20of kind of got the was one of the38:22noisiest posts about unbundle ABM. I38:24don't know if it was the first or not,38:25but it certainly was one that got38:26traction a few months ago. And then38:28Gabriel's uh response, which I was very38:31thoughtful. And uh if you like this38:34post, if you thought it was useful,38:35share it with two people. Uh and uh do38:39subscribe, right? You can if you're38:41listening to this, you can subscribe to38:42this on any of your favorite38:43applications. It's the health tech38:45marketing show and you can also watch38:47it. We're on YouTube. Just s search for38:50health launchpad or the health tech38:52marketing show and you will find this38:54episode. So with that, thank you Mark38:56and Paul. Such a pleasure. Thank you so38:58much. Thanks and uh see everybody on the39:01next episode.
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