Transcript of Oscars Directors Roundtable: Jon M. Chu, Nia DaCosta, Guillermo del Toro, Mona Fastvold & More
Los Angeles Times
0:00I feel like it's director's therapy0:01session. It's so nice to hear other0:03people going through it. I'm like, okay.0:05I mean, this is also this I don't know.0:08We don't get I feel largely I think0:12we're very siloed from each other as0:13directors. We don't get to hang with0:15other directors as much. I mean, this0:17guy right here is very good at forming0:20community and0:21>> kid painting model kid. We get together0:23on Sundays and make and paint models0:25together and he's he's wonderful and0:27it's something that has woken me up to0:29how little we get it. And the reality is0:31this whole0:32>> you can talk shop0:34which is very rare0:35>> therapy and like Yeah.0:37>> If you talk shop you learn one or two0:38tools like like somebody in the model0:41kids club said if the credits were right0:43it would read a film by the film.0:45>> Yeah.0:46>> Which is what we're talking about. It it0:48is so so beautiful. Hello and welcome to0:51the Los Angeles Times Envelope0:53director's roundt. I'm Mark Olsen. Let's0:55meet our guests and hear about the films0:57that brought them here today. John Mchu1:00completes his adaptation of [music] the1:01epic Wizard of Oz prequel musical with1:04Wicked for Good.1:05>> The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.1:08No one believed in you more than I did.1:11Mia Dcasta [music] transports Henrik1:13Ipsson's Hetta Gabler to one1:15unforgettable night at a country estate1:17in the 1950s with heta1:21brave.1:24>> GMO del Toro reimagines Mary Shel's1:26haunting and heartbreaking tale of a mad1:28scientist and his creation in [music]1:31Frankenstein.1:37Victor1:39>> Mona Fostfeld wrote and directed the1:41historical musical drama The [music]1:43Testament of Anne Lee, which tells the1:46story of the founder of the Shaker1:48religion.1:48>> After true, [music]1:52I hunger and thirst.1:55>> Ryan Johnson gives us the newest1:57installment of his Knives Out mystery1:59series, Wake Up Dead Man, in which2:01investigator Ben Wablanc tries to solve2:04the strange murder of a manscior. Bob2:06taken an interest in the murder of2:08Jefferson Wixs.2:11And Benny Safy brings the story of2:13pioneering [music] MMA fighter Mark Kerr2:15to life in the biographical sports drama2:17The Smashing [music] Machine. Hi, I'm2:19Mark Kerr and I'm representing American2:21Freestyle Wrestling and I'm here at the2:22World Valley 23. [music]2:33[music]2:37Welcome everyone. And now we know all of2:39you as a group of filmmakers, but I want2:42to begin by talking about movie going.2:44I'm curious if you have a favorite seat2:47in a theater. If there's like things2:49that you need to do to like sort of like2:51get the most out of going to the movies,2:53GMO, I I feel like you must have an2:55opinion about this.2:56>> Well, I like two seats. Number one, and2:59middle first quarter, top of the first3:02quarter. So, you know, I I need a little3:04distance, but I want to see the movie3:05before anyone else behind me. [laughter]3:08So you know ideally where your3:11peripheral vision is occupied by the3:12whole screen3:13>> but not beyond that.3:16>> Nia3:17>> similar middle but top of the uh first3:19third I would [clears throat] say. Yeah3:21that's that's where I'm really like3:23we're here. We're in it. Yeah.3:25>> Benny, where do you like to sit?3:26>> Um I see I would I I know that it's best3:29to be in the middle but I prefer the3:30aisle because I move around a lot. It's3:33not that I want to like get up and3:34leave. It's just that I'm like I fidget3:36and I move my legs and I don't want to3:38bother anybody and I don't want I don't3:39I'm always very aware of like3:41>> that's the other thing is I always need3:42somebody to move next to me.3:45>> It's like it's a whole thing cuz I don't3:47want to bother anybody and I know that3:49if you were sitting behind me it would3:50be an annoying experience in front of me3:52or behind me. So I try to limit that.3:55>> So in a way it does get in the way of3:56how I view a movie. [laughter]3:58>> But I I like to be comfortable. That's4:00really the main thing.4:01>> Yeah. I'm I'm dead center. uh maybe like4:04two rows above. But I uh I am obsessed4:07with making sure the sound is loud4:08enough.4:09>> So I make sure they're at reference. I4:10go talk to the manager. This has got to4:12be at a seven. This is where they want.4:13And they sometimes oblige and sometimes4:15don't.4:16>> I know. Can you tell like if like you4:18think the sound system isn't up to4:19scratch?4:20>> Yes. I can tell if the speaker's out.4:21I'm like and and then it really ruins it4:24>> always. Yeah.4:25>> And Mona, what about you? Do you have a4:26preferred seat?4:27>> No. Yes. Similar uh center a little bit4:30back. Um but also Yes. I'm obsessed with4:33the sound as well. 7 and a half.4:35>> Okay, that's4:36>> where I want it. I want even louder. Um,4:38but uh and I like to be in the middle,4:41but my partner needs to be in the aisle.4:44So, it's it's a compromise. It's usually4:46compromise because he'll be like the4:48same like you he'll have to fidget, move4:50around, get up, you know, needs needs to4:52have clear exits,4:55>> right?4:55>> I look for wherever GMO's sitting4:58[laughter]4:58>> and I come.4:59>> Take the seat that I buy for you. I I5:00sit I sit on his lap. [laughter]5:03>> Best seat seat.5:05>> Best seat in the house. Uh I lay it5:08depends on the theater. I like at the5:10new Beverly in LA. I like the front row5:12actually because there's enough space5:14and because the sound system used to be5:17so terrible. I think Quinton's upgraded5:19now, but it used to be you have to sit5:20in the front. I also I though I love I5:22know it's best in the back, but or in5:24the middle, but I kind of like taking5:26funky ass seats.5:28I kind of like being like in the back5:30way on the side for certain ones and5:32kind of like just5:33>> have the eye.5:34>> Oh yeah.5:34>> You like a funky seat in the back next5:36to the ramp.5:37>> It it switches up your perspective.5:39>> I like going front at like an IMAX kind5:42of situation. Oh my god.5:43>> The Matrix part two. I did that5:44>> cuz sometimes you're that's the only5:46thing that you're there and like it just5:48I like having that strange you cuz5:50you're forced into it. [laughter]5:52>> Also I like when you're in a bad seat5:54cuz you're like thinking like well5:55somebody somebody sits there.5:57>> Yeah. They sell the seat. [laughter]5:59>> Yeah,5:59>> exactly. So, it's like I'm om I'm6:00ominous. I want to feel what that's6:02like.6:03>> You're a man of the people. [laughter]6:05>> A real mench. Yeah.6:07>> I know, John, I've heard you say that6:09with Wicked for Good, you wanted the6:11film to be deeper, but not darker. And6:14I'm curious, you know, it it really6:16doesn't pull any punches as far as like6:17dealing with themes of anti-6:19athoritarianism,6:21ideas against the patriarchy. What was6:23it like to have those sort of, you know,6:25very serious ideas and yet still have6:28this be sort of a buoyant,6:29crowd-pleasing musical?6:31>> Well, that the reason we made it was6:32because it had that meat to it and it6:34was always a sort of two movie year-long6:37experience. We set up the fairy tale6:39first. You get all the bounce and fun of6:41a musical and we set up the the idea6:43that, okay, you step out and you're6:44going to conquer. And movie two was kind6:46of where we all are is this that moment6:48of the fairy tales shattered in front of6:50us and how do we pick up the stories6:52from there and what do we tell I just I6:54have five children now and so I'm a a6:57new father in a way. Uh I mean it's only6:59been eight years but still it's a lot of7:00things happened all at once. So I'm7:01thinking about how to present stories to7:03my kids. Do I still believe in the7:05possibility of dreams and the American7:07dream and and so for good really gets to7:09delve into that stuff and because it was7:11shorter than the first half we get more7:13room to do. We added new songs to7:15explore that idea and everything was7:16changing around us. So, it all sort of7:19like felt really like fitting. Movie one7:22could be an answer. Movie two is much7:24more of a challenge to everybody else.7:25Who Who are we going to be now that we7:26know the truth?7:27>> I'm taking you to see the wizard.7:29>> Absolutely not.7:30>> Yes.7:31>> No.7:33>> This is between the wizard and I7:36>> understand, but you have to trust me. I7:38know how to talk to him, and maybe I7:40could help work something out. [music]7:45Gro, you've talked about Frankenstein as7:47being a lifelong dream project. What is7:50it like for you to finally have it out7:51of your system?7:52>> Well, there's a massive postpartum7:54depression.7:56Number one, and it's real, and uh and it7:59it affected me more than I thought it8:01would, you know, to be candid. But uh8:03the other thing is, fortunately, I've8:05been very interested in two new themes8:07that are going to be sure to produce8:08blockbusters, which is memory and8:10regret.8:11>> [laughter]8:13>> the the the dynamic duo of a past 60 and8:17I always I always thought about that uh8:21in an abstract but now I'm you know I8:24try to make the movies not only about8:26the moment I'm in but about me seriously8:29try to express what what makes me uneasy8:32what makes me believe you know the8:35possibilities of grace or even in the8:37most horrible circumstances and I'm not8:39talking only social personal or8:42philosophical and you know uh something8:46happens when the six clicks in on the8:49counter and I'm I'm going to go go to8:52that I mean you know all you can do is8:54do do I feel I have something to say you8:57know genuinely and then you go to that9:00>> and if you have it in your heart forgive9:02yourself into existence9:05if death is not to be then consider this9:09my And while you are [screaming] alive,9:13what recourse do you have but to live?9:16>> Now is the time to scare yourself into9:18being young again in a strange way. Like9:20I I want to try tools that I've never9:22and like Frankenstein culminates a style9:25of shooting with the techno, a style of9:28designing more oporatic with visual9:31gestures and color palettes and this and9:33that. So the sort of the painterly9:36gliding uh style and now if I did it9:40after this then I would be repeating9:41myself. So I'm very intrigued by9:44going for a very different camera work9:47like Croninberg I I had dinner with him9:49when he was turning 74 and he said that9:51he said you have to scare yourself into9:53being young again he says try things9:55that you haven't tried say you know and9:58this I do in every movie I do before I10:00do every movie I say what am I doing10:02different as a human being in this movie10:05and and and and this is a very serious10:08question I'm doing next Ryan, you've10:12talked about how with Wake Up Dead Man,10:13it was a very personal story for you. It10:16deals with your upbringing and your own10:18sort of relationship to religious faith.10:20>> Was it difficult to be vulnerable in10:23that kind of a way to make a story that10:25feels this personal to you?10:27>> Yeah, this was definitely the heart, but10:28I think it goes exactly to what a10:31Catholic. Yeah, you're Catholic. I'm I'm10:33Protestant. I'm lapsed. Me, too. I'm a10:36lapsed Protestant.10:37>> Uh, a lot of connective tissue there.10:39Um, but it goes to what what what Keros10:42said, which is especially I mean for me10:44this, you know, I I am at the third one10:47in the series of movies, but I don't10:49really think of them as just continuing10:51a series. For me, everyone has to be10:54something that is scary in its own way10:56because I'm not sure if I know how to do10:58it. And because it's forcing me11:00personally into I mean something you11:02said I think is so true is that and I11:04think we all probably find I find this11:07more and more with each movie that you11:09realize11:10>> you're working hard to make a work of11:12art that you are proud of but at the end11:14of the day your experience making it is11:16what you're going to keep and move11:17forward with in life.11:19>> Exactly. And at the end of the day, that11:23is going to translate to what the thing11:24is in a direct way also. But first and11:27foremost, you just you got to be growing11:29with every movie personally. And you11:30have to be making yourself uncomfortable11:33and digging for me digging into this11:34thing of faith which I I grew up very11:36very Christian. It was a very personal11:38thing for me up through my early 20s and11:41I'm not a believer anymore. And so it's11:42something I have a lot of ideas and and11:46feelings about. Um, and being able to11:49first of all challenge myself. Can I put11:51can I explore those in the context of a11:53what is supposed to be a big11:54entertaining fun murder mystery movie.11:57Everyone thinks I did it. I didn't do11:59it. [snorts] But in my heart, maybe I12:02didn't. And the way it happened was some12:04kind of miracle. And I don't know. I'm12:08lost. I don't know.12:10Would you allow me to help you?12:14Wake Up Dead Man is specifically set in12:16the year 2025 and really all the Knives12:19Out pictures have been dealing with our12:20sort of contemporary reality. What is it12:22that you kind of want to be exploring12:24there? What what makes you want to do12:26that?12:26>> Well, I mean that that kind of started12:28for me with like the first movie with12:29Knives Out and that this is a genre, the12:32murder mystery genre that I love and12:34that I'm just seen so much of growing12:36up. But when you it's also a genre where12:38most of what I had seen throughout my12:40whole life murder mysteries are period12:42pieces set in usually in England and12:45usually in like a cozy little bubble of12:47like a little quaints shire place in12:50England and I I guess my realization was12:52that's not what Agatha Christie did. She12:54was not writing period pieces. She was12:56she wasn't a incredibly political writer12:59but she was always writing to her time.13:01So, it was just the idea of let's it's13:04not trying to do anything radical in13:06terms of making it new or updating it or13:08something. It's just trying to do it13:09really really well, but let's set it13:12very much un unapologetically in the13:14modern moment. The murder mystery is a13:16great uh the fact that you have a group13:18of suspects that have a hierarchy of13:21power amongst them and the person at the13:23top, they all want to bump off. It's13:26such a potent vehicle for building a13:28little microcosm of society and so why13:31not use that to kind of have fun looking13:34at the world around us right now.13:35>> Mona for you with Ann Lee. I mean it's13:38about the origins of the Shaker13:39movement. Did you find that there were13:41challenges in trying to depict religious13:43faith on film?13:44>> Yes. It's hard because I really did I13:48didn't want to I didn't want to raise a13:51finger and and judge her or the her13:53attempt and at the same time you know I13:55couldn't become a shaker I couldn't13:57become a believer as well. So it's it's13:59finding that space in between which I14:02think I'm sure you also really dealt14:04with in the film as well where you're14:05like how where do I stand with these14:07characters and how can I go on a journey14:09with them um and and when can I sort of14:12take a step back and observe them and14:14have a and be critical of the choices14:16that they make but sort of finding that14:18balance and for me also it's a lot14:20[music] about finding that balance14:21between there's there's moments that are14:24comedic it's you know it's it's they're14:26absurd they're they're you know14:28It's a it's a time period also where14:30there's a bit of this sort of openness14:32and naive because it you don't know how14:35everything works. So perhaps you know14:38perhaps this is the solution. Perhaps14:40you know that there are these wonders of14:42the worlds that they're still14:43discovering and you kind of there's14:45something quite sweet about that as well14:46and endearing. So I kind of when can you14:49finding that balance between having let14:53letting you letting it be funny and14:54comedic or letting it be serious and14:56tender and and graceful. It's it's a14:59it's a fine balance. A fine balance in15:01the direction. It's a fine balance in15:03the uh in the edit I find where you're15:05constantly like15:07>> leaning a little bit too far in one15:08direction and then15:10>> it doesn't work and then you know15:12>> Yeah. You're making a historical piece,15:14but were you thinking about contemporary15:16themes as you were making the film?15:18>> Yeah, it was hard not to. Of course,15:20it's, you know, it's about this woman15:22who's creating a whole new societal15:24structure. She's trying to create this15:26utopian um society with complete15:29equality between gender and race and,15:31you know, the late 1700s. So to think15:35that that that15:36happened that existed that that someone15:38tried to do that so so many years ago15:41and then to look at where we are now15:42it's impossible not to sort of think15:44about what what would have happened if15:47she someone could have continued to15:48build on those ideas instead of15:51repressing it and just erasing her from15:53mystery15:54>> because Nia with Ha and moving the film15:57to the 1950s were you still thinking of16:00the sort of contemporary resonances that16:02story was going to16:03Oh, for sure. Yeah. I think especially16:05because I was focusing a lot on women16:08being suppressed and oppressed, but not16:11just by society, but by themselves and16:12what they've internalized. I knew that16:14would be a perennial sort of issue or16:16something that would light people up16:19perennially. Um, but the ' 50s I also16:21chose because it's recognizable to us16:23now. like I chose sort of the like a16:25murder mystery sort of trapping for the16:27film, the English estate because it was16:29a recognizable sort of um spaces in16:32which we tell parables essentially. And16:35so I wanted to to be in conversation16:38with that, still have it be period,16:39still have it be um uh genre, but16:43absolutely wanted people of the now to16:45be able to look at that and say, "Oh, I16:46I recognize myself unfortunately16:48[laughter] um in this character."16:49>> Ha is such a bold adaptation of Ha16:52Gabbler. You switch the gender of one of16:55the main characters. You aren't afraid16:57to inject issues of race and class and17:00sexual identity into the story. What17:02gave you the confidence to sort of like17:05add all this to that story?17:07>> Um, I wrote it on spec, so I wasn't17:09thinking about anything besides like17:10what like letting my freak flag fly17:12basically. I I genuinely, you know, I17:14read it when I was 22 and pretty17:16immediately thought, "Oh, this is really17:18interesting. I'm like seeing something17:19beyond the text here." And at the time17:21when I read it, I was in I was getting17:23my masters in the UK. And the way we17:25worked with text, especi especially17:26theater text was like what's the play17:27within the play and that's kind of how I17:29approach all drama now because you kind17:31of give the actors the character. They17:33give the character back to you. And in17:34that you are like oh there's that's what17:36I was saying. That's what that's what17:37that is. And so with ha I just thought,17:40hm, this character makes more sense as a17:41woman. Okay, what does that mean now?17:42How does that affect the rest of the of17:44the of the story? And then I just go17:46from there. And then it ended up being17:48really bountiful and really generative.17:50Um, and then you know when I met Tessa17:52you know 3 years later I thought oh when17:54I write this eventually Tessa will play17:55Ha. So now she's black. Okay what does17:58that mean? Oh that actually offers a lot17:59of opportunity as well. Um especially in18:01her relationship to her father. Um and18:03Tessa is also mixed race. So then you18:04you get that element of it as well. And18:06then I chose the 50s and then I chose18:08England and the country house. And you18:10just it's almost like research when18:11you're finding out these truths. You18:12just treat these things as truths and18:14then they then it the story has to go in18:16a certain direction. So, I never worry18:18about those things. Maybe because I'm a18:20black woman, so I'm like, well, you18:21know, I my presence or my identity for18:25some people will complicate the story.18:27Um, but for me, it just is life. So,18:29that humanity I just let live in the18:31story.18:32>> We were mad together.18:34>> I would have been dead by your hand or18:37mine if I'd stayed.18:38>> Why did you come here?18:46to make sure I didn't love you.18:50>> I think that's what I loved about18:51watching the movie is like every scene18:53those things would come up that I didn't18:55realize were questions even in my mind.18:57Oh, what happens when it's what happened18:59with it? Like that was really great as19:01an as a journey of19:02>> Oh, great.19:04>> Like why would if if it if you're not19:07interpreting Ipsson like what's the19:08point to me? I mean we've read the19:11everyone knows the place, we know the19:12place, we know what he had to say. So19:14what's exciting is really the19:16conversation that you are having with19:18that's exciting to me19:19>> and and it tickles me to think of him19:23[laughter]19:23>> say love work as a woman but just he's19:25kind of piss and I talk about Yeah.19:27because he's kind of annoying.19:28>> Yeah. He's kind of like one of those19:30sort of chovian characters where it's19:31like I'm so brilliant and I'm sad. What19:33do I do? And I'm like girl relax.19:36[laughter]19:36>> Yeah. I'm like well if you're a woman19:38actually then I'm like really engaged in19:39that struggle. So yeah, it would be19:41really interesting to see what he19:43>> It's great.19:44>> Yeah.19:45>> Benny, you know, Dwayne Johnson brought19:47the project to you and in some ways19:49you're like helping facilitate someone19:51else's dream project and just what was19:54it like for you and in knowing that this19:56was such a different role for Dwayne?19:59How did you sort of like help him get to20:01where he wanted to go? Well, it's Yeah,20:03it's interesting because like normally20:05when that happens, it's almost like,20:07"Oh, no way." You know, because it's20:08like it's there's just a knee-jerk20:10reaction like, "Oh, what are the chances20:12you're going to align with what I'm20:14thinking?" But it just so happened that20:17like when he brought this idea, this20:20character and then I watched the20:21documentary and I see Mark, I just there20:25was something about that like, oh, what20:28I like about Mark and what I'm intrigued20:31about him is the same exact thing that20:34Dwayne is intrigued by. And so I20:37realized that there was something that20:38we could do together to try and20:41understand what it exactly was about20:43this person that made it that was so20:46interesting to us. And I think it was a20:48mystery a little bit that we were trying20:49to figure out as we were going through20:52because there was like the thing that's20:54interesting is there was this document20:57of what happened. You know, it's so20:59filmed. It's there. You can see it. When21:02you say it with your lungs, it changes21:04something. And that was something that I21:06found really interesting is that when21:08Dwayne approached trying to understand21:10Mark as a person, something happened and21:14you could see him in these situations21:16expressing himself21:18>> through this other person's experience21:21and then it became okay. And then to21:23touch on what what what we were all21:25talking about before, which is like,21:26well, challenge yourself and how you21:28tell a story and do something different21:31in a way. And it's like, okay, well, if21:33that's what I'm exploring here, let's21:36really make it feel like we're with this21:38person. And time slows down a little21:40bit. You're in these weird moments of21:42like like just nothingness, but a lot21:46happens in those moments. And watching21:48somebody in a way try to become somebody21:52else is part of it, you know.21:53>> Hi, I'm Mark Kerr and I'm representing21:55American Freestyle Wrestling and I'm21:57here at the World Valley 23 to prove21:59that it's the best fighting style.22:01>> And that is wrestler Mark Kerr 61 260 lb22:06from Toledo, Ohio. And again, his22:08specialty is freestyle wrestling and22:11this is his first professional fight.22:13Benny, you mentioned your brother Josh22:15that this is your first solo directed22:17film, feature film without him. He has22:19his own film coming out soon.22:21>> What has it been like for the two of you22:22kind of navigating this time making22:24these projects on your own?22:26>> It's, you know, it's it's been22:27interesting because like from like you22:30have kind of have in a similar thing to22:32like Frankenstein, you have this thing22:34that you've been thinking about for a22:36very long period of time. And for us22:38that was uncut gems you know like this22:40thing that we always wanted to make and22:42then when you make it you come to this22:44place of like okay well now what do I22:46want to do with my life you know because22:48that was always the focus for so long22:51and in the process of that we had done22:53so many other things just as like kind22:55of forks in the road and so when that22:58was finished it really became like okay22:59well now what basically and then it just23:03like meant like kind of like all right23:04well let's explore different things and23:07different kind of ways of telling a23:08story and it kind of is like that's kind23:11of how we started you know before in23:12college we came together and then now23:15we're just exploring things kind of23:17separately in that way but it definitely23:19is a lot of that where it's like well23:20what do I want to to look at what is it23:24that I want to see and I don't know23:27that's just that's just kind of how you23:28approach it23:29>> John GMO you both are working at such a23:32scale in your movies both in matter of23:34the size of the sets the size of the23:36cast, the budgets, John, just the23:40florist credits alone on Wicked for Good23:42are very impressive. What is it like for23:45the two of you working at that kind of23:46scale?23:47>> Yeah, I mean, we have every department.23:48It's like building Disneyland23:50essentially at the warehouses we be23:51going. There's first a recording studio.23:53So, we're recording music while their23:55dance rehearsals are going on. You have23:56hundreds and hundreds of people. Then23:57you go to the costumes department. You23:59have the then you have the hair, just24:01the wigs alone. People are getting there24:02at 2:30 in the morning. And that's24:04before you even start the day. And yet24:05when you get on the day and I don't know24:06if you have this issue as well, but like24:08I want to play on that day. You we just24:10spent nine months um trying and we were24:13planning two movies at the same time. So24:14we had had 20some musical numbers24:16rehearsed and and and and worked with24:18our cinematographer and our team to24:20understand everything and and build sets24:22around these pieces. Um and then and24:24then you get on the day and you're like24:26how do I say hey all that stuff we did24:28this actually it's happening over here.24:29Let's move everything over here. I felt24:32the hardest thing was being okay with24:34wasting money if it was the right thing24:36to do at that moment. And so that every24:38moment these girls Cynthia and Ariana24:40are amazing. They're living they're24:41digging into these truths of these24:42scenes that have been done many many24:44times but they're digging into new24:45things and I needed to feel free and had24:48everybody aware that if I'm moving all24:50of a sudden like we got to go and we got24:52to figure it out. And I think that's24:53where the magic of24:55>> So you don't get locked in. Yeah.24:56Because otherwise Yeah. Cuz it's Yeah.24:58That's the thing that's so hard is like24:59when you're building that world,25:01>> you inherently know it's finite, but25:03when you make those turns,25:05>> that's what you're like, "Oh, wait.25:06Maybe there is something around that25:07corner." You know,25:08>> you almost had to forget about Is that25:10how is that It feels like that when I25:11see your25:12>> To me to me three things. One, the first25:15one is tonal, meaning uh everything that25:18you do, you do you you're not doing eye25:20candy, you're doing eye protein, you're25:22telling a story.25:23>> So, it's not about looking good or25:25looking big. is about does the gesture25:27happen at the right moment.25:28>> Is the audience affected by that25:31gesture? Because you can make gestures25:33on the wrong moment of the film and they25:35go by or they are not registered. They25:37don't have a dramatic impact. But if25:39they do, that's the first question.25:40Tonal because also everything works to25:44allow the creature to exist.25:46>> You know when I I say we designed the25:48movie for the creatures to feel real of25:51a peace with the world. So that's the25:52first one. And the second one I think is25:55uh is it is it expressing something uh25:59different every time we go uh to to a to26:01a bigger thing or it's not about the26:04scale it's like uh the the childhood is26:07very limited palette black white and red26:10the red carries through the opening is26:12white uh blue and gold victor is full26:16palette the creature is a different26:17palette that is more earth moss woods26:21becomes a fairy tale you know So, uh,26:23when when you're doing that, you're26:24still conducting a largo, an allegro,26:28and you're conducting an area, you know.26:30So, you you're you're thinking about, am26:33I doing the is it I I always tell my26:36crew and my designer team, I say, be26:38aware and be wary of the big ideas26:41because they're mostly26:42[clears throat]26:43>> Find ideas that size themselves to26:45delivering a piece of drama. And that's26:48the final one uh to me is uh does it26:52feel uh real in the world?26:56>> You know, because if if you if you if26:58you one misstep and it all of a sudden27:00is a movie27:02>> and you're not in a movie moment, that's27:04a that's a big problem. So the the the27:07way the way I go at it is there's no uh27:10no no type face no paint no photograph27:15nothing can be not investigated and27:18designed to within an inch of its life27:20>> so that when you see it you say yeah27:22that's an even great movies I'm very27:24fidgety I go that's not a painting from27:27the 1930s that's a painting somebody27:29painted it much later or a tide face or27:31a or a carnival banner or something like27:34that So at the end of the day, if you do27:37your job right, as you do, you you you27:39have a world and people just get into it27:42almost like a vibe.27:44>> Nobody shouldn't notice, but they go27:46into a vibe and and if you do it right,27:48they want to experience it over and over27:50again. They they want to get that27:52flavor.27:53>> Ryan, do you find you have to know like27:56when and how to pick your battles? Like27:58do you have to know like what's sort of27:59worth really like holding your ground28:02and fighting for? Well, I I I think it's28:05I mean, look, the the one thing where28:07where quote unquote fighting comes into28:08play is just against resources, which I28:10think we all experience, whether it's28:12time during the day, whether it's budget28:14of this or that, then that becomes a28:15real struggle. I think if you walk into28:18something with the language of fighting28:20for what you want with the collaborators28:22you're going into, then you've you've28:24got yourself in trouble from the get-28:25go. I I think the reality is you have to28:28walk in and you part of your job is to28:31set the tone from the very start that28:32like Germa said, we're all one28:34department here. We're all working to28:36tell this story as powerfully as it can28:38be told. You're the one who wrote it, so28:40you have a very strong perspective28:42coming in, but that includes coming in28:44and knowing you're working with a bunch28:45of talented artists who are going to be28:47bringing things and you need to listen28:50to them, too. And and if28:51>> you have to get them on board like if if28:53they're having a if they're saying oh28:54this isn't important you have to get28:56them to understand why it is and it's28:58not fighting it's just like oh I didn't29:00explain that clearly enough you know29:02>> and and beyond that many many times they29:05have something I never thought of is a29:07better thing it is suddenly oh wait a29:08minute or it sparks something in me29:10where I'm like okay not that but that29:12leads me to think this and that's even29:15and so and that then the process becomes29:17not just executing this plan you had29:19which will never work or feel alive.29:21Then it is like taxiderermy like you29:23said then it becomes a living breathing29:25process with your collaborator29:28brave. You want it to be alive all the29:30time.29:30>> That's what it needs to be. Yeah.29:32>> Monoa with Ann Lee but also with the29:34brutalist it seems like the movies that29:36you and Brady Corb are collaborating on29:38together. You're doing so much with29:40relatively limited resources. Like I've29:42heard audiences gasp when Brady would29:45say like what the budget or the schedule29:46was on The Brutalist. Is there a trick29:49to it? Like what is it that the two of29:51you are doing in the films you make29:53together that it seems like you're able29:55to make the film seem so grand when29:58you're still working on relatively29:59limited means?30:00>> Yeah. No, I mean there's no I mean30:02there's no trick there. It's just it's30:04really just what you all were talking30:07about which is that well I I did start30:10prep for 9 months as well or longer than30:13I prepped for almost a year for this30:14one. Um because I knew that my no one30:18was going to give me a lot of money to30:20make a movie about like a about the30:21founders of the Shakers, a musical about30:23the Founders of the Shakers. It was not30:25going to be this sexy pitch, you know.30:28It was a hard pitch. So I knew that it30:30was going to be a limited budget. So I30:32But at the same time, I just desperately30:34wanted Ann Lee to have a really grand30:37story and I wanted there to be a a re30:40believable, lush world. and I wanted to30:42tell a story about her whole life, not30:44just a day in her life. So, it just I30:47had to make it work somehow. But it was30:49so much about saying, "Okay, I'm working30:52with my DP and my and my production30:55designer, my costume designer every like30:57weekend and night for, you know, months30:59and months before we started official31:01prep. So that we were so much so we were31:04working so closely together and with31:06same with my choreographer and and um31:09and composer and with all of the cast as31:11well just rehearsing even if you know u31:15Amanda was rehearsing at night while she31:18was shooting some something else she31:19would go and have dance rehearsals um at31:22at nights or on the weekends with us so31:23we could keep on adjusting. I hunger31:25[singing] and thirst. I hunger and31:29[music] thirst after true righteousness.31:33I hunger and thirst. [singing and music]31:35I hunger and thirst.31:38>> I think that's one of the biggest31:39lessons I learned in being a director.31:41You're like, "Oh,31:43>> you don't have a right to make your31:44movie cuz it costs so much and you need31:47so much help. You actually you do have31:48to earn the right to make your movie and31:50there's so many decisions and how you31:52tell the story and how creative you are31:53to actually get people to convince you31:55to make a movie. That is a part of our31:57job. And then when you're making the31:58movie, the pressure is on and how you32:00going to convince people to stay on and32:01or give you more to do your thing. I32:03just think as a storyteller it's like32:04yes, you're making the movie, but you're32:06storytelling all the time. Like I'm32:07fascinated with how you're able to do32:09all the types of movies that you do and32:11how you convince people that you can do32:12it. It's like it's really amazing.32:13>> I'm very convincing. Yeah, I can tell.32:15Well, talk about that a little bit32:17because you come to Hetta having just32:19made a Marvel movie. You've just also32:21finished a sequel to 28 Years Later, a32:24zombie horror movie.32:25>> Yeah, excuse me. They're infected, but32:26continue.32:26>> Sorry. [laughter]32:27>> The infected horror movie that to you,32:29is there a throughine to these very32:31different seeming movies, or do you like32:33leaning into what's different from one32:35to the other? being a nerd. I think uh32:37you know Marvel horror like comic books32:40another horror like32:41>> for me those things I've done that I32:43haven't written um are worlds that I32:46loved as a kid. So like Candyman was32:47hugely important to me when I was32:49younger.32:49>> So much part of like my middle school32:51bathroom experience not [laughter] doing32:53it you know trying people trying to get32:54me to do it Marvel. Exactly. Not doing32:57I've still never done it. Uh used to32:58love Marvel comics as a kid. you know,33:0028 Days Later is one of my like33:02formative films that I watched. And so33:05when the opportunities came up to be a33:07part of those worlds, you know, it was33:08really exciting for me. Um, and then Ha,33:11I'm a theater nerd, too. So, you know, I33:13think it's just I really go by my33:14passion and I'm really compelled by just33:17interesting characters. And, you know, I33:19think Ha and 28 Years Later are very33:20different films, but for me, they were33:22so similar because I've learned from my33:24experience jumping into the studio33:26system after making a submillion dollar33:28movie. what works for me and what33:30doesn't work for me and what works for33:32me is really being given authorship. And33:36so your question about like, oh, you33:37know, what battles do you fight? I33:38don't, again, I'm setting the tone33:40early. Like, we're not here to battle.33:42We're here to make the vision that I33:44have. And if you're into it, cool and33:46great. Let's work together. If you're33:47not into it, then it doesn't have to33:49exist, you know, or we'll find another33:50way for it to exist. But for me, like33:53that's what what I'm really led by is33:54like my passion for the thing and then33:56also how to make it happen.33:58I think that the important for me was34:00what was the ambition should always be34:02beyond the budget.34:04>> Yeah. And you have to if they give you34:06130 you want to make a movie that is 26034:08you know and but the way to that I found34:11by doing devil's bag one which is 334:13million or shape of water which is 19.334:16or the v the variations what I think is34:19is now and then you say what I said34:21before the gesture34:23>> when do I deploy the gesture like shape34:25of water open with all the different34:28sets in the first 15 minutes and then34:30it's two sets34:32>> lab apartment It's like when the34:34magician holds the the the Yes. No. No.34:38No strings. It's34:39>> a really big movie. It is a Let's go.34:42Yeah. So, if you I always tell the the34:45departments, let's choose meatballs and34:46gravy.34:48>> Where do we where do we put the real34:50resources for people to go well34:53>> this is this or this is that and then34:56>> they are you reach a plateau no matter34:58what no matter what the budget. So, you35:00need to know never spend money on a35:02plateau. Yeah,35:03>> it always needs to mean something.35:05>> Gamma, you've been very outspoken in35:07your criticism of AI and filmm. What is35:10it about it that concerns you the most?35:13Do you feel like it's something that's35:14being forced on filmmakers?35:16>> Look, I I cannot speak about35:17engineering, chemistry, mathematics,35:20architecture, I don't know. But35:21creatively, uh uh [clears throat] no one35:24ra No, I don't know of any artist that35:27raised their hand and said we need AI.35:29Yeah. No.35:30>> Nobody like like you know it's somebody35:32that somebody that that's [laughter]35:34stepped into the middle of the party35:36charted.35:37>> Yes.35:38>> And now wants to be applauded for it.35:40Yeah,35:40>> like oh and now we have to welcome why I35:44mean creatively and AI is implicitly35:47there in particle systems and things35:50like that but generative AI is a35:53different conversation and I and I don't35:55think it's is um is something that you35:59uh can accept without realizing that if36:02you get to the middle faster36:04>> you're not doing process36:06>> you know you can get to the middle and36:07sort of middle solutions that are36:10neither inspired nor uh revolutionary36:13nor uh and you didn't go through the36:15problem solving to get there in an36:18organic or instructive way for an36:20artist. So you know look it's I only36:22have thoughts on that uh because I think36:25that the aesthetic resulting from it36:28devalues uh the most sacred pack between36:31mankind and the image which is a pack36:34that goes back to alamera or goes to the36:37icons of a church. There is a sacredness36:40to image and humanity that when you36:44nullify it, you're nullifying something36:46that is quite essential. People left36:49their mark through images through their36:51experience, their pain, their failure,36:53their their joy, their success. And this36:55is what one way or another we do. So36:59ones and zeros did not go to turmoil,37:02did not lose a son, did not sing about37:05it. you know it's only only what it does37:08to us. The greatest crimes uh to37:12civilization have been done in the name37:13of convenience,37:15>> you know, and and the greatest change on37:17architectural pride was the car,37:20>> not architectural, not nothing37:21revolutionary in architecture, the car.37:24All of a sudden, the streets became37:25three times wider. You had a parking37:27lot. And the ramifications of this and37:31the creation of image does concern me.37:34Mhm.37:34>> And we're going to we're going to37:35choose, you know, I I we we choose, you37:38know, they have robots that can play37:40soccer, but we don't as an audience37:41watch that because it doesn't have the37:43emotion, it doesn't have the thing.37:44We're going to choose what's art,37:45whether that's vandalism or street art37:47that we respect. And so, I think we will37:49choose the right thing. And I think the37:51bigger actually, we can talk about37:52generative AI, all that stuff. The37:54bigger crime against creativity is this37:56infiltration of our curiosity. We're37:58scrolling now and we used to trust our38:00curiosity, follow your curiosity. Now38:02these algorithms have figured out what38:04we're curious about and it's going to38:05guide us into other avenues. That is the38:08most dangerous thing and we now we have38:09to be be aware of your creativity. Be38:11skeptical of your creativity. Oh my god.38:13>> But I think that the wor there's two38:15things. One is I don't think it's even38:17curiosity. They are aware of your38:19proclivity38:20>> which is very different. What you38:21frequent doesn't mean that's all you38:23desire. And the second one I can run 10038:26meters in my moped faster than Oslam38:28Bolt.38:29>> That doesn't make me Oslam B. come open,38:32you know, is is is the process that38:34dignifies the the the result.38:37>> Ryan, your previous film, Glass Onion,38:38had a more robust theatrical release38:40than what Dead Man's going to be38:42getting.38:43>> Do you feel like as filmmakers that you38:45all are being put in this position of38:46like fighting for the future of of38:49theaters and movie going? Well, I I38:53think that our power to fight for it is38:57look, I I actually I feel incredibly39:00optimistic at them this moment about the39:02future of movie making. I don't feel39:04that way because we're all picking up39:05signs and marching down the street and39:07preaching to people that they need to39:10keep this sacred. I feel optimistic39:12about it because I go to movie theaters39:13and I see them packed with young people39:15who want to go to movie theaters and39:17have that experience. And I see them39:19coming out for new movies. I see them at39:22revival cinemas. I see theaters at 239:25p.m. on a Tuesday showing a Millville39:27film that are just full of young people39:29who are excited to have I feel like39:31there is and then and then you see it39:33with uh you know with with movies that39:35have come out this year. You see it with39:37something like you know Ryan's movie39:38with Sinners or with so many films that39:40have like struck chords with audiences39:42and um created cultural events in ways39:46that you can't tell people you should39:48be. You know, you can't wag your finger39:51at people and say you should be going to39:53the theater and having this theatrical39:54experience, but you feel it rising right39:57now. And so, yeah.39:59>> Came back on its own.40:00>> Yeah. Completely.40:01>> And so, it's for me it's it's it's less40:03that um I don't know. It's it's less40:06that I want to advocate it for it. It's40:08more that I want to ride that wave of it40:10of it coming up because I I think it is,40:13you know. Yeah. And before we're out of40:15time, I just wanted to ask one more40:17question, which is simply, is there a40:18specific fear or insecurity that you40:20feel like you've learned to get over as40:22a director? Nia,40:24>> just the fact that I'm a director, you40:26know? Um,40:27>> I think I used to feel, especially40:30because I made this jump into like40:31studio film and then like an even bigger40:33studio film,40:35just trusting my instinct and like being40:37right and knowing I was right. And I40:40think in earlier films I was right and40:42then I was like, "Okay, maybe I'm not40:43right." Now I'm like, "If I feel I'm40:45right, then I then I'm probably right."40:46But if I'm not right, then that makes40:47sense cuz my department heads are40:49amazing. My producers that I can choose40:50now are here to support me make my film.40:53They're not we're not like in an40:54antagonistic, you know, relationship. So40:56I think that was a big thing for me,40:57just being like, "Oh, my instinct is40:58often correct, and that's why I'm a40:59director."41:00>> For me, I think in a weird way, it's41:02similar of being and similar to you too,41:04is like being in this world of making41:06studio movies. Can what we make matter?41:09Do people care? Um, I remember doing Now41:12You See Me Too at the time and you know,41:14you're just trying to like stay in the41:16job. I was I didn't do independent41:18movies. I didn't do commercial music. I41:19like got gifted into this world um by a41:22lot of generosity and trust. And so I41:24always just I always wanted to prove41:25myself, prove myself. And then when41:26Crazy Rich Asians happened, that was the41:28one I was like, I want to talk about the41:29scariest thing in my life about my41:31cultural Asian, you know, my identity,41:33my c cultural identity crisis because41:35then are people all going to look at me41:36as like just the Asian director from now41:38on, which is like my fear all growing41:40up.41:41>> But when I saw the power of what that41:42movie could do, how it could change41:44casting, it could change all these41:45things. And it wasn't because of that41:46movie, but as part of a whole group of41:48people changing things,41:50>> I realized how sacred this space is.41:53when the lights turn off and you have a41:54deal with the audience and they're41:55giving you money value before they even41:57know what it is and you're sitting and41:59you have a corporation spending money to42:01say these people are beautiful and this42:02story is important and you're sitting42:04down and then you're with your phone off42:06and you're saying tell me a story I42:08don't even spend two hours talking to42:09the people I love the most in a day let42:12you give the space for a movie and if42:13there's anything louder maybe42:14politicians can change things and what42:17but movies can do that too and I think42:19dreaming big in movies saying you don't42:21have to make movies that are necessarily42:23just pessimistic and cyn and cynical42:26that they're movies that can actually42:27show a vision of who we want to be even42:29if it's a fantasy. Yeah, a little42:31spoonful of sugar is fine, but like if42:32you actually are digging at truth and42:34bring people into this fold, I do think42:36it has such powerful and that's why I42:37think we really do need to defend this42:39space and I think people I think young42:41people are seeing it and feeling it. But42:43I think that is like really uh protected42:46space for so I think for me it's like no42:48we can even in something like wicked42:50even in this time um that we can say42:53something and maybe that gives someone42:55the challenge of their lifetime like42:56courage doesn't expire that at any time42:58you can pop your bubble and and not be43:00performant and actually engage um and I43:02think that that that will never leave43:04me.43:04>> Well this has been such a great43:05conversation. Thank you to all of you. I43:07think we've answered some big questions43:09here today and I appreciate it. That was43:11a great job steering through all.43:13>> We solved it all.43:14>> We figure it out. We had faith. We had43:16faith. Done.43:19>> All of us. All of us. Group effort.43:21Group effort. [laughter]43:22>> And thank you so much for your time. All43:24of you. This has been a great43:25conversation. And so for the envelope43:27and the Los Angeles Times, I'm Mark43:28Olsson. Thanks for watching.43:30>> An underseen classic that I would43:32recommend. The Michael Jackson music43:34videos. I think that one of the43:35neglected great Frankenstein movies of43:38the universal cycle is a son of43:40Frankenstein.43:41>> My favorite film of all time. I think it43:44is another unconventional biopic which43:47is Andre verb.43:48>> So I would say uh fine or a celebration.43:50>> There was a very good father movie43:53starring Alec Guinness. [music] Good43:54luck finding that one. There are two43:56kind of fighting movies. One is Fat43:58City, you know, the John Houston, and44:00then um Recqueen for a heavyweight.44:05>> [music]
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