Transcript of S02E18 | Adam Turinas: Selling to Hospitals? Here’s What Actually Works.
Revenue Matters by Recotap
0:02[Music]0:09everyone welcome to the ABM voice0:11podcast this is your host Arun0:13gopalaswami I'm delighted you here and0:16today I speak with Adam trinas CEO and0:19founder of Health Launchpad Marketing0:22consulting firm out of Austin Texas so0:25they help healthtech firms Implement ABM0:28to get better results is an author0:31speaker and a podcaster himself I'm so0:33excited to spend some time today with0:35him and understand how they go about0:37implementing ABM for their clients Adam0:39good morning and welcome to the show0:41hello hi Aaron nice to meet you and uh0:44thank you so much for having me on your0:46show today thank you to thank you for0:48spending some time with me today Adam0:51let's just get started by doing a quick0:54self- introduction I specifically want0:56you to cover what you've written on0:58LinkedIn right so you you're you1:00mentioned that you're a recovering1:02Health Tech entrepreneur talk us through1:05the Journey yeah right good what is that1:07you're goinging from oh yeah yeah PTSD1:11is going to kick in so just a little bit1:14of background about me I I spent1:16actually about 20 something years in1:18marketing mostly working for agencies1:20and a lot of that B2B in technology uh1:23but nothing in healthcare you not even1:26farma and um not even Life Sciences but1:30in about 2012 I was doing some1:33independent Consulting we had this sort1:35of interesting kind of model for1:37communications helping companies improve1:39the way that they communicate1:41particularly you know sort of internal1:43Communications and Communications with1:45partners and a friend of mine is a1:47physician and he said you know the1:49relationship between doctors and the1:52hospitals is broken and they're1:55dependent on each other but because of1:58the changes that were happening in the2:00American Health Care system it was2:02creating a lot of disruption in the way2:05that these two parties operated together2:08and so we were doing so he said well why2:09don't we go take your model your2:11Communications model and then see if it2:13works in healthcare and so we went and2:15did that and we we pretty successful2:18actually in getting several hospitals to2:20adopt it um and about six months into2:23this we said huh I wonder if there's an2:25app for this and we started to think2:28about what a really good2:31Communications application could look2:34like in healthcare and we then took that2:36idea and we pitched it to uh one of our2:40clients who was the CEO of a hospital in2:42New Jersey and he said you build that2:45I'll buy it and so we went and engaged2:48some developers and we developed an MVP2:51minimum viable product we tested it with2:54some of his doctors and they loved it2:56they said this is you know we're really2:58frustrated with so much of the2:59technology we have to use but we love3:01this and so that then became the sort of3:05the spark that then started a seven-year3:09Journey as a health care software3:11engineer bear in mind I no experience in3:14health care at all in fact when I3:16realized we walked into our first3:17hospital castom went into the hospital I3:20hadn't been in a hospital for about 203:22years at that point which is the last3:24time I'd been in was when my son was3:25born so I had no idea and it it is like3:28a parallel universe3:30Dynamics the economics are completely3:32different the titles are different the3:35issues are different and language is3:37completely different and it it was a3:39very steep steep learning curve for me3:41but thankfully my physician business3:43partner helped me3:45navigate the healthc care market and I3:48helped him navigate the business Market3:50between the two of us we were I think3:52kind of a you know a a functioning unit3:55um and so we we had a pretty successful3:58run selling the application4:00into about 25 Health Care Systems across4:03the United States and 25 healthare4:06systems means you know 60 70 hospitals4:10probably about 50,000 clinicians doctors4:13and nurses on the application at its4:16height and then you know we raised money4:20we had Partners we even absorbed another4:24company and changed the name it it4:26became known as UniFi Health um and4:29event eventually we kind of got to the4:31point where we either needed to get a4:33massive injection of capital like4:35another 2030 million to be competitive4:38you know or we needed to to to sell the4:41company and so as a board we decided hey4:43we're selling the company and so the4:44company put up for sale and we went we4:47had an investment banker and um they did4:50a pretty good job and they found us a4:52buyer and uh now the company the the the4:56assets of the company the software which4:58is still still out there it's still4:59being used by many of the many of our5:02former customers is owned by a company5:04called Harris Health but you know I will5:06I will tell you that so the reason why5:08CES of recovering is that it is not5:10something I would do in a hurry again5:12you know I love starting up companies5:13I've started six companies but when I5:15started the next company you know I said5:18to myself I want to do a Services5:20Company because I don't want to raise5:21money again and I don't want to have5:23pressure of investors on on your back5:25and you know I want something which is5:28sort of has a from cash flow standpoint5:30is easier to manage than a software5:32company and that's why I got back into5:33my first love which is which is5:35marketing but the point about ABM is5:38that you know I one of the toughest5:41things for me was that as somebody as a5:43long-standing marketer I found it5:45incredibly hard to Market to the5:48healthcare Market you know as I said you5:50know the the buyers are very different5:53sales Cycles are incredibly long and5:55slow and the number of people who are5:57involved in the whole process the buy a5:59collective is much bigger than it is in6:02many other6:03markets and so you know I felt that the6:06purpose behind you know I wanted to6:09create a company with a purpose and the6:11purpose was to help solve that problem6:13which is making it easier or at least6:16helping you know companies that are6:18struggling to sell to Health Care6:20organizations develop a more effective6:23way of selling to and so that was the6:25idea behind Health Launchpad awesome6:28what's the friction point that you6:30mentioned about the doctors and the6:31hospital so where does it start well a6:35very interesting question um so you know6:39traditionally the US Healthcare Market6:42has been it's called physician Centric6:45which is the Physicians you know mostly6:48until relatively recently like the last6:50couple of decades were mostly6:52independent they didn't work for6:54hospitals they had their own practices6:57and the hospitals were dependent on the7:01Physicians to bring them the patients so7:05the Physicians actually had you know7:07they have this privileged relationship7:10with the hospitals in uh was about 10 157:13years ago now um the um you know the the7:17Affordable Care7:19Act uh came in um and that has change7:24the relationship because it it it7:27changes the focus of Health care to be7:30much more patient7:32Centric to be much more focused on the7:35needs of the patient and so and also and7:39also what H7:40so the the economic impact of that is7:44that the reimbursements that Physicians7:46get have gone down and so the Physicians7:49were suddenly gone from being the sort7:50of privileged people to being like well7:52wait a second the hospitals are actually7:55maybe you know they still value us but7:57not as much as they value the patients7:59and the other thing is the the other8:01change that happened is is that they8:03were getting less money and so suddenly8:06there's this sort of massive friction8:08and part of what happened was that8:10hospitals then started acquiring The8:12Physician practices and so you end up8:14with this kind of messy situation of um8:18Physicians who work for the the8:19hospitals who were even more disgruntled8:22than the Physicians who had independent8:23practices and everybody was complaining8:26about not making enough money and so8:27there's a lot of lot of tension in in8:31the healthcare industry and frankly it's8:32still there um I I just think it's you8:35know it's moved on a bit since then so8:38when you go and then Implement ABM for8:40hospitals are the doctors are are they8:44one of the influencers no so what we8:48implement we Implement ABM not for8:51hospitals we Implement ABM for8:53healthcare technology companies selling8:55to hospitals correct right so corre so8:59what we so you know the what we're doing9:02is is we're helping them figure out you9:05know out of the 6,000 hospitals in the9:09US or you know thousand or so payers9:14insurance companies which ones are in9:17market for what they sell so for example9:22if they're selling9:23a um piece of technology which helps9:26them engage patients more successfully9:30so improve the communication and the way9:32that they manage patients through the9:34process right what we'll do is say Okay9:37of all of the hospitals out there out of9:40the 6,000 us hospitals or500 Health Care9:44Systems here are the 300 that seem to be9:48in market for what you9:50do then let's so then so then the next9:53step is9:54then okay who's involved in the buying9:57decision so probably the chief nursing10:00officer is is taking the lead because10:03it's about patient engagement possibly10:06the chief Innovation officer and you10:09know the CIO is probably not that10:11involved might be involved later but10:13maybe there's a VP of applications Who's10:15involved and then there are a whole10:17group of10:18influencers you know there's probably10:19about a dozen of them and so we'll help10:22the CL companies clients build out you10:24know what looks like the buyer10:25Collective and then use that under10:29understand to understand what are their10:32needs what are the what are the issues10:35that these buyers deal with so how are10:39they defining their problem what10:42solution options do they have and then10:45you know what vendors will be in the10:47considered set and make sure that you10:50know figure out how do we position our10:51clients in that considered set and we'll10:54use that thinking about the accounts the10:58biy Collective the buer journey as the11:02basic Foundation of an ABM campaign a11:06program so that might include you know11:08some demand generation you know it might11:11include some lead generation as well11:14using social selling and a lot of11:17content so is that what do you say doing11:20what you do right so it's it's easier to11:23to go vertical right you've chosen11:25health care right so yeah I think this11:28is the first time I'm speaking with11:29somebody who's actually focused on a11:31particular segment or a vertical right11:34and and how do you see um what are the11:37advantages disadvantages so I think you11:39talked about how the universe is like11:41very restricted and I'm thinking about11:44right your clients I think since you go11:47really deep and you have some11:49information right because you've been11:51engaged and trying to focus on the 6,00011:54Hospital right which is your Universe11:56right maybe I'm filling the answers but11:58why don't you just uh help me understand12:00so it's interesting so uh I guess your12:03you know qu maybe if I could just12:05reframe your question is is why choose12:08why you know be a vertical ABM firm12:12right why why why pick just just12:15Healthcare um and I think the reason is12:17is that I picked healthc care first and12:19then ABM okay you're right yeah and and12:23I'll tell you I'll tell you the story12:25behind it um is you know when I first12:27set out I thought you know well what do12:30I know so well I know B2B marketing and12:34I know about hospitals and patients and12:36I know about selling to healthcare so12:38I'm going to have an agency which is a12:40B2B agency and we'll do B2B marketing12:44and then we'll also do patient marketing12:45and we'll also do Healthcare marketing12:47and this friend of mine said what are12:48you you talk I like you're totally12:50confusing me and he said by the you know12:53and as far as your you know your own12:56personal um expertise is is you know you13:00what you really the only thing I'd hire13:02you for this friend of mine tell you is13:03your expertise in healthcare and13:05Healthcare technology in13:07particular so I'd focus on that so he13:10you're right so I started with that and13:13then you know as I then so so we're a13:15health Tech started being a health Tech13:16B B2B agency as I started that I then13:20realized that well B2B is actually ABM13:23these days and that really my my13:25personal experience with my Healthcare13:27company had been much more ABM like than13:30sort of traditional13:31B2B um because we didn't have the13:33budgets to do sort of like Mass B2B13:36where spending you know hundreds of13:38thousands of dollars and so that's kind13:41of how I ended up here we're now in the13:43fourth year of of operation and I think13:47we're pretty well established as the13:50healthc care ABM13:53agency and so what we're doing very13:56carefully is thinking about how we can14:00extend out of out of health care but14:04without undermining what we're doing and14:06in fact what we do what we've done to do14:08this is we've we've launched a second14:10brand called total customer growth um14:14and that you know the book we'll talk14:15about the book in a bit I'm sure but the14:18the the you know one of the reasons for14:20writing the book was to give give us14:23credibility outside of outside of14:26healthcare and so the whole idea behind14:28to you know one of one of the the ideas14:30behind total customer growth was to be14:32able to launch a second business called14:35total customer growth.com which is not14:38industry14:39specific so how how do you differentiate14:42Health launch pad right from a a generic14:46horizontally focused agency or a14:49consulting company like what advantage14:51do you bring in of course you have14:53experience in running your previous firm14:55you understand the bi personas and all14:57of that but other than that are there14:59anything that you bring in that a gend g15:02type that's it I mean and but that is15:04something that is that's really15:06important because you know as a marketer15:09if you're really stretched right the15:12sort of Chief marketing officer VP of15:14marketing marketing directors they're15:16stretched they don't have the time to15:20teach the agency how to do their job15:24right they expect the agency to know how15:26to do the job right and it's hard15:29Healthcare is really hard it's really15:32hard to understand and so with our15:36clients they don't need to teach us15:38Healthcare in fact we you know in some15:40cases we've actually had some situations15:42where we've got companies that are you15:44know in other Industries and have15:46expanded into Healthcare or Healthcare15:48as a part of what they do and we've15:50actually helped coach the marketing15:52people on Healthcare we've taught them15:54we Pro we've got all kinds of resources15:56to help teach them and so so you know15:59the decision is is like do I want to16:02work with the biggest ABM agency if I16:04want to work with the biggest ABM agency16:06it's not us but if I want to work with16:08an ABM agency that understands Health16:11Care you know you you we're one of one16:14of a short a small group I mean there16:17are some other big agencies that have a16:19strong health care practice sure and I16:21but I don't know whether they've got the16:23depth of and I know this firsthand16:26because early on um in the life of this16:29company I I did a lot of work as a16:30fractional CMO and as a fractional CMO16:33we actually St we actually hadir an16:35agency an inbound agency uh with a very16:39I fantastic reputation and they said16:42they had some health care16:44experience and we were so frustrated16:47working with them we fired them within16:4990 days in fact we fir we made the16:51decision within 30 days that we realized16:53within 30 days we'd made a terrible16:55mistake and it wasn't just that it was16:58had to teach them Healthcare it was just17:00when you teach it they didn't take it17:02seriously it's like they just didn't get17:05the difference the nuances and I found17:07that incredibly frustrating and in fact17:09one of the reasons why I went from doing17:11fractional CMO work which is what I was17:13doing in the first year to building an17:15agency was just like I I couldn't find17:18an agency that would suit you know suit17:21our needs frankly H interesting so17:25earlier in the conversation you talked17:27about how you identify17:29in market accounts right for your your17:31clients customers how do you go about17:34doing it well it's it's all about buying17:36signals right so I mean the first step17:39is trying to apply a discipline in17:42account selection and to be honest a lot17:44of companies don't have much discipline17:46right they just say they pick the17:48largest accounts or they just go we're17:49going for the complete market and we'll17:50segment them based on size so you know17:54the first question we'll ask is you know17:56is there a way to identify what a best17:58fit customer looks like for you so18:00that's kind of the first filter then18:02when we're specifically looking for in18:05market accounts we'll use different18:07sources of data so intent data is the18:12you know is the but there are three18:14types of intent data first party second18:18party third party first party is data18:21that happens on your channels so on your18:26website you know and you could and there18:27are tools that you can put in place to18:29identify some of the accounts that are18:33hitting the website whether they18:35register for something register for an18:37event for example that's first party18:38intent data or engage with you through18:40social media so that's that's one one18:43bucket second party intent data is18:47things like G2 and capterra who were18:49where where um they will you know18:53specifically people come to those18:55websites to do comparison shopping and18:58so that's a fantastic intense signal19:00particularly for Mid to lower funnel and19:02then there's this whole wonderful world19:06of third party intent data um and you19:10know just for anybody who is who's not19:12familiar with it you know what there are19:15different ways of gathering intent data19:17but essentially what intent data19:19companies do is that they aggregate19:22buying19:23signals across the internet and then19:27organize them a way which helps you19:29identify who might be in Market19:31specifically for what you do so you know19:34there's the leading companies are19:35companies like bombora and zoom info has19:38very good intent data these days and19:39then there's intented from netline and19:43and and and there are it's you know and19:45then a lot of uh big media companies now19:47have their own intent data so that whole19:50area is is exploding I will say one19:53thing which is none of it is19:56perfect uh it is it is not it feels like20:00magic because it sells you who's in20:03Market but it's not perfect and it can20:05be deceptive so for example with one of20:08our clients we um switched on intent20:11data with their20:14sdrs and in the first week they20:18identified an in-market Prospect and got20:20an got into an RFP process that they20:22didn't even know about within within a20:24week and so that was like20:27magic it isn't it that doesn't happen20:30every day however what we ALS what we do20:32find is that you know we work with other20:34sdrs we'll show them we we'll provide20:37them with list of like look here are the20:38in market accounts and we are seeing a20:41better conversion rate with those20:43accounts than just purely cold accounts20:46the way I would characterize it is it's20:48a bit like card counting at Blackjack20:51you know if you're famar with that20:52notion which is it's not I'm not a20:54gambler and I don't I know how to play20:55Blackjack but I don't play it but I'm20:56familiar with the notion of C counting20:58which is you sit there long enough at21:00the table that you can start to work out21:02the odds of what C card's going to come21:04up right and so it doesn't mean you're21:06going to win every hand but you're going21:08to win over the course of a night you're21:09going to win more hands and that's what21:11I think value of intent dayer is it21:14improves your odds of conversion it's21:16not perfect but in general for uh21:19fintech because your clients are21:22targeting hospitals right hospitals21:25maybe in some cases phys uh doctors for21:27example right and some of these21:29audiences are not really digitally21:32present right and I think there are21:34Industries like fortical I don't know21:37where Healthcare fits in right are the21:39intent data especially third party21:41intent right so does it work they are21:44yeah so first of all we're not targeting21:46doctors um you're not okay no we're not21:49uh because we're they're not the21:50typically the buyers the only doctors we21:52might be targeting are the chief medical21:54officers or the sort of or the or the21:57clinician EXA21:58and what we're and the mindset that we22:00are targeting in them is not a physician22:03mindset it's a business mindset sure and22:07so they are on22:09LinkedIn um LinkedIn is we find is quite22:12effective the really bizarre thing is is22:14that you know you can see a LinkedIn who22:16is engaging most with the ads and we we22:18get the highest engagement rate with22:20Chief nursing22:22officers um and um so they are there22:27they they're what ministrators Chief22:29nursing officers Chief nursing so they22:31are you know they they are nurses who22:33have become basically they are the22:35department heads for22:37nursing um and but they are you know22:40they're clinically trained and came up22:42through the nursing ranks and so they22:45are they are present and if they are you22:48know involved in a buyer Collective and22:50the committee right the buyer group yeah22:52they will be out searching and22:55researching and so you you can get them22:58across all of these different different23:00channels so I couldn't say whether it23:03works better in other markets than it23:06does in healthare but we find that it is23:09effective in healthcare that's good23:11that's that's good to hear and the in23:14terms of let's say you acquire a health23:16Tech client right so what's the process23:18that you follow and I think you just23:19talked about helping them acquiring the23:22best fit account to start with right so23:25essentially a small part which is in23:27Market account and then maybe another23:29set of buckets you also help in demand23:32right so talk us through the process in23:33terms of how you approach okay so you we23:36have a process we call it the ABM23:37Playbook and it's a systematic process23:40it's collab done collaboratively with23:42our clients and so you know we'll start23:44off by doing you know level setting and23:47goal setting what does success look like23:50you know in the next 90 days what does23:53success look like in the next 365 days23:56what does success look like in three23:58years you know that kind of way of24:00setting so Le you can understand it's24:02like what are the goals that they're24:04trying to trying to24:06achieve and then you know we'll go24:08through a segmentation analysis with24:10them and it starts out with the24:12analytical right so it's understanding24:15which segments of the healthc Care24:18Market um they want to go after and and24:21one of the things is you know we've got24:22a lot of data on this in fact if you if24:25you Google healthcare providers seg M24:28mentation with the number one search24:30link that comes up because we've written24:33several a lot of a lot of content on24:35this and particularly a white paper24:36which I think is the only one of its24:37kind that segments the provider the the24:41the healthcare Market in a way which is24:42really helpful for marketers and so they24:46might say you know what we're only24:48interested in the uh Hospital market and24:53then it's like well which hospital Mark24:54which siid because you know there's a24:57big difference between a small rural25:00Hospital in the middle of Idaho and you25:03know a large healthc Care Organization25:07based in New York City a Hu massively25:10different and so what we'll do is then25:13go through this segmentation exercise25:16with them and quite often particularly25:18for company's early stage we go for what25:20we call the Goldilocks hospitals they're25:24not too big they're not too small you25:26know they tend to be sort of Regional25:28Health Care Systems and they're actively25:30buying and they're they usually they've25:34got big enough budgets to be able to buy25:38s sign large systems but they're not so25:41huge that it's that the sales the sales25:43Cycles are going to be short relatively25:45short relatively short in healthcare25:47means nine25:49months25:51yeah um yeah so and so that's the sort25:56of you know that that's the initial25:57stage of how we go through the25:58segmentation and then you know the next26:01step is then so who's involved in the26:04buyer group so we have a whole system26:06for identifying the buyer Collective and26:09what we're looking for is what we call26:12the maniac with a mission so who's the26:15person who's like a change agent within26:18the organization who's going to be most26:20responsive to the marketing and is going26:23to initiate the process of getting our c26:27ience engaged to at least at least an26:31initial conversation and that's you know26:34quite often that is the champion right26:35as the champion but there also there26:37other folks right so there's the26:39decision makers there may be an economic26:41buyer there may be you know a key26:43influencer who's really a decision maker26:45there's multiple influencers so we map26:48all that out that's the the next that's26:51stage you know call it stage three right26:54one is goals two is segment by26:56segmentation and three is the buyer26:59Collective Now stage four is where it27:01gets really interesting because this is27:03where we build out a buyer journey and27:06we have a very detailed methodology27:08around that and the way that we think27:10about so you know traditional marketing27:12methodology is awareness interest you27:15know a a decision action which is fine27:19you know it's tried and true but it27:21reflects us as marketers it doesn't27:23reflect how buyers buy that's right so27:26we think about this into terms of the27:28way that buyers buy so the way that27:29buyers buy is Step One is we've got a27:32problem we need to think about the27:35problem and we need to define the27:37problem step two is defining the27:41solution and that's the interesting27:43thing is is that that's actually where27:45they have the biggest problem they're27:46not by the way at that stage they're not27:48looking at vendors they're thinking27:49about should we go outside should we27:51build it inhouse should we do it through27:53Partnerships which can we just use our27:55existing technology which is actually27:56usually where they start with right and27:58then step three is vendor evaluation and28:01then step four is decisioning and around28:04each one of those steps we go through28:06and think about what are the key issues28:08that they have at each gr what are the28:10questions that they have what are the28:12triggers that start a process we use um28:16and if a client will let us do it we'll28:18go out and do customer research on that28:20so we'll interview their customers we'll28:22interview prospective customers um we'll28:25use lots of different types of third-28:26party debt data to inform that buyer28:30Journey so that's actually it's like the28:32heaviest lifting in the whole project is28:34on developing the buyer Journey once28:36you've got the buyer Journey the rest is28:39you know is ba built off that foundation28:42so the bio the content strategy28:45addresses the buyer Journey so you have28:48content which is designed to help them28:50with problem definitions content which28:52is designed to help them solution28:54definition vendor selection content28:56decisioning content and then a tactical28:59framework underneath that to get that29:01content in front of the buyers at the29:03right stage so that might include you29:06know LinkedIn advertising it might use29:07programmatic it might include arming the29:10sdrs so that they have the right content29:12to use a different and the diff at the29:15different stages of of the buyer's29:17journey and so again everything is29:20informed by the buyer29:23Journey excellent it's quite elaborate29:25I'm wondering so your sales Cycles right29:28so for your clients is typically you29:30said starting with 9 months I'm assuming29:33it could easily be double right so how29:35do you keep a prospect engaged so29:38content for sure right but in terms of29:41day-to-day workings right so how29:44granular let's say the the mapping29:46document or planning that you talked29:48about how granular does it get and what29:50are the different channels through which29:52you engage to run like physical events29:53and things like that oh everything I29:55mean it's so once once you've got a29:59buyer an account identified as being30:03engaged in market and engaged so by the30:05way we also you know that part of this30:06is once we're running the campaigns is30:08how we actually measure measure the30:11effectiveness of it and frankly more30:13importantly track accounts as they move30:15through the process and so you know that30:18means that early on you identifying the30:22the the the accounts that seem to be30:24more engaged and the accounts that30:25you're able to get leads with and then30:28how are they they qualified and so when30:31you get to that sort of stage where30:33you're nurturing a30:35relationship at that point to be honest30:37with you we're more you know we're more30:39moved into a you know less of the driver30:41mode and more in the sort of backseat30:43mode of supporting the salese so you30:46know for example and there are things30:47that you can do right so for example if30:50you know that you've got a big event30:52coming up you know a big trade show and30:54you're going to have a a booth there and30:56maybe a a sponsor um what can you do to31:01with the with the accounts that are seem31:03to be most engaged but haven't yet you31:06know got it become a a clear and31:08identified opportunity how do you get31:10them to actually talk to you and31:12schedule meetings at the events and31:14there are lots of different tactics you31:16can do so one of the things that we're31:17starting to experiment with is geot31:19targeting so for example doing31:21programmatic advertising at an event so31:25that the uh31:27specific targets that you're trying to31:29reach get an offer or you know um31:33message targeted to them to try and get31:35them to come and visit you at at the31:37event at least make you aware of why31:39they should do that right cor so the31:42traditional ABM tools and platforms does31:45it work good uh if not like are there31:48any special special consideration or31:50anything that you sort of Miss when it31:52comes to tooling so the ABM tools I31:55think the value of them is so you can do31:58ABM manually right you can do it but32:01it's very hard work and it's really32:03difficult particularly over long sales32:05Cycles to kind of keep keep the32:08continuity and so the value you know I32:11think the value of the int of the ABM32:13tools is first of all you get the you32:15know the intent data comes packaged with32:17it and you can aggregate the the the the32:19different signals so it gives you these32:22you know they they're really good at32:23organizing the different signals around32:25the account so that's number one it's32:26very hard to do that manually and then32:28secondly is is that as you run campaigns32:31you can see the accounts moving through32:33the pipeline or at least through that32:35you know through the bio Journey you32:36know you can use uh the measurement32:39tools to see what was working what was32:41so they they' they've got real value in32:43that and frankly the the marketing32:45automation systems don't do that as well32:48so there is real value to it again you32:51can do it manually um and in fact when I32:53had my own company and we were doing ABM32:55frankly without realizing we were doing32:57ABM we didn't have any much much of the32:58way of tools and it was working okay33:01it's very very hard to scale without one33:04of those platforms understood so at what33:06point do you start introducing an SDR33:10into the buying process is it very33:12linear or you start getting involved33:14initially or when I love this question33:16um I I think that uh the the the analogy33:20I use is a very American analogy is is33:22like the sdrs in and and ABM is like33:25peanut butter and jelly like they they33:27go together so you know think about you33:30know another way to think about the the33:32the buying motion is you know marketing33:36is initially warming up and identifying33:39in market and engaged accounts and who33:42the buyer who the buyer Collective is at33:45that point it's then a conversation with33:47the sdrs to say you know don't know if33:49these guys are ready yet but these guys33:51seem to be high intent topics so you33:54might want to start by doing a bit of33:56social Outreach reach you know looking33:58at them on on LinkedIn and and figuring34:01out how you're going to engage with them34:03liking their Co their posts commenting34:05on their posts following them you know34:08initially maybe stand off don't be you34:11know don't be don't be in too much of a34:12hurry um but then also you know working34:15with them to figure out what are the34:17sorts of things that we can do to get34:18them to put the hand up you know to to34:20to raise the hands um and then it's kind34:23of up to the frankly it's up to the sdrs34:26to f figure out what the the right34:29timing is to actually do the Outreach um34:32how do they34:33decide just very34:36in you know it's it's hard actually um34:41you know it's it's a lot of it's34:43intuitive but what we I say it's34:45interestingly we found is when the sdrs34:47are using intent data you know sdrs are34:50working off multiple lists and if34:52everything hopefully is in their CRM34:54what we found is that when they've got34:56an intent list they start the day with34:58the intent list because they know that35:00those you know those are where they've35:01got the highest odds what would you know35:03what what we do with them is then train35:05them on you know so part of it is35:08routine and so one of the things that we35:10insist with clients is that you know if35:12we're going to work with you on this ABM35:15program we must have at least one weekly35:18meeting with the sdrs to talk about what35:21are we seeing you know who's in Market35:24who's responding what can we do to help35:27what tools do you need what nurture35:29sequences are helpful to you um and so35:33you know that fostering that35:35collaboration in fact you know I think35:37the onus is on marketing to be quite35:39assertive in making that collaboration35:42happen interesting what exactly gets35:45discussed there right how do you help do35:47you help them with content do you help35:49them with I don't know to make35:51connections like how do you help from35:53the marketing side of thing well there's35:55the there's you know there's tat IAL and35:57the strategics on the Tactical side it's35:59yeah what you know what nurture36:00sequences do you do you need um what36:03content you know if you want to try and36:05reach out to them on LinkedIn is there's36:07some content that you could leverage to36:09to do that you know that's the kind of36:11thing which is tactically helping them36:13with specific accounts and then there's36:15the more strategic stuff so for example36:18teaching them you know social selling so36:21we do a CO we do quite a lot of coaching36:23on social selling as well because it's36:25it's surprising to me how few sales36:27people really understand how to use36:30LinkedIn MH talk to us about some best36:33practices from the social selling36:35coaching social selling wow uh that's a36:38whole that's a whole six other podcasts36:40I'll tell you what I do36:42myself um first of all you know your36:45your profile needs to be really well36:49thought through you know it needs to the36:52moment of truth is when you send a an36:56Outreach36:57it might not even be it may it may be36:59you know could be an email could be a37:01connection request maybe it's commenting37:05that when somebody you're you're37:06reaching out to checks out your profile37:09that they see something where okay I I37:12think I might be able to trust this37:14person that this person has something of37:16value for me and the problem right now37:19on LinkedIn is that it comes to the37:20point where you know I I turn down 90%37:24of the connection requests I get because37:26it's just somebody who I know is37:28immediately going to try and sell me37:29something I don't need and and it's37:32probably automated and so you've got to37:35kind of overcome that and so your37:37profile is incredibly important because37:40people will check out your profile so37:42that's step one and then step two it's37:44about you know how you nurture that37:47relationship the kind of the what a lot37:50of people are doing is using either37:52automated sequences or sort of program37:55sequences that they might send out37:57themselves they just don't work well you38:00know people kind of know that that's38:03that they're that they're in a sequence38:06and um so they don't work as well as38:09they used to um a lot of what what I38:11find you know is important is is that38:13the way that you use38:15content and post that on LinkedIn and38:19share that and then proactively share it38:21with prospects that earns the right to38:24have a commun to have a conversation38:26with them and so there's all kinds of38:28different ways of doing that which is38:31way more than we can cover I think just38:33this38:34this at what point do you go and then go38:37to this uh connection that you've38:40established and then said hey I have an38:42Ask do you need the service or like38:44anything that you wanted to make right38:46when do you38:47think this is you've got to kind of38:49figure out the right point to push you38:51know you you can't wait the whole way38:53through for them to say okay what do you38:56do38:57you know you have to make you know so38:59there is a there is some Cadence to it39:02so you know I I like the some notion of39:05give three things and then make an ask39:07so Share three pieces of content and39:10then ask the ask might be hey we're39:14running an event on XYZ would you like39:16to attend um a lot of salese are doing39:19podcasts now would you like to be on my39:21podcast I think that's going to wear39:22itself out by the way but but it is39:24that's that's a technique we're having a39:26private event at this trade show I'd39:30love you to attend would you be39:31interested it's got to be a respectful39:33thing the sort of thing which is sort of39:35like connect you know39:37follow follow connect and Pitch doesn't39:41work doesn't work uh and and and frankly39:44is I wish it would stop because it's39:46ruining39:48LinkedIn I think it's common sense I39:50don't know but why is it not common39:53right that people still continue to I39:55think people are using the same metrics39:57that work with with email which is you39:59send out a million emails you might get40:01through know you you might get 5040:04responses and so you know unfortunately40:07the problem with you know the problem40:09with automation is is that and is that40:11it's just scaling it and so it's it's40:14turning LinkedIn to LinkedIn is becoming40:17as spammy as email because of that it is40:21but it's one of the effective channels40:23nobody knows how long and unfortunately40:25it's being Ru it is being ruined right40:28excellent um Adam this has been like a40:30fascinating last 45 minutes of40:32conversation love to keep going but um I40:36think we'll call it a day so thank you40:39again for taking time and talking to me40:41so we'll make sure that put all the40:43links that we talked about right so40:45people can access absolutely and if40:47there is how can people reach out to you40:49well first connect to me on LinkedIn40:51connect to or follow me uh Adam Chinas40:54Tu r Nas uh there's only one of me on40:59LinkedIn and the company is Health41:01Launchpad so health launchpad.com so you41:05can reach out to me there or you can41:07email me at Adam health launchpad.com41:11exent and thank you so much it's41:13wonderful talking to you thank you41:16appreciate it have a good41:18[Applause]41:22one
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