Transcript of James Sexton’s Struggle With Faith | #046 | Unlearned Wisdom by @johnnychanglive
Unlearned Wisdom by Johnny Chang
0:00Alrighty guys, welcome to another0:03episode on the Unlearn Wisdom podcast0:05with yours truly, Johnny Chang. Today we0:08have a very special guest and his name0:12actually I'm going to let him introduce0:13himself.0:14>> Who are you guest and where are you from0:16and why are you here? [laughter] Let me0:18check.0:18>> How did you get in here?0:19>> Let me check my ID. Those are separate0:21questions. So those are those are0:23easier. One of them is easier than the0:24other. I'm James Ston. Uh who am I? I'm0:27a divorce lawyer from New York City that0:29somehow everybody knows. Uh, and I0:31suddenly became uh, America's divorce0:33lawyer. Uh, why am I here? That could be0:36a really long question depending on how0:37you want me to answer it. And when it's0:39asked by a Christian, I'm always a0:40little more nervous [laughter] because0:43my answer would have been, why am I0:45here? I'm here to talk on a podcast. But0:47they were like, no, you're here to0:48glorify the Lord. So, I I don't really0:50want to [laughter] I don't know which0:51which if we were speaking existentially0:53or if we were speaking, but I'm I'm here0:55to uh to sit down with my fellow uh0:58Softwight Underbelly alumnist and uh and1:01have a probably an overdue conversation1:03together. We got a lot of overlap of the1:05things that we think about and talk1:07about and uh yeah, I'm I'm just thrilled1:09to be here. So, thanks for having me.1:10>> There's something funny about that1:12because you guys are like the most1:13viewed, the most normal people with the1:15highest viewed episode on Soft White on1:17your mind. interesting.1:18>> You know, it was funny. I was I was a1:20fan of Soft Wet Underbelly for a really1:22long time before I ever appeared on it.1:25And I I never imagined I would appear on1:27it. I mean, and and when I say I was a1:28fan, like I wasn't just somebody who1:29would click on it when I'd see an1:31interesting interview. I was a1:33subscriber. Like I paid the whatever 101:34bucks a month for the, you know, all1:36access. You paid legit. Like, yeah, I1:38put that credit card down.1:40>> What What drew you to the channel at1:41first?1:42>> It's a good question. And I mean I for1:44me I felt like it was it was an exercise1:47in radical empathy. Like I I felt like1:50it1:51>> it put me in the right headsp space to1:53watch those videos because living in New1:55York City it's really easy to get very1:58jaded. Like New York is a place where1:59you're just surrounded with people and2:01and feeling completely alone a lot of2:03the time and you develop this callous2:05because there's just people laying on2:07the streets like addicts and there's2:09just it's so easy to become just2:11indifferent, you know, and I like to to2:15think about things that are important2:18and and when I um when I saw the channel2:21the first time, I remember watching it2:22and thinking, you know, I'm so fortunate2:25like I really should more often think2:27about for because you watch these2:29episodes of people with like severe2:31substance use disorder, people, you2:32know, who2:33>> and now you're learning about their2:35background and how they were abused as a2:37child or how they were victims, you2:39know, of of some kind of of or multiple2:41kinds of trauma and you start to go, you2:44know what, there but for the grace of2:45God go I like I, you know, I am I am a2:48few traumas from having gone a2:50completely different path.2:51>> 100%. And so I felt like the channel's2:54really good for that and it was good for2:55me because it would remind me that, you2:58know, this is this is who somebody who I3:00could just as easily be.3:02>> Amen.3:02>> You know,3:02>> so how did you get discovered?3:05>> Well, what's funny, you know, I've been3:06a practicing divorce lawyer for 27 years3:09now. And for the first 20 years of my3:12career, actually the first 10 years of3:13my career just represented what I would3:15call civilians, like regular people,3:17just, you know, W2 wage earners, you3:19know, a cop and a teacher. They got a3:21house, couple of kids, 401k. It was kind3:23of straightforward. But I developed a3:25reputation pretty quickly as being a3:27skilled trial lawyer. And you know, when3:29you're a good trial lawyer, you you3:31start to move up in the direction. And I3:33started representing higher and higher3:34net worth people. For a while, it was3:36like, okay, my client's worth a million3:38bucks. That's a lot of money. And it3:39was, okay, my client's worth 100 million3:41bucks. That's a lot of money. And now,3:43you know, one of my clients is worth3:44eight billion dollars. you know, I3:46started representing celebrities,3:48actors, athletes, um you know, a lot of3:50professional athletes, a lot of uh uh3:53musicians, you know, different different3:55high net worth professions. But because3:56I'm in New York City, a lot of my3:58clients, you would they're in finance,4:00so you would never know them, you know,4:03like the Golden Globes is happening, you4:05know, right around now. And uh everybody4:06knows the people walking on that red4:08carpet, but like one of my clients could4:10buy most of them.4:12>> Jesus. What's What's your client's name?4:14Does he want friends?4:14>> Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's4:16right. I wish, you know, it's so funny4:17because I wish sometimes I could talk4:18about my clients with specificity, but4:20obviously they're,4:21>> you know, their their confidentiality.4:22[laughter]4:23>> No fun. Boring.4:25>> Yeah. Yeah. I Every once in a while the4:26press will leak something of of of a4:28case I'm working on and I'm like, "Oh,4:30good. Now I can talk about it."4:31[laughter]4:32Somebody else blew up their spot, you4:34know. Yeah. So, I I um I really liked4:36the channel and I was a fan of it and I4:38thought, you know, this is a really4:39useful thing. And one day my assistant4:42comes in and she goes, "Yeah, there's a4:44guy on the phone4:45>> named Mark. He says he's from like Soft4:47White Bellies or something." [laughter]4:48She looked at me like, "Is it a4:50restaurant?" You know,4:51>> and I I'll tell you the truth, my first4:53thought was, "Wow, like did my credit4:55card get declined? Like [laughter]4:57that's odd, you know, like some maybe I5:00change cards. It gets hacked all the5:01time." [laughter] And uh and so I picked5:04up and I recognized the voice. I'd never5:06seen Mark before, but I just heard the5:08voice.5:08>> Distinct voice.5:09>> Yeah. And he's like, you know, he5:10introduced, he's like, "Hi, I'm Mark5:12from from Software, whatever." I said,5:13"Oh, yeah." I I said, "What's going on?"5:15I said, "You know, I'm a subscriber."5:17And he goes, "Oh, really? Oh, that's5:18cool. Thanks." You know, and I was like,5:19"What is this about?" And he was like,5:21"Oh, I I I really like your stuff and I'5:23I'd like you to be on the show."5:25>> But real quick, you were putting out5:26content. Like, how are content? So, in5:29in 2018, I wrote a book. I wrote a book5:32called um If You're in My Office, It's5:34Already Too Late: A Divorce Lawyer's5:35Guide to Staying Together. Jeez.5:37>> And it's a it's a book about it's a5:39Yeah. It's a book about,5:41>> you know, what you can learn about5:43keeping things together by watching how5:45they fall apart.5:46>> Like I I I've had You want to talk about5:48unlearned wisdom? Like I5:50>> I've unintentionally developed this like5:54wisdom of what makes Because here's the5:56thing like,5:57>> you know, it's hard to define5:58intelligence, but you could spot stupid6:00a mile away, [laughter]6:02>> you know? So I I feel sort of like you6:05saw him6:06>> and I feel I feel like6:08>> it's hard to define a really good6:10romantic relationship or a good6:11marriage, but you boy, you see a bad one6:13and you're like that was bad.6:15>> Yeah. So So having spent so much time6:17with marriages that just completely fell6:19apart catastrophically and ended up in6:22divorce,6:23>> I feel like I've I've learned a lot6:25about how things fall apart. Like if you6:27wanted to learn about keeping your car6:30in good condition, you wouldn't talk to6:32like a new car dealer.6:33>> Sure.6:34>> You talk to a mechanic because they've6:35seen how it breaks down and they would6:37tell you, "Oh, here's all the friction6:38points where your your car is going to6:39break down."6:40>> So that's, you know, why I wrote the6:42book and then like anytime you write a6:44book, they give you a publicist and they6:46set up appearances. So I did Steve6:48Harvey Show, Rachel Ray, like a bunch of6:51those kinds of shows.6:52>> But, you know, I have a full-time job as6:54a trial lawyer. I was not interested in6:56becoming famous or well-known. I was6:58kind of the people who needed to know7:00who I was knew who I was and that was7:01it.7:02>> And then, you know, Mark reached out. I7:05guess he'd seen an interview and read7:07read my book. And this is only about two7:10years ago. And he uh he called and said,7:13you know, I'd love to have you on the7:14channel. And I said, you know, I'm not a7:16fentanyl addicted prostitute, right?7:18like [laughter]7:19I don't know what you've heard, but7:20that's you know I'm I'm I'm not7:22[laughter] you know and he said no I'm7:24trying to do some other things. I'm7:26trying to talk to some other other7:28people that are interesting and have a a7:30different kind of life. He's like and I7:32think that from reading your book and7:34your interviews plus Mark's divorced and7:36and he kind of you know knows what that7:38experience is like.7:40>> So what was funny is you know I had a7:42very traditional conservative profession7:45that I'm in. like I'm still 5 days a7:47week in court, you know. And so I uh he7:50was recording at the W Hotel in Time7:52Square and he said, "Okay, here's the7:54time to come over. Just come on over."7:56And so I I decided to walk because it's7:58not too far from my my apartment and my8:00uh my office, which is like I'm very8:02spoiled in New York City. I've got my8:04apartment, my office, my gym, and where8:07I train Brazilian jiu-jitsu all within8:09like two blocks. So I I never have to go8:11very far. M. And so I was like, "Oh,8:13I'll walk to Times Square to go to this8:15hotel." So I I'm walking that way and it8:17was like August and it was really hot.8:19It was like 100° in New York City. So I8:21took off my suit jacket. I rolled up my8:23sleeves. I undid my collar a little bit.8:26>> And when I went in, you know, you know,8:28you sit down and you kind of don't feel8:30like you're being recorded. Like it just8:33>> he just started talking to me.8:35>> Yeah. And I I'm talking to him, which by8:37the way is why the opening sentences of8:39my first interview are just so wildly8:42embarrassing,8:43>> dude. I want to ask about your opening8:45>> because he said, you know, like he was8:46like, "Oh, yeah, I'm divorced." He's8:48like, you know, like, you know, when I8:49first got divorced, I was dating a lot8:50and I just started talking about Yeah,8:52me too. But it's like just two dudes8:54talking, right?8:55>> And that's where we started the because8:56I don't realize, oh, we're recording8:58already. Um, [snorts] but it was cool9:00because it was real, you know, and um,9:02>> we finished it and he said to me that9:05was one of the best interviews I've ever9:07done.9:07>> That's what I said to him though. No,9:09I'm just kidding. [laughter] But I'll9:10tell you something.9:11>> I thought I bet he says this to9:13everybody, you know. And then he texted9:16me later in the day and he said, um, you9:18know, really it was great. Like I think9:20so I thought, "Oh, that's nice. He's9:21polite, you know, because I'll meet9:22someone. I'll tell it was nice to meet9:24you." Whatever.9:24>> Sure.9:25>> About a week later, he texts me again.9:26and he says, "Look, I'm just like9:28re-watching this and I'm about to9:30publish it. It's one of the best9:31interviews I've ever done. It's going to9:33get 4 million views. Guarantee it."9:35>> So, I like like, "Okay."9:37>> Yeah.9:37>> They put it up. It hit like a million9:39and a half in 24 hours.9:41>> I think now it's at like 9 million,9:43something like that. Some crazy number.9:45Some ridiculous number. And um yeah, I9:48mean the rest was absolute crazy history9:52because some big people saw it like you9:57know I I I was I got in this so it was9:59about a week after Software Underbelly10:01interview went up and millions of people10:02had watched it and all of a sudden a few10:05people would say like weren't you just10:07on Softwight Underbelly you know and10:08that was really weird because it was my10:10first time anybody just knew who I was10:13you know10:13>> so weird10:13>> and it was a little like odd10:15>> and then I was on the subway going from10:18Manhattan to Queens because I had a10:19trial in Queens and I listen to podcasts10:23when I'm on the subway. So I was10:24listening to Lex Freriedman talk to10:26Andrew Huberman as a guest.10:28>> And then I got out of the subway station10:30and I looked at my phone and I had a10:33message that said, "Hi, my name is Lex10:36Freiedman. I have a podcast. I'd like10:38you to come to Austin to be on it."10:40>> Sick.10:41>> And I was like, "This feels very I was10:43just listening to that like [laughter]10:44what is this? like am I impunked to what10:46happened? Like this is10:48>> and uh I text back and said, "Yeah,10:50thank you." You know, sure. I'd be happy10:52to do. He's like, "Great. Can you like10:53get here for this week?" And I was like,10:55"Uh, no. I'm a full-time lawyer, but10:58>> I can set something up the next week or10:59two." And the next thing I know, I was11:01in Austin recording with Lex. We talked11:03for four and a half hours with no11:04bathroom break. And, [laughter]11:06you know, probably could have done four11:08more and had a great time. And I said to11:11him after like, "How did you11:14how did you come to know who I was? Do11:17you watch Softwite Underbelly?" And he11:19said, "No." He said, "Um, Elon Musk, who11:22he's very close friends with, and Andrew11:24Huberman, who he's also very close11:25friends with, both separately sent me11:28your interview and said, "You should get11:30this guy on your podcast."11:32>> Wow. Wow.11:32>> And he said, "I hadn't watched it, but I11:34thought, well, if Elon and Andrew both11:36like this guy, I bet he'd be a good11:38guest." So that's when I emailed you or11:40texted you11:40>> and uh I thought that was really funny.11:42And he said, "But since then, you know,11:44I've listened to your book on audiobook11:46and I watched the interview and I agreed11:48like you're super interesting." So we11:50had a great interview. It went really11:51well. But it was weird cuz like, you11:53know, in the podcast world, you know,11:55there's tears to some degree.11:57>> Absolutely.11:58>> I went from never having been on a12:00podcast.12:01>> Wow. True.12:02>> A podcast. Like I I was looking at the12:06top 10 podcasts12:09uh in the United States for 2025 and12:11I've done seven of them.12:12>> Wow.12:13>> Cuz Huberman Lab, J Shetty, Diary of a12:15CEO I did twice.12:17>> Um I'm doing Mel Robbins in a week or12:19two. I just booked her. You know, like12:21all Huberman Lab, uh Lex Freedman, all12:24flagrant, you know, all of these I've12:26done.12:27>> And now Unlearned Wisdom. [laughter]12:28>> Now Unlearned Wisdom. Yeah, exactly.12:30Well, that was the one I was aspiring12:32to. You know, you guys had a very tough12:34screening process.12:35>> You were like, "You've not been on Joe12:36Rogan. I don't know that we can have12:38you." And I said, "Please." And then you12:40agreed to take the money as I offered.12:42Yeah. I paid the bribe. I paid the big12:44and it's fine. It feels [laughter] good.12:46>> And I feel like you guys should have12:47counsel present anyway to be honest. I12:49don't know that you should do this12:50podcast without a lawyer. It also12:52>> I'm also a lawyer.12:53>> It sounded like a good Yeah, but you12:54don't dress like one. But I feel like,12:56you know, it's a good start to a joke,12:58too. You know what I mean? like a like a13:00Christian a lawy divorce lawyer like it13:04really like I don't know where it goes13:06but um yeah so so that was the that was13:08the soft white underbelly background and13:10that was sort of the celebrity13:11background and uh since then it has13:14blown up.13:15>> Yeah,13:15>> I I have you know hundreds of millions13:17of views from across all these various13:20platforms. My book sales for a book that13:23I wrote in 2018 it's just went into its13:26fourth printing. So, wow. I'm finishing13:28my next book now and uh it should come13:31out sometime in in 2026 or early 2027.13:34>> Is the title still the same or13:36>> uh so so the original book was um if13:38you're in my office, it's already too13:40late, a divorce lawyer's guide to13:41staying together. It did really well,13:44but they my publisher seemed to believe13:46that the word divorce being in the title13:50>> made people think it was a book about13:51divorce, which it really isn't. It's13:54about what you can learn from divorce13:56about love.13:57>> So when they published it as soft cover,14:00>> they published it as how to stay in14:02love,14:03>> practical wisdom from an unlikely14:05source.14:06>> And that was I think the thing that it14:08needed because it, you know, it blew up14:10then and now it's in its fourth14:12printing, but it's really the same book14:14as the first book, which was the hard14:15cover.14:16>> Um, it's been published in the UK,14:18translated into Mandarin, Bulgarian,14:21Polish. It's being can read it now.14:23>> Well, they told me that it's in14:25Mandarin. I mean, they gave me a copy14:27and I was like, I'm trusting you that14:29this is [laughter] my book. I don't14:30actually read it. This could be like a14:32totally different book.14:34>> But, uh, yeah. So, it's it's um it's14:36been a really cool journey and now14:39>> I've sort of unintentionally become14:41something of a celebrity. Like I walk14:43down the street in the city and people14:45>> come up and say, you know, you're that14:46divorce lawyer. I love your Tik Toks or14:48I love you or you know and and they take14:50a picture with me and um it's pretty14:53crazy. I mean it's a pretty crazy thing.14:55I'm sure you've had a similar experience14:56like you go from kind of relative14:58obscurity to people coming up to you and15:02you know just like15:03>> like this is our first time meeting15:05>> but I feel like I've spent time with you15:07>> like cuz I listened to you talk about15:10you you know and15:12>> there is something very gratifying like15:14I represent a lot of actors and15:17>> you know some of them like I've watched15:19a show that they were on so I've spent15:21hours with them15:23>> and now they're in my office and I'm15:25going to be their divorce lawyer.15:26>> And I realize I've spent hours with15:29them, but I don't know them at all. Like15:31I they were reading15:33>> lines off a page that somebody else15:35wrote. So like in their show they were15:37on they're a badass and they're like a15:39violent person. And then [clears throat]15:40in real life they're like soft as15:41Wonderbread or the nicest person,15:43[laughter] you know? So and it's or or15:45vice versa. Like on on I've had clients15:47that you know on a show they play the15:49nicest guy and I find myself thinking,15:51"Oh, they're this nice." And then you15:53you're like, "Oh my god, he's the worst15:54person I've ever met."15:55>> Yeah. He pretends to be a minister and15:57he's super scary.15:58>> Super scary life.15:59>> You see how locked we were the whole16:00time.16:00>> The thing is he doesn't look like a16:02minister. You know what [laughter] I16:02mean? He does not look like So you kind16:04of go as advertised, you know?16:06>> Well, I was just about to say you're16:08covered in tattoos, right? And so it16:11makes me qu It makes me question what16:12your upbringing was, things like that.16:15>> So I'm I'm just curious cuz they're not16:17they're not like rainbows stick on. I'm16:19going to Yeah, I take them off after the16:21interview. [laughter] No. Um,16:21>> they're skulls, by the way. Like, if you16:23show them a little bit,16:24>> you you're going to actually like the16:25I've never really talked about the16:26backstory of my tattoos, so it's a good16:28You have an exclusive here. Um,16:30>> yeah, my tattoos are all much older than16:32you guys. Um, like my tattoos are all I16:35got them when I was in my late teens,16:37early 20s, and I'm 53. So,16:40>> um, all of them were some symbolic thing16:44I wanted to remember. Most of them are16:46religious themed. I was raised extremely16:48Catholic in a very dogmatic Roman16:50Catholic home.16:51>> I went to church, you know, almost every16:54day. I was an altar server. Um I I had16:58uh tremendously good experiences only in17:00the church. Like I I you know, I know17:02that the Catholic Church there have been17:03a lot of things that people had bad17:04experiences.17:06>> I didn't I I had really positive17:08experiences in the church. I came to a17:10place where that no longer fit my17:13understanding or faith.17:15>> Okay. What that's important. Yeah.17:16>> What was that to have all positive17:18experiences and then to suddenly17:20>> Well, I had experience, you know, I so17:22religion for me17:24is amazing at teaching you what to think17:27about and what questions you should ask.17:30Where it gets tricky is when it starts17:32to tell you the answer17:35>> because I I am of the belief and and you17:37know we we probably have differing17:39perspectives on this [snorts] that God17:41is is the name that we give to a blanket17:45that we put over a mystery to give it17:47shape. Like17:49>> you refer to to God as he17:52>> Mhm. [clears throat]17:52>> Like he wants this of us and he thinks17:55we're But I17:56>> I imagine we all agree God doesn't have17:58a penis. [laughter]17:59>> Like, you know, we're laughing, but like18:01it's true. Like like we I say someone he18:04I mean they're a man. Like I And what do18:06I mean by they're a man? They they have18:07a penis, right? So I don't believe God18:09has a penis. You know, if he did, okay,18:12like is it like a big one? Is it18:14average? [laughter] Like how does it18:15work? Like18:15>> definitely swinging. But how I would18:17like to think that, but then there's a18:18part of me it's like I don't know. Maybe18:20he would be like modest and average and18:22[laughter] he he gave it to himself18:24>> and it would be kind of like if he was18:26like I'm going to give myself a real18:27monster. Like that feels like wow.18:30>> Give me give him a monster. Give him a18:32small one. That's not fair.18:33>> That's not cool. You're an omnipotent18:35creator deity. Throw me a bone. What are18:37you doing? You know, like [laughter] but18:39>> I feel like, you know, so so we know18:42>> that that this is a metaphor. Like we18:44know that that God isn't a he, but we18:47use the word he because God's the18:49father, right? So when Jesus says, you18:51know, God is your heavenly father,18:54>> now we say he cuz a father's a he. But18:57you know, we know that that wasn't what18:58he meant. He didn't mean God, you know,19:00like conceived you and God has a penis.19:03He meant God is like a good father who19:05loves you, protects you, holds you to a19:08standard. Like this to me is a beautiful19:10metaphor. And so much of what Jesus says19:13in the gospels is metaphors, beautiful19:15metaphors and stories to inspire us. So19:18for me the journey of faith was that I19:21found myself just not believing uh the19:25more that I read the Bible and studied19:27different translations of the Bible19:28whether it was the New International19:30Version or the Renew Revised Standard19:31Version or the King James or and the19:34more that I studied other religious19:35texts you know the Dhamapata the19:37Bhagavad Gita the Dao Deq Ching19:39>> the more that I realized that all of19:41these things are just a way to try to19:44explain something that's incredibly like19:46if you look at the Dao Ching and the19:49Bible, the opening sentence of both of19:52them written thousands of years apart in19:54totally different cultures is almost19:56exactly the same. Like the opening line19:58of the Dao Degen is the Dao that can be20:00named is not the eternal Dao.20:02>> And the opening line of the gospel is20:04you know in the beginning there was the20:05word and the word was of God and the20:06word was God which is like it's meant to20:10be a contradiction like the word was of20:12God and the word was God. So it's just20:15like the Dao. The Dao that can be named20:16is not the eternal Dao. So I felt like,20:19oh, this is something saying to us, hey,20:22there's a thing that we won't need to20:24talk about,20:26>> but by putting it into words, you're20:27going to screw it up.20:29>> So, we're just going to try to use words20:31to explain what it is, but the words20:33will fail. Like, because this is a20:35mystery that you can't understand. as a20:38as a I came to a place in my own faith20:41where I felt that claiming I could20:43understand the nature of God, an20:46omnipotent creator deity that created20:49the known and unknown universe20:50>> infinite20:51>> was a was a form of hubris20:54>> like it would be like saying can you20:56explain quantum physics to an ant right20:58[laughter]20:59>> no because it's an ant like I'm an ant21:02>> not even in to God so for me to say I21:07understand the nature of God it with21:10certainty21:11feels very uncomfortable and inauthentic21:14because I think there's again people who21:16have strong religious faith like I have21:18many Christian friends and they have a21:21strong religious faith and when I say21:23faith as someone who argues for a living21:27I'm always thinking what would you21:29accept as proof that what you're saying21:31is not true21:33>> right because proof denies faith like if21:36you have proof of something, it's not21:37faith. Like, oh yeah, I have proof of21:39that. I know it's true. It's21:40information. Like, you've proven21:42something to me. I don't have to have21:43faith in it.21:43>> Yes.21:44>> So, you know, if I said to you, um, you21:47know, this watch is a real Rolex. It's21:50not a fake.21:51>> Yeah.21:51>> And if you said, Jim, that's a fake21:53Rolex. And I said, okay, what would you21:55accept as proof21:57>> right21:57>> that you're wrong? Well, I'd want to see21:59the box and papers. I'd want a certified22:01person to look at it. Okay, this is a22:03good thing. Like, this is logic. This is22:06reason, right?22:08>> If I said, "What would you accept as22:10proof that Jesus is not your personal22:14Lord and Savior and that there is no22:16path to the Father but through him?"22:19>> Sure.22:19>> I hope if you're a man of faith that22:21your answer would be nothing.22:23>> Exactly.22:24>> There's nothing you could tell me22:27>> or show me that would take that belief22:30from me.22:30>> Exactly.22:31>> Because that's faith.22:32>> Faith 100%. And so for me, I stand in22:35awe of people with faith because it's a22:39beautiful thing to have.22:40>> It's like a superpower.22:42>> It is. It is. And it's a tremendous22:44comfort. Like my mother passed away22:46about 10 years ago after a long battle22:47with cancer. And she was Christian her22:49whole life.22:50>> And the peace and comfort [snorts] that22:53she had in the last two years of her22:55life while she was on hospice because of22:57her faith was amazing. like she was23:01ready to go home, like ready to return23:04to the f like she and she believed that23:06with all her heart and it gave her such23:08beautiful great comfort.23:10>> Sure.23:10>> But I don't believe23:12>> that faking that is a good thing.23:15>> Yeah.23:15>> You know, and and and Jesus agrees with23:17me in the gospel that like don't don't23:19say this if you don't mean it. Like it's23:21okay to question. It's okay to have23:23doubt. Doubt is you know Jesus had doubt23:25in the garden of Gethsemane. He had23:28doubt like why why you really want me to23:30do this like you sure like would that23:32you take this cup from my hand you know23:34like it really is like a beautiful thing23:37but I think faith is something that you23:39shouldn't fake like if you don't have it23:41you don't have it so for me a lot of my23:43tattoos were about my faith like there's23:46the Pax Christi these are the six fruits23:48of the Holy Spirit the skulls are are23:52seven skulls each one representing one23:54of the seven deadly sins so they're all23:56seven of the deadly sins done23:58graphically. So like envy, the eyes are24:00empty because envy is is blindness to24:02God's gifts. Um you know, wrath is is24:05this is a like an anatomically correct24:07skull with a bullet hole. Um pride uh is24:11this one and it's an anatomically24:12perfect skull but with the Lucifer seal24:14on it because Lucifer's sin was the sin24:16of pride. Um lust is my shoulder. It's24:19the biggest one.24:20>> Makes sense. Um [laughter] and we're24:22going to get into that. There's no24:23explanation. Um, so yeah, I mean all my24:26tattoos sort of move from that that24:28place of of you know my religious24:30upbringing wanting to remember something24:32about that. Across my abdomen I have the24:35opening lines of Psalm 129 which is the24:37prefundus clamp do which means like out24:40of the depths I cry out to the Lord.24:42>> So24:42>> you're extremely learned but it's but24:44you don't believe in God anymore.24:46>> I believe in God. No, I very much24:47believe in God. Yeah, I have tremendous24:49faith in God. I I just don't I don't24:53feel I can credibly say like I I believe24:56in God. I believe that the gospel of24:59Christ is to me the most beautiful25:02personally the most beautiful and25:03resonant expression of it.25:07>> But I'm not sure if that's because it's25:09true or if that's because that's the one25:11I was raised on,25:12>> Johnny. You know, and and I'm very um25:15I'm what I will say is I am most moved25:17by the gospel of Christ. Like I am most25:20moved when I look at the story of Jesus25:23when I read the gospels. I I find them25:26the most beautiful expression25:29of God and the understanding of God. But25:33I I can't say that I believe that in the25:37divinity of Jesus. I don't know that he25:39was not25:40>> a incredible spiritual teacher who came25:43and was, you know, the son of God in the25:45way that we're all sons and daughters of25:47God. Mhm.25:47>> And I wouldn't want to pretend that I25:49do. So, I do very much believe in God.25:51Um, I just don't know that I believe in25:53the divinity of Christ and that some of25:56the core doctrines of the Christian26:00faith, I don't know that I can truly26:03align myself with because I've spent so26:05much time in thinking about and looking26:08at scripture.26:09>> Sure.26:09>> And looking at other religion scripture.26:12>> Yeah.26:13>> That I find it uh difficult to I have26:15commitment issues, I guess. right?26:17[laughter]26:17You know, it's I I I any woman I've ever26:20dated would tell you the same thing, you26:21know. So, yeah, I I have a hard time26:24being a one God man, you know, like a26:26one one uh religious view man. Daily26:29devotions are back and they're in your26:31email. Every single day, I start with26:32the word of God and I share that with26:34you guys so that you can also have the26:36same peace, hope, and happiness that I26:38move forward throughout the day. Every26:40morning, I send you a piece of scripture26:42and an explanation to help you with your26:43spiritual walk. There's nothing more26:45powerful than starting your day with the26:46word of God. This quick 2 minutes each26:48morning will set you up for the rest of26:50your day. These are 100% free, so if you26:52want to sign up for the emails, link in26:54the description. Johnny, what's your26:56overall thoughts?26:58>> It's super interesting. I think he did27:00hit it on the head when it comes to27:01faith. I've I say this often, a lot of27:03people are, you know, confirmationbased27:06versus like faith-based where it's like,27:08if you make it make sense to me and you27:10fill my check boxes, then I'll believe.27:13And I'm like, that's not necessarily27:14faith. [laughter] So, the fact that you27:16said that, I'm like, that's pretty27:17pretty amazing. Um, in terms of the27:20divinity, of course, I also by faith27:22believe. I think things are so27:24difficult. You hit it right on the head27:25when you're like, it's just hard to27:27understand. Like, we're literally finite27:30individuals trying to understand27:31something that's infinite27:32>> and how would that ever happen? And27:34that's why it takes faith, right? So for27:37me too, I'm like it makes sense when27:38people say, "Well, Jesus is this man27:41who's like God but also 100% man." And27:44it's like kind of difficult and that's27:45when I'm like that's where faith comes27:47in for me, right? So I'm like I I accept27:49it according to what the Bible says.27:51Same as you say. I've I've you know read27:53it in Hebrew, Aramaic, Coney Greek. I've27:55had rabbitic teachers and Messianic Jews27:57and all that. And I've tried to learn27:59also reading Apple Creepa and all these28:01things. And I'm like, you know, at the28:03end of the day, it for me it was more28:05like rabbit hole after rabbit hole28:07versus like giving actual clarity.28:09>> And I'm like, man, I got to just believe28:11in God. Let me just focus on [laughter]28:12what you know what I mean.28:13>> I do. Yeah, I do. I think that we28:15>> it's it's really you say it really well28:18because I think,28:19>> you know, I I I've been in therapy a28:21long time. I see value in being in28:22therapy and one of the things my28:23therapist often says to me is you're28:25overintellectualizing something. So,28:27like I'll be talking about something I'm28:28feeling or something I went through and28:30I'll say, "Well, you know, and I know28:31that that's, you know, because that28:32reminds me of my mom and she used to do28:34this and and she's like,28:36>> "Right, like you can28:38>> pick this apart and figure out like but28:40>> what you're saying is you're hurt."28:42>> Yeah.28:43>> Like why you're hurt and where that came28:46from. Okay, we can spend a whole bunch28:48and maybe you're more comfortable28:49talking about how the math of it works,28:51right? So, I think you're absolutely28:52right. like I like you spent so much28:55time digging into the well this gospel28:57translates different than this and in28:59this kind of Aramaic a virgin means a29:02young woman whereas in the you know29:04we've interpreted it to mean that you29:06know Jesus was born with no sin and that29:08she was a virgin like and I actually29:10kind of like the idea that Mary wasn't a29:12virgin and then in fact maybe she was29:14having sex and wasn't married like that29:16would fit with Jesus because Jesus was29:18always hanging out with prostitutes and29:19criminals and people that everybody29:21hated and saying oh No, they're they're29:23just like us. Like this is I'm here for29:25these people. So I thought, oh, like if29:28I was going to if go if I'm God and I'm29:30going to send a messenger to like to29:33give my message to the world, I'm going29:36to have him born of adultery in a29:38manger. I'm going to have him be like a29:40total rebel, like a total, you know, no29:43one would think this guy is going to be29:45the guy. And that's part of the message.29:47Like part of the message was he's not,29:50you know, anything special. He was just29:52a dude. He's a carpenter. He's 33 years29:54old. And you know, he's kind of annoyed29:56at his mom, you know. He's at the29:57wedding, you know, in Kaa. And29:59[laughter] she's like, "Boy, it'd be30:00nice if there was some wine, you know,30:02and he's like,30:03>> Mhm." And she's like, "Yeah, you know, a30:05lot of wine. We're out of wine. Isn't it30:06[laughter] a shame?" And he's like,30:07"Woman, what would you have me do?"30:09>> Right. Right. Right. Which by the way,30:10like most like most guys have who either30:14have a mother30:15>> or a girlfriend or a wife [laughter]30:17>> understand those first lines of Jesus30:20before the first miracle [laughter] cuz30:22he his mother is pushing him and he30:24looks at her and goes like, "Woman, what30:26would you have me do? Like what do you30:27want me to do? You want me to do it's30:28not my time. You want me to make a30:29miracle?" And then what does he do? What30:31most men do? We're like fine. [laughter]30:34>> Here's the miracle. Are you happy?30:36Great. There you go. you know, and so30:38it's and and so that journey begins, you30:40know. So again, like I love I love this30:43story and I think you're absolutely30:45right. It's really easy to overly30:47intellectualize it,30:49>> but at the core,30:50>> I think you did what you have to do to30:52have deep faith, which is just toss your30:54brain out a little and say, "This speaks30:56to my heart."30:57>> Sure.30:57>> Undoubtedly speaks to my heart.30:59>> Amen.30:59>> Deeply,31:00>> but I'm just not ready to say that.31:03>> I'm not sure why. And I I have to tell31:05you, I pray constantly,31:08>> Amen.31:08>> to give me that faith. If that faith is31:11meant for me, give it to me.31:12>> Amen.31:13>> And and so I I know that if it will31:15come, it will come. I'm not resistant to31:17it. I'm open to it. I spend a lot of31:19time in thought about the Christian31:22gospel. I I spend a lot of time reading31:24the gospel, and I I leave myself open to31:27it. Um but I I haven't yet reached a31:29place where I like I think you have to31:31treat it like you treat marriage. You're31:33never going to be ready,31:35>> but don't do it until you're ready31:38enough,31:39>> like you're serious enough. Like, don't31:41make that commitment,31:43>> if you're not serious about that31:45commitment because it's serious, you31:46know?31:47>> I respect that. I think that's very31:48genuine31:49>> and and as he said, you know, there's a31:51lot of people who are like I call them31:53like Jesus fanboys, but like you know,31:55they're just like like kind of like like31:57a LeBron fan who's like, "Yeah, he31:59scored 40,000 points. from Ohio. But32:01it's like, do you have a relationship?32:02Like, can you pick up the phone and call32:04him? And it's like, oh no. And so, a lot32:06of people know all these, you know,32:08intellectual things and all of these32:10deep and depths and but at the end of32:12the day, it's like, do you have a32:13relationship? And I think authenticity,32:15trust,32:16>> you have to have that first before32:18having a relationship. Otherwise, it's32:19just it's fake, right? And so, I respect32:21that a thousand.32:22>> Yeah. I what I struggle with and I'd be32:23interested to hear your thoughts on is,32:26you know, you talk about having a32:28relationship with Christ, right? And and32:30the value of that and and part of every32:32good relationship is talking, right?32:34>> Communication.32:35>> So, you know, you talk to to to God.32:37Absolutely.32:37>> And and you know, all of my Christian32:39friends like make a point of of talking32:42to God and talking to God with specific32:44reference to Jesus. So, you know,32:46they'll they'll they'll be saying, you32:47know, heavenly father, you know, I want32:49to, you know, help me with this and, you32:50know, Lord, you know, I I ask you for32:52this. And they're very calling by name.32:54Sure.32:54>> Right. God and and calling by name32:56Jesus.32:58>> But obviously Jesus, you know, isn't and33:01God aren't talking back anymore.33:03>> Sure.33:04>> The way in scripture they used to,33:07right? So they used to like the bush33:08would start talking [laughter]33:10>> or like the you know33:13>> and so33:14>> I would not you'll notice I didn't say33:16that God isn't speaking to us like I I33:19feel like we get spoken to all the time33:21by things that happen around us but how33:22do you identify33:24>> that how does it for you not feel like a33:27one-sided conversation? So through33:29scripture I think for me and then also33:31through servants if you notice like33:33through Moses God spoke to Moses could33:36have saved the the Israelites himself33:38established Moses built the whole world33:40for example established Noah and and I33:43always wondered why like you're God you33:44can snap your fingers and just leave33:46people out right and I'm like oh and I33:48started to kind of discover at least in33:50my opinion that God speaks through word33:53and the servants and servants usually33:55are supposed to be studied like the33:56barian church in Acts studied day and33:58night and then kind of perpetuated this34:00to to everybody else. So, in the same34:02way, I feel like, yeah, it's not really34:04dreams and visions for me. It's more of34:06like,34:07>> wow, I'm reading the word and somehow34:09I'm going through something and I just34:11crack open the Bible and it's right34:12there and it just34:12>> it's right there. How interesting,34:14right? Yeah. And I mean, maybe that is a34:16really great entry point for someone34:18like me who feels deeply connected to34:20the idea and to the gospel, but feels34:23like34:23>> cuz I I I work my best ideas through34:26while talking. Sure. like in34:27conversation. So when I was like34:29thinking about my my the book I'm34:31working on,34:32>> it was born of conversations where I34:34would just be talking to people about34:35love and marriage and what and it like34:38sometimes you'll see me like close my34:40eyes while I'm talking or like look up34:43>> and it's that I'm like trying to form a34:45thought that I haven't said before. Like34:47I I'm like a comic in that I have34:49certain things I know land. So if you've34:51watched interviews with me, there's like34:53material that I know hits. I know this34:55one kills like that'll be my closer.34:58>> Yeah.34:58>> But a lot of times like I want to be35:00having like this a very genuine35:03conversation and it's things I don't35:05have any material prepared for35:08>> and you know other than saying hey we're35:10going to have a free flowing discussion35:12and you know I know your your faith35:14background so knowing that hey this is a35:16topic we can cover together and we both35:18did soft white so I'm like oh we'll35:20maybe talk about that. We didn't talk35:22about what we're going to talk about or35:23how we're going to talk about it. And I35:25kind of love that because that's a way35:28for this to happen organically and for35:30it to flow the way it needs to flow.35:32Like if you'd said, "Oh, the first 2035:33minutes we're going to talk about this."35:34Like, would you have guessed when you're35:36like, "Oh, we got a divorce lawyer35:37coming over today and the first 3035:38minutes is going to be about his35:40religious faith and about, you know, the35:41study of the scripture and we'll have35:43some quotes from the Dao Deq Ching in35:44the first five minutes." [laughter]35:45Like, we would not have thought that.35:47But, you know,35:48>> that's right here.35:49>> That's a beautiful right. That's a35:50beautiful thing, you know, and and and35:52sometimes I think maybe that is how God35:54speaks to us is by putting you in my35:57path.35:57>> Yes.35:58>> And and you know, putting us in each35:59other's orbit36:01>> and that's the way that we're spoken to.36:04And I if that's true, it's really36:06beautiful. I want to believe it. Like36:08there's so much I want to believe.36:11>> Like and I think there are probably a36:13lot of people like me36:15>> that say I I want this. Like cuz your36:18faith is a superpower,36:19>> right?36:20>> Like so I envy it.36:22>> Like I I look at it and I go, "Oh, I I36:24want to believe that. I want the comfort36:27that comes with that. I want what I know36:30I'll never have to not have so many36:32questions in my head." Like I know even36:34with faith you have36:36>> questions in you because36:38>> anyone who is smart is going to never36:41stop having like36:43>> you know36:44>> Jesus cured my child's cancer right that36:47God gave your kid.36:49>> Yeah. [laughter]36:50>> Like so God gave your child cancer and36:53then you prayed and impleaded his36:55intervention and God saw fit to help36:58with like that feels to me like right37:00but why did he give the kid cancer to37:02begin with? What would you say? I'm sure37:03there's an answer. Yeah, I'm sure37:05there's an answer. But it's an anthether37:06that's based on faith,37:08>> right?37:08>> And I I want to have that faith. I want37:11to say37:13>> I want to be Jesus in Gethsemane,37:15>> right?37:16>> Like,37:17>> why are you doing this to me, Dad? And37:19then to go, oh, not my will, but yours.37:23>> Is is there like a level of fear?37:25>> I think it's scarier to not have faith.37:28No, I I don't think it's about fear. I37:30think it's about37:31>> Yeah. Yeah. No, I I I actually find the37:33world much more terrifying if you don't37:34believe.37:35>> Yeah.37:35>> I I like I want to believe because it's37:37quite frightening to not believe. Sure.37:39You know, I I think if none of this37:42means anything37:43>> of real value, like then I I I I don't37:47really know, you know, like I I want to37:48have faith.37:49>> Sure. Sure.37:50>> Yeah.37:50>> I I think I mean he said it, you know,37:53when I read the heart posture, it's more37:55of just like I I don't want to be fake37:58about it. Like in one sentence, it's38:00literally I want to be authentic about38:03it, which I respect. I don't think38:04people should be like, well, my mom told38:07me that that's what it was, so I guess38:08this is just what we do, right? And it's38:10like38:11>> in any relationship, because it is a38:13relational thing, whether it's with a38:14spiritual being, physical being,38:15whatever. It's all relationship. And38:16it's like you want to be real about it.38:19And you being a divorce lawyer, you've38:20seen it where people are getting married38:22because of money or other things and38:24you're just like it ends. It it just38:26it's not real. And I've seen people make38:28commitments38:30>> like serious commitments of forever38:34>> and then38:35>> totally not honor it38:37>> and not respect it.38:39>> And so I I try not to do that38:42>> in my relationship and in my38:44relationship with God.38:45>> I respect38:46>> like because that's a relationship. So38:48like if I'm not ready to see him38:50exclusively38:51>> Yeah. and I want to still see other38:53people and I don't know if I can commit38:57and say okay then I don't want to fake38:59it like I just want to say you know I I39:02I want to believe help me believe like39:06send people in my path who help me39:08believe change something in my heart39:11make me believe help me get past these39:13questions or help me know that these39:15questions will never go away but I have39:17faith39:18>> sure39:18>> like you have questions how do you not39:20have questions like any Christian tells39:21me I have no questions and I completely39:23understand God's intent. I'm like, you39:25are lying. [laughter]39:26>> Like Carl Lent, you know, who I is an39:28amazing pastor and I I call him a friend39:31said to me, "Oh, if you're waiting for39:33like the gospel to make sense."39:35>> Yeah.39:36>> You can be waiting like there's a huge39:38amount that's just never going to make39:40sense to you. You have to live in the39:42mystery of it and have faith. And I I39:44honor that. I respect that.39:46>> Yeah.39:46>> I kind of am curious of what what your39:48response would be to the cancer thing.39:50That was just my personal39:51>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a question I39:53think a lot of people have about why why39:55does God allow39:56>> so there to be so much suffering? Why39:59would God create the devil?40:01>> Sure.40:01>> Like why would God do any of that?40:03>> Sure.40:04>> And send so much misery and suffering40:06and hardship in our direction.40:08>> True.40:09>> I I question that a lot. God, you're40:12God, you know, God of Almighty. God is40:15good, right? And good is obviously the40:17absence of evil. like why would you40:19create cancer which I think is very40:20evil. Um I think evil people deserve40:23cancer right it's like but a child you40:26know we have like St. Judes and all40:27these things and why would he create40:29Lucifer who then turned into you know40:31Satan and I realized uh it's more of40:34like a fallen state of man. We have this40:36nature that's just evil. And God40:39explains that he's light, let's say,40:41right? And when you, let's say, turn off40:43the light in in a room, darkness just40:47appears, right? In this way, I've40:49learned that he created Lucifer who was40:51full of bag pipes, smart, intelligent,40:54beautiful, basically number two in40:56heaven. Um, and he got prideful and was40:59like, you know what, I want to be like41:01the most high. And he decided to kind of41:03turn away from God. And so in this way,41:05you know, I kind of tie it into my life.41:08You I joined a gang at 12 years old and41:10I had the mindset, no one told me this,41:12but I was like, you know what, I'm going41:13to decide that my dad's an alcoholic who41:16beats the crap out of me, so he can't41:18take care of me. My mom is submitted to41:20him due to the Buddhist tradition, and41:22you know, she's in bed before my dad and41:24out of the bed, you know, after him. And41:25it's like crazy stuff. And I'm like,41:27okay, so I can't depend on any of these41:29people. I'm gonna sit there and join a41:32gang, be my own boss, lead my own life.41:34At 12 years old, I was thinking this,41:36not understanding the repercussions.41:38Obviously, ended up going to California41:39Youth Authority, spending 13 years in41:41prison, and leading my p my life to41:43destruction. But I realized like at in41:45that moment, I blamed God a lot. Like,41:47God, why did you allow this? Why did you41:49deal me the cards? But later, it was41:50like all of this was necessary to keep41:52me to generate that faith, right? And so41:55I think I I think we as human beings41:57naturally when we have things going our41:59way like we don't turn to God. And so he42:02has to allow this almost as a tool not42:05because he's evil but because we just42:07don't react like we just react only to42:11you know things that are like so harsh42:13and like traumatic for us to like be42:15like oh this is a speed bump. This is a42:17stop sign. I need to really think about42:18God.42:19>> You know that makes tremendous sense to42:20me. And I I42:21>> my my feeling and my belief has always42:24been that that evil if we want to call42:26it evil42:28>> is in a sense like even a fulcrum for42:30God because42:32>> it is only through you know dark that we42:34see the difference between dark and42:35light and42:36>> I don't know that I believe in the devil42:38right I I don't know that I because I42:40think to have faith in God42:42>> to have also faith in the devil like42:44they're two different pursuits42:45>> but I I if there was a devil I think the42:49devil's principle42:51function, his goal would be to convince42:55us that we're so beastial and awful that42:57God couldn't possibly love us.42:59>> That's fact.43:00>> Because if if the devil can convince me43:03because, you know, you share your story43:05and we have a similar story in the sense43:06that, you know, I had a terrible43:08alcoholic father, you know, cuddy sark43:10in a coffee mug, kind of an alcoholic43:12and I moved out at 1743:14>> because the chaos and my mother was like43:17your mother. she was just sort of43:18powerless to this person and managing43:21his alcoholism and trying to so she43:23really couldn't be there for us the way43:25as children that we needed.43:27>> So at 17 I was very much on my own. Um43:30which is a very different thing than43:31than at 12. So I can't even imagine. But43:33I think we probably both carry very43:35similar scars in terms of you know you43:38you always for the rest of your life43:39have control issues. You you you know43:42right you have fear of abandonment. you43:44you you feel like, okay, I can only rely43:46upon myself, and this feels very heavy.43:48Yeah.43:48>> Um, but I really believe that43:51>> every time I've seen43:53>> and I represent all kinds of people. I43:55mean, I represent the the the victim of43:57domestic violence. I represent the43:59perpetrator of domestic violence. I44:00represent the person who's been cheated44:01on. I represent the person who's doing44:03the cheating. And what I will tell you44:04is you spend enough time with each of44:06these people, just like when you do44:07prison ministry, I'm sure44:08>> you you start to see that these are just44:11people that somehow and again, if you44:13want to call it the devil, we're44:15convinced that they're just evil.44:18>> Yeah. like I gave myself in in the44:21moments of my life where I've been the44:23worst version of myself, the most evil44:25version of myself is when I44:29lost sight of God's presence in me and44:32when I believed that, oh, I'm awful.44:35Like, I'm so awful, God couldn't love44:37me. Yeah.44:38>> So, I might as well just do whatever I44:40want. I might as well do what feels44:41good. I might as well do what makes me44:43feel powerful because God doesn't love44:47me. like like why would he?44:50>> Like I'm awful. I have so much darkness44:52in me. I have terrible thoughts. I'm44:54selfish. I'm like you could fill a book44:56with all the things even today now44:58sitting here before you all the all the45:00lust, the greed, the envy. Like I I45:03carry all of those things. I do all of45:06those things. I I I try to at best hold45:10them at bay. Yeah.45:12>> Right. But we all have that darkness in45:14us. And so I but again I think the45:18purpose of the devil would be to like45:19make you just look at that45:21>> and not look at the part of you that is45:24divine, the part of you that is God. The45:26part of you that that is God's voice45:27inside you, right? That's built in God's45:30image. And that, you know, yes, we have45:31greed in us, but we also have incredible45:33compassion in us. And I have lust in me,45:35but I also have, you know, compassion in45:37me and and a desire to love and be loved45:40in me. So I you know I think we're just45:43walking around with all those45:44contradictions. Sure. And you know I I45:47think that's a very challenging thing in45:48this world to hold on to. Sure.45:50>> If you don't have45:52>> what you just described. See the fact45:53that you describe it as I talk to God45:57>> the way I talk to me.45:59>> Sure.46:00>> But then I I see in scripture that he's46:03talking back.46:04>> Yeah.46:04>> And see to me that's an interesting46:06entry point that I've never really done.46:08I've never really like,46:10>> you know, prayed on something and then46:11allowed myself to sort of let me just46:13see where in the gospel this might speak46:15to me and see if that's God's answer. I46:17always try to look at it like46:18>> God puts people in my path and that46:21maybe they're his answer or they're his46:23messenger because I do find there are46:25times where I feel very close to God. I46:28feel very because someone is in my path46:31that gives me an opportunity to be46:34Christian, to be compassionate,46:35empathetic, forgiving, kind, selfless,46:38to not, you know, to to to embody the46:41virtues that Jesus embodied, you know,46:45we're we're forgiving someone, you know,46:47showing deep compassion to this person,46:50showing deep empathy to a person. Is46:52there ever a time where you're being46:54this like vulnerable as you are and then46:56someone shuts you down and how do you46:59handle that? Like you know in the47:01Christian community there's a lot of47:03people who are like if you're not saying47:04it my way or saying it my way47:06>> like they just write you off or they47:08kind of ch right and it's like have you47:10ever experienced that and how do you do47:11it?47:11>> But I I like I it doesn't bother me. I47:14mean, partly because like I argue for a47:15living, so I'm used to people [laughter]47:17I'm used to people disagree with me, but47:18I also like it feels like the most47:21wonderfully human thing. Like one of my47:24favorite things in the gospel is um you47:27know, I was raised Catholic and so when47:28you're Catholic, it's unlike being a47:30charismatic Christian. Like you go and47:32there's we believe in one God, Jesus47:33Christ, the only God of God, God from47:34God, light from light, true God from47:35true God, begotten not made one in being47:37with the father. Like I can do the whole47:38mass. Like I memorized the whole thing.47:40I was an alter boy. I know the whole47:41thing. And it's very formal.47:44>> You stand at this time, you sit at this47:45time. It's very formal and all the47:47prayers are very formal. And I remember47:49at a fairly young age like47:52>> digging deeper into the gospel as a47:54teenager like wanting to understand it47:56and really out of the struggle of like I47:57don't know that I believe this so let me47:59like read it a little bit deeper.48:01>> And I I remember reading because when48:04you're a Catholic the Our Father, the48:06Lord's Prayer,48:07>> right? You say it like 50 times a day.48:10Like every class there was our father48:13who art in heaven, hallowed be and it's48:14you say it like that. Our father who art48:16in heaven [laughter] be the name kingdom48:18come thy will be done on earth as in48:19heaven. Give us this day our daily bread48:20and forgive us our trespasses.48:21[laughter] Forgive those who trespass48:22against us. And it's like it's like it's48:25like when you like say like you know I48:27pledge allegiance the flag48:30you know the words don't even mean48:32anything anymore. And so, and I remember48:36as a kid saying, "Why do we say this?"48:39>> And them saying, "Oh, because the Bible48:41tells us that this is how we should48:42pray." And I remember the first time I48:45read the actual part of the gospel.48:48>> And it was the most human thing I've48:51ever seen because Jesus is born into48:54this Jewish culture that has tremendous48:57rigidity. Yes. And has formality. And49:00you do this on this day and you say this49:01way it's a very our father in heaven49:03[laughter] and that it's very that and49:05one of them says to Jesus in in some49:08substance how should we pray49:10>> like how should we pray like should we49:12should we do it like these guys like49:14should we father like should we do that49:16>> and Jesus says no when you pray and49:19again I'm paraphrasing but he says don't49:22be like the Pharisees like don't put on49:25this whole thing and like you have to49:27say it a certain way like just talk to49:29God.49:31Just say something like, you know, our49:33father who's in heaven,49:35>> hallowed be thy name. Like, thy kingdom49:38come, thy will be done on earth as it is49:40in heaven. Like, give us this day our49:43daily bread. Forgive us our trespasses49:45as we'll forgive those who trespass.49:47>> Jesus was saying,49:49>> you don't have to say any particular49:51words in any particular order.49:53>> Just talk to God. And what did we do?49:58what do we have to say? And he was like,50:00don't say like say whatever you want.50:01Say, our father who art in heaven. We're50:03like, hold on, I'm writing this down.50:04Our father who art. And he's like, no,50:06no, the point was you don't have to say50:09it just like that. They're like, hold50:10on, I'm writing down what you just said50:12exactly. Our father who art in heaven.50:14So to me, like when someone says, "Oh,50:17if you don't do it this way, you're50:18doing it wrong."50:20>> I go, "Oh, no. That's I don't think50:22that's true." True.50:23>> Like because I think Jesus was saying50:26>> there's no exact way you have to do it.50:29Like there's some things you have to50:31feel and believe. There's some things50:33you have to acknowledge,50:35>> but you don't have to pray any50:37particular way.50:38>> You can just talk to God any time like50:41he was your father and that's it.50:44>> Sure.50:44>> And it goes back to that with just the50:47performative aspect, you being50:49authentic. I think that's what it comes50:50down to, right? It's like we have to be,50:53you know, authentic with God and be50:55like, look, there's times where I pray50:56honestly and I'm just like pissed. And50:58I'm like, God, I don't know why this is51:00happening. Like, if you don't take away51:01this heart from me,51:03>> I'm just going to stay mad. And people51:04look at me and they're like, yo, like I51:06was getting ridiculed online for that.51:07They're like, that's how you talk to51:09your father. I'm like, well, if he's my51:10dad and he's the most understanding51:12person,51:12>> right?51:13>> Why can't I speak to him and be like,51:15hey, dad, I'm pissed. Let's have a51:17conversation.51:17>> I have two sons. I have to tell you. If51:19if Jesus is saying God is like a good51:21father.51:22>> Sure.51:23>> I I think I'm I have what you and I51:25maybe didn't have. I have a good father.51:27Like I have a father who like I don't I51:28I'm not perfect at it. I step on the51:30rake sometimes, but my sons are 26 and51:322851:33>> and I I think I've done a good job. I've51:35done the best I could.51:36>> Amen.51:37>> And and I didn't always have the best51:38role models for it. So I was making up51:40some of it as I went along.51:41>> Sure.51:42>> But what I will say is like if my sons51:44came to me and said, "I'm so mad at you.51:47I'm so upset at you. M51:49>> I wouldn't be mad at that. I'd be like,51:51well, let's talk about that. Why are you51:53mad? Like, what's what are you feeling51:54right now? Like, what does it come from?51:56Is it something I are you51:58misunderstanding something I did or51:59said? Or maybe you're not actually mad52:01at me. It just feels like you're mad at52:03me, but really you're mad at yourself.52:05Like, so I'm very very comfortable with52:07I mean, and by the way, I think there's52:09so much in the scripture.52:10>> Sure. of Jesus having doubt. Like I keep52:13talking about Gethsemane, but like even52:16on the cross like you know like right52:19like you know lloat52:21right like like my god my god why have52:23you abandoned me right52:25>> like52:26>> g Jesus52:27>> was like why52:28>> was saying why have you why have you52:30abandoned me why have you left me like52:33the dereliction like what a52:35>> amaz and to again to some people52:38>> that's like oh well that must have not52:39happened or that must be a mistransation52:42>> and to me like that actually makes it52:44much more beautiful52:45>> 100%52:45>> because God like Jesus was fully human52:49and in that moment was terrified and in52:52pain and dying and said why are you52:56doing like if you love me why would you52:58do this to me53:00>> that is so beautiful to me and then53:02because he then follows it with53:05>> you know it is accomplished53:06>> right it is finished53:07>> you know like father into your hands I53:08commend my spirit like which to me53:11>> is oh okay so that's the journey. Amen.53:13>> Like, so maybe I'm in like that's my era53:16I'm in right now. I'm in my like what53:17are you doing, man? Like, why? Why? What53:20is this? What is this? I hope53:22>> it's followed by the you know, it's53:25finished. It's accomplished. You know,53:26like I hope it's followed by that. But,53:29you know, I don't think that53:31>> I think if you're mad at God, you should53:33say it53:33>> 100%.53:34>> I think if you believe in God, you53:35should say it proudly, loudly. If you53:38have doubt,53:39>> you should say it.53:39>> I think you should say it.53:40>> Facts. Like, so that's why I'm not53:42afraid to say it. And and and I'm not53:43afraid to like say, "Oh, and I I'm not53:46only could I be wrong, I hope I'm wrong.53:49>> I hope I'm wrong. Please, I hope I'm53:51wrong." Like, God, if you're listening,53:53show me. Show me I'm wrong. Like, I I53:55want to be wrong.53:57>> There's not a lot of people like that.53:58I've met a lot of people, and that's54:01like pretty rare. So, that's54:03>> that's a nice way of saying I'm weird,54:04but I appreciate [laughter] that.54:05>> I was just about to say, it sounds like54:07you have a lot of faith. If you keep54:08coming back to God and leaning on him54:10and questioning him and being like, I'm54:11going to continue do it and you do it,54:13God. You54:14>> Well, that's why when you said like, so54:15you don't believe in God, I was like,54:16whoa, it's the opposite.54:18>> Like, it's the opposite. I absolutely54:20believe in God and God also I feel God54:23in my heart54:24>> and I feel something very special in54:28Jesus. But again, I don't know if that's54:31just because that's the lens54:34>> that was drilled into my head every day54:36from the day I was born until I was in54:38my late teens54:40>> or if it's because that's the truth.54:42>> Like if you talk to someone who was54:44raised Muslim54:46>> and every day was taught the prophet54:48Muhammad and was taught like to them54:51that is like what that resonates in54:54their heart, you know.54:55>> Well, Mr. Johnny, what would you say to54:57for someone if they're like, "Yo, like54:59how do you Yeah, exactly. Like there's55:00all these religions. They kind of say55:01the same thing. How do you know that55:03Christianity out of all of them is the55:05right religion?" I think for me, like I55:07was Muslim for 3 years, Sunni Islam, and55:09and I was in prison. And it was weird in55:12prison, they not to go too much on a55:14tangent, but it's shunned upon to be55:16Catholic or or Christian, but when it's55:19like Muslim or Buddhist or like some55:21Native American, it they're okay with55:22it, right? So, I always figured that was55:24weird. But, um, I realized that all55:26religions do teach you to do well. Uh, I55:29believe Christianity, however, for me55:31was like you can't get yourself out of55:32depression. You need a savior to come55:34and save you out of it. And so, I tried.55:36I've made $450,000 a month. I was had55:39women, had a nice penthouse, 43rd floor,55:42you know, all of it was mine and nice55:44cars. And yet, there was that void, that55:46constant like, why is this it? Like, why55:48am I I have all the reasons to be happy.55:51the circumstances, situations, and yet I55:54want to like off myself literally and55:56and I've attempted three separate55:57occasions and I'm like,55:59>> why is it doesn't make any sense. The56:00world is telling you this is what's56:02going to make you happy. I followed the56:03blueprint,56:04>> made it out the mud. I should have some56:06kind of pride in this. And yet, I don't56:08want to talk about my past. I don't want56:09to talk, right?56:10>> Empty.56:11>> Empty. And I'm just like, okay. And and56:13then when I realized I was that dirty56:15evil sinner and I lived my life exactly56:17how you said it, yolo lifestyle is what56:19I call it. you only live once. So, hey,56:21I'm going to burn in hell or wherever56:22I'm going to go, I'm going to live it56:24up.56:24>> Better be good now cuz I got a bad56:25future. So, let's56:27>> And I was very hedonistic and I was just56:28like, you know what? I'm just going to56:30do what I'm going to do. And at the end56:31of the day, it led me to more emptiness.56:34>> And I was like, dang, I can't live56:36because I'm obviously super depressed,56:38but I also can't die because I'm kind of56:39there's still that fear, right? And so,56:41I couldn't live, couldn't die. I'm56:43miserable. And then that's when, like56:44you say, God put that person in my path,56:47which was the pastor. and he spoke. The56:49number one thing he said, I've been56:50known as a CDC number, a YA number, you56:53know, California Department Corrections56:55number for the longest time. He goes,56:57you're normal and you're an imperfect56:59person trying to produce perfection and57:01that's why you're empty. And I'm like, I57:03barely met this guy. How is he reading57:05my heart? Cuz I've always kept the57:07exterior of like I'm calm, collective,57:10adaptive, etc. And he saw right through57:12me. And I was like, man, this is kind of57:14different. So for anybody out there, I57:16mean, I think all all religions, people57:18don't blatantly just teach you to do57:20crazy stuff and be an evil human being,57:22but who solves that emptiness? For me,57:25it it was Christ. It was God.57:26>> Yeah. And I think I think what you're57:27talking about, too, is is, you know,57:30when you were exposed to this message57:34and to this messenger in the form of the57:36pastor.57:37>> Sure.57:38>> That's the like that spoke to your heart57:40like it filled you.57:41>> Yes. and it filled you in a way that57:44perhaps you know Islam didn't or other57:46approaches to life again like whether57:49even hedonism like hedonism is an57:51approach that yolo lifestyle that's an57:52approach to life57:53>> true57:54>> does it how does it make you feel right57:56>> and and so if if what filled the57:59emptiness was connecting to Christ58:03>> then I understand why you would go oh58:05okay like I feel a fullness in me that I58:08didn't before the thing I've been58:10searching for I found like and when you58:13found it, you found it, right? Like like58:15when you're full, you stop eating.58:17>> Like, okay, so I I found it. I'm full.58:19I'm not hungry for this anymore. I was58:20star like we you were starving.58:23>> Yeah.58:23>> For some connection, and you didn't know58:25what it's to. So, you're like, "Oh,58:27it'll be to women. It'll be to sex.58:28It'll be to drugs. It'll be to money.58:30It'll be to success. My own ego."58:32>> We I have been there. I'm still there in58:35some ways, right? Like, how do you not58:38be there sometimes? Like I I see it in58:40myself now. Like now I I'm recognized58:43when I'm on the street. I walk down the58:45street and people say to me like, "Oh58:47man, I love you. You're so great. You're58:48so great." And I find myself I believe58:50them.58:51>> Like I believe I'm so great. Cuz I'm58:53hearing it 10 times a day now. You know,58:55and and then there's times where I'll be58:57walking down the street and for some58:59strange reason like no one says anything59:01to me that day.59:02>> Yeah.59:03>> And I go,59:05>> "Oh, what is it? Am I walking too fast?59:08[laughter] Like should I did you guys59:10want to America's divorce lawyer James?59:12Anybody anybody want to praise me?59:14Anybody [laughter]59:15around? And what? And and then there's59:18some voice in the back of my head that59:19goes like, "Oh, dude, you really we're59:21doing this now?"59:23>> Like you're going to chase that dragon?59:24>> Sure.59:25>> Like you now you need that.59:26>> Wow.59:27>> Now you need that. Now you Now you're59:28going to if you don't get this praise59:31that you didn't have for 51 years of59:33your life.59:34>> Yeah.59:35>> That now if you don't get that praise,59:36you're going to feel empty. You're going59:38to feel strange. You're going to feel59:40insecure. You're going to question your59:42value because you're not getting this59:44external praise from strangers telling59:46you that you're brilliant. Like59:48>> that's a dangerous thing. It's a59:50dangerous thing. But again, like I I try59:52to be very honest with myself.59:56>> Yeah.59:56>> And I try in these conver every59:59conversation I have to just be very1:00:02honest about what I'm feeling and1:00:05thinking and observing. And I actually1:00:07think that's why people find me1:00:10interesting because we live in a world1:00:12and in a moment where everyone is just1:00:14so fake.1:00:16>> Everyone is just so performative1:00:19>> and and they're they're afraid to say1:00:21they're afraid. They're afraid to say1:00:23they're confused. They're afraid to say,1:00:25"Yeah, I I already think I'm bigger than1:00:27I really am."1:00:29>> Like and and so I I like I don't need1:00:32>> more like I I don't need more pats on1:00:34the back or fans. I already think I'm1:00:37bigger than I am. Like, I'm already1:00:40drunk on my own importance in a world of1:00:448 billion people. Like, eight billion1:00:46people who are as lost and flawed as me1:00:50and as beautiful and perfect as me,1:00:53right? [clears throat] Like where I and1:00:54that's that's again why to me the1:00:57Christian gospel is, you know, the most1:01:00beautiful. It's the one that fills my1:01:02heart. It's the one that chokes me up.1:01:04Like when I talk about Jesus, I'm sure1:01:05you can see when I talk about Jesus,1:01:07sometimes my eyes swell up. To me,1:01:10that's the most powerful1:01:12>> message. It's more powerful than1:01:14anything I read on a page. It's more1:01:16powerful that that something in me feels1:01:20>> overwhelmed1:01:21when I talk about this.1:01:23>> So, I think to myself, maybe that's God.1:01:27>> Like, maybe God is making me feel1:01:29something cuz my brain's so busy that1:01:31he's like, "Oh, let's skip that." Yeah.1:01:33And I'm just going to go right to your1:01:34heart and make you get choked up every1:01:36time you think about this. And maybe1:01:37that's the way that God talks to me. I1:01:39don't know. I'm waiting to see. I hope1:01:40so.1:01:41>> Sure.1:01:41>> We're hiring, guys. Core of the Heart is1:01:43hiring. But listen carefully. We're not1:01:45just building a company. We're building1:01:47one of the fastest growing Christian1:01:48communities in the world. In just a year1:01:50and a half, this community has grown to1:01:52over 3 million strong. And we're nowhere1:01:54near done.1:01:55>> Our mission is simple, but massive. To1:01:56build the best tools and resources to1:01:58help anyone in the world get closer to1:02:00God. Our first immediate goal is to get1:02:02a 100red million people into heaven. So1:02:04when we say we're hiring, understand1:02:06this. We're not looking for employees.1:02:08We're looking for missiondriven A1:02:09players that want to change the world.1:02:10Our criteria is simple. Don't show us1:02:12what you could do. Show us what you've1:02:14already mastered. Like, if you want to1:02:15be the short form editor, show me the1:02:17millions of views you've gotten on Short1:02:18Form. If you want to be the podcast1:02:20producer, show me the shows that you've1:02:22successfully produced. We've learned the1:02:23hard way not to hire off potential. We1:02:25just want to hire off of pure1:02:26experience. people who have already1:02:27proven that they can perform at their1:02:29skill set at the highest level. We have1:02:31jobs available in many different1:02:32departments, media and content, live1:02:35events, and marketing. We also have1:02:36remote jobs and LA based jobs available.1:02:39If you're an A player that has mastered1:02:40their craft and wants to do something1:02:42that glorifies God, then please head to1:02:44the link in our description and check1:02:45out the job board. And lastly, if you're1:02:47an absolute beast at something and you1:02:49don't see it on the job board, please1:02:50reach out. I mean, you know, you might1:02:52be able to do it for us. It might work1:02:53out. So, if you're amazing at something,1:02:55you don't see the perfect job1:02:56description, just reach out, tell us1:02:57what you're good at, maybe it'll work.1:02:58>> Genuinely, I can't do this without a1:03:00team. So, I'm very thankful for anyone1:03:02who supports the mission. I look forward1:03:04to hearing from you guys.1:03:05>> I feel like um if you get tired of1:03:07divorce lawyer, you start reading the1:03:08Bible. You could be a minister.1:03:10>> You know, Carl Lince said that to me, a1:03:12bunch of people have said to me, they're1:03:13like, "You're kind of a pastor for1:03:15someone who's agnostic,1:03:16>> you know, like it's kind of a weird1:03:18you're like an agnostic pastor leaning1:03:20towards Christian. Like, you just1:03:22haven't come out yet." I don't know. You1:03:23know,1:03:24>> well, you said love is loan, not1:03:25permanently gifted.1:03:26>> Can you explain that what that means?1:03:28>> Yeah. So, I talk a lot in my work about1:03:29the fact that we I think almost1:03:32everything in the world is designed or1:03:33in society is designed to take your1:03:35attention away from the fact that you're1:03:37going to die.1:03:39>> Because [clears throat] as long as you1:03:40don't realize or think about the fact1:03:42that you're going to die, you'll buy1:03:44whatever it is they're selling. You'll1:03:45do whatever it is they're telling you to1:03:46do. You'll be a cog in the machinery of1:03:49capitalism. you'll be very busy thinking1:03:51about what new, you know, what new phone1:03:53you need or what new car you should1:03:55drive or what watch you should buy. So,1:03:58I think we we don't like to think about1:04:00the fact that things end.1:04:02>> Yeah.1:04:03>> You know, that everything you own will1:04:05someday be in the dust pile like it will1:04:07just be a big pile of nothing.1:04:09>> Yeah. And the only things that will1:04:12really matter are what you did, how you1:04:14treated people, the experiences that you1:04:16had, you know, the the the the the good1:04:18you put into the world. So I think1:04:21marriage, every marriage ends,1:04:25it ends in death or divorce. Like that's1:04:27kind of weird cuz like when you say to1:04:28someone like, "I hope your marriage ends1:04:30in death." That's like a blessing. Like1:04:33it really [laughter] is like cuz your1:04:35marriage is going to end. It's going to1:04:36end in death or divorce. I hope yours1:04:37ends in death. Like I hope I hope it1:04:39ends in death. I hope because that's the1:04:42goal. The goal is forever with it. But1:04:44it'll never be forever with this person.1:04:46It's while I'm alive. Like people used1:04:48to say to me all the time, they'd be1:04:49like, "Oh man, you have all these1:04:50tattoos. Like you know it's going to be1:04:51there forever, right?" I'm like, "Oh,1:04:53no, no, it's only going to be there for1:04:54like a week or two after I'm dead."1:04:55>> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.1:04:56>> Like cuz then Yeah. Then it's it's not1:04:58So it's not forever. Like cuz this skin1:05:00isn't forever. This body, this flesh is1:05:03not forever. I know that. So1:05:06we get married like we meet a person,1:05:09right? There's you and there's me.1:05:11>> And now there's we,1:05:13>> you know, I [clears throat] meet a1:05:14beautiful and what what do I see? I see1:05:15a beautiful woman. She's got a smile.1:05:18She's got the hair. She smells the way1:05:20they smell. Like women are amazing,1:05:21right? Like to like I I you know, I feel1:05:24this deep connection to women that I've1:05:27felt since I was I don't know 12 years1:05:28old, 13 years old. First time I saw1:05:30Linda Carter on Wonder Woman, probably.1:05:32So that's when I went like, "Yep,1:05:34there's something going on there that I1:05:35like." So I've had, you know, I've been1:05:38married, I'm divorced, I've had1:05:39relationships. I can say very1:05:41confidently I've been in love. And and1:05:42when I was in those first days of love,1:05:44I was absolutely certain this is1:05:47amazing. We'll feel like this forever.1:05:48It's the greatest feeling. It's1:05:50two-legged dope. I mean, it's the best1:05:52drug out there. Like [laughter] it's the1:05:54it is the two-legged dope. Like it is1:05:57like you're chasing the dragon of those1:05:59first months of a relationship forever.1:06:02Like because you're just like, "Oh, that1:06:04was so good." And maybe I'll get that1:06:06back. You know, but the truth is1:06:09>> love isn't permanently gifted. It's1:06:10loaned. And I actually think there's1:06:12value in realizing1:06:15that [snorts] your your connection to1:06:17this person is for a certain period of1:06:19time. They can take it away from you.1:06:20They could leave you. You could leave1:06:22them. you could neglect them and not1:06:25water that plant. Like I I most of the1:06:29message of of my work is about how to1:06:33like keep love, not how to find it. Like1:06:36finding it I think is easy. Like we all1:06:38just we find the opportunity for love a1:06:40million times, right? Making a good1:06:41choice is probably hard. But like once1:06:43you've found love, you found someone you1:06:46connect deeply to, you have similar1:06:48common interests, you have similar1:06:50morals, whatever it might be that's1:06:51important to you, then we just kind of1:06:54go, "Oh, cool. I've got that now. I can1:06:56think about all these other things." And1:06:57and for me, I I think the people that1:07:00end up in my office are people who just1:07:03stop paying attention to this thing that1:07:07was so important to them before and now1:07:09they found it and they have it and they1:07:11just neglect it. It's like you buy an1:07:13amazing sports car1:07:15>> and then you just never take it to the1:07:17car wash. You never change its oil. You1:07:19just let it fall apart. And you were so1:07:22excited about it and well, you don't1:07:23change the oil. You don't take care of1:07:24your car.1:07:25>> It's a lease. I'm going to give it back1:07:26in 3 years. [laughter]1:07:28>> There it is. There it is. So, what did1:07:30you just say exactly?1:07:31>> It's It's on loan.1:07:32>> It's on loan. So, I'm just going to give1:07:34it back in 3 years. Okay. So, if you1:07:37just want to be married for 3 years, you1:07:39can do that.1:07:40>> I guarantee it.1:07:42>> But if you The better metaphor for a1:07:45marriage is1:07:46>> How old are you?1:07:47>> 34.1:07:48>> Okay. 34. God, you look young. Okay. So,1:07:50don't raise. So, so 34 if you married1:07:54right now. Okay, I'm saying to you,1:07:58you're I want you to buy a car. What car1:08:00do you want? What's your car you want1:08:02right now? You can have any car in the1:08:03world. What car do you want? Pick a car.1:08:05What car?1:08:06>> Tesla own. Yeah, the Yeah. Yeah. The car1:08:08I own. I did1:08:09>> P90S or like the Tesla. Yeah, the Cybert1:08:12truck.1:08:12>> Cyrus. All right, that's your dream car.1:08:14Okay, great. By the way, that's going to1:08:16be the only car you'll ever have for the1:08:18rest of your life. You only get one.1:08:20Now, you might not change your answer.1:08:21That's a pretty practical car in the1:08:23scheme of things. Auto drive is a game1:08:25changer.1:08:25>> It's a game changer. Yeah. Amazing. I've1:08:26owned a Tesla. They're fantastic. So, if1:08:28you talk to a guy and he says, "Oh, I1:08:30want a Ferrari." Okay. If I said, "Oh,1:08:33by the way, that's the only car you're1:08:34allowed to have for the rest of your1:08:36life."1:08:37>> You suddenly might go, "Well, maybe not1:08:39a Ferrari then1:08:40>> because I'm not going to put a baby seat1:08:41in the back,1:08:43>> and I'm not going to be able to like1:08:44drive it around to my kids soccer1:08:46practice and get them to wherever they1:08:47need to go." So, if I'm if I'm going to1:08:49have one card, it's going to So, the1:08:51woman who you want in your I think we1:08:53can all agree the woman you wanted in1:08:55your 20s1:08:57>> and the woman you wanted in your 30s and1:09:00the woman you wanted in your 40s might1:09:02be very different. Cuz in your 20s,1:09:04you're like, she's hot, she's fun, she's1:09:07great in bed, she's whatever it might1:09:09be. And in your 30s, you're like, you1:09:10know, she might I want someone who's1:09:12maybe a good mom, has good morals, maybe1:09:14doesn't have a high body count, maybe is1:09:16like like there's things that'll be1:09:17important. shares my faith, shares my1:09:19perspective on politics or wants to live1:09:22in the same general area that I do.1:09:24Okay. So, like that's what like you're1:09:27not thinking about the fact that again1:09:30it seems like a contradiction. This is1:09:32for a really long time. I'm going to be1:09:34with this person, but it's loaned like1:09:38it's not forever. It could go away if1:09:40you don't take care of it.1:09:42>> Okay. So, let's it's two parts. So the1:09:45first is how do you make the right1:09:47decision? What are key factors that you1:09:49think someone should pay attention to1:09:51when they're selecting that potential1:09:53life partner? And then I have a very1:09:54>> So I don't always have the answers to1:09:56these things. I have more questions. But1:09:58I think that that's a good thing1:10:00sometimes because I think sometimes when1:10:01we try to give the answer, we're1:10:02pretending we have wisdom that we might1:10:04not have.1:10:04>> So what I will say is because I don't1:10:06always know the exact answer, but I I'm1:10:09good with trails, you know, like what's1:10:10the trail we should be thinking about.1:10:12So something I think you should think1:10:13about when it comes to choosing a1:10:14partner is you should be really aware of1:10:17two things and they seem again like a1:10:20contradiction, right? One is don't think1:10:24that this person is going to change.1:10:28So like you're dating someone and they1:10:31party a lot. Don't think, well, once we1:10:33get married, they won't party so much.1:10:35Or once we have kids, they won't party1:10:37[clears throat] so much. Or this person1:10:38spends a lot of money and is crazy and1:10:41is very materialistic. And you'll go,1:10:43"Well, once we get married,1:10:44>> he'll settle down or she'll settle down1:10:47or once we have kids, she'll become more1:10:48responsible or he'll become more1:10:50responsible." So, don't think because1:10:52it's not true. And I'm telling you, this1:10:54is not my opinion. I'm a divorce lawyer.1:10:57Like, [laughter] I've facilitated the1:10:59demise of thousands of marriages. Like I1:11:02And by the way, that's on your business1:11:03card.1:11:03>> I didn't make it happen. Actually,1:11:05you'll love my business card. [laughter]1:11:07My business card says on one side James1:11:10J. Sexton, Esquire, and it doesn't have1:11:12any contact information. And on the1:11:14other side, it says around and find out.1:11:17[laughter]1:11:18>> That's my business card. And then they1:11:19just have to figure out how to get in1:11:20touch with me.1:11:22>> So, oh, it doesn't even have a number.1:11:23>> It doesn't have any information.1:11:24[laughter]1:11:25>> It literally It's a white card. I'll1:11:27give you one. It's a white card that1:11:29says on one side, James J. sex corner1:11:31and on the other side it says around and1:11:32find out. [laughter]1:11:33That's it. That's the that's the I but1:11:35again I don't make marriages end. I like1:11:38I don't make it rain. I sell the1:11:40umbrella. Like I'm here to help you with1:11:42this problem that you then have. So So1:11:44the the the key problem there is1:11:45remember we think people are going to1:11:47change. Here's the contradiction.1:11:50>> We also are mistaken in thinking that1:11:52people won't change.1:11:54>> People will definitely change.1:11:56>> Sure.1:11:56>> So you're with a girl. She's gorgeous.1:11:59She's fun. She's like, "Okay, she's1:12:02going to age."1:12:03>> Like, and even though we're here in LA1:12:05and people do a pretty good job of like1:12:06trying to pretend [laughter] that we1:12:08age, we're going to age. They're going1:12:10to get sick. They're going to You're1:12:12going to see her without makeup. You're1:12:14going to see her without Spanx. You're1:12:15going to see her like you're going to1:12:17see you're going to have to see her1:12:19through things. She's going to have to1:12:20see you through things. So, things will1:12:22change. Life will make things happen1:12:25that force the two of you to change. So1:12:27again like I think when you are looking1:12:30for a partner, looking for a potential1:12:32spouse, you have to look at this person1:12:34and ask kind of two contradictory1:12:36questions like do I am I ready for this1:12:39person to not change like that they1:12:42might be exactly the way they are? Can I1:12:44take them as they are?1:12:46>> Yeah.1:12:46>> But also could I take it if certain1:12:49things changed,1:12:50>> right?1:12:50>> Would I tolerate? So because what am I1:12:52willing to sign on for? if I'm willing1:12:54to sign on for certain core values and1:12:57then grow with this person and change1:12:59because you'll change too. I I promise.1:13:00Like I'm much further in the journey.1:13:02I'm in my 50s than you guys. I remember1:13:05being in my 30s and thinking, "Oh, I'm1:13:07I'm finally getting past some of this1:13:10like youthful dumb. I didn't feel like a1:13:12boy anymore." Like in my 20s, I think I1:13:14felt kind of like a boy a lot of the1:13:16time or like a boy wearing a man's suit.1:13:18But the truth was in my 30s, I started1:13:20to go like, "No, I think I'm getting the1:13:21hang of this." Like I think I'm starting1:13:22to figure out, you know, things. In my1:13:2540s, I looked back on my 30s and went1:13:27like, "Oh my god, you had no idea." Like1:13:29you had no real idea you were learning.1:13:30And in my 50s, I look back on my 40s and1:13:32I go, "Oh, I was just starting to figure1:13:34it out." And I have to tell you, like1:13:36it's humbled me that now I go, "Oh, I'll1:13:38probably look back on my 50s someday and1:13:40go, "Oh, yeah, man. You didn't know what1:13:41you were doing yet." You know, and maybe1:13:43when I die, I'll still go like, "Yeah, I1:13:45never quite got it." Like, but but I1:13:47think you have to just again,1:13:49>> love is faith. Like love is1:13:52>> I don't know. This person makes me feel1:13:54some things and I'm prepared for them to1:13:57stay the same. I'm prepared for them to1:13:58change. I'm going to commit to them. I1:14:00mean, you've committed to Jesus.1:14:03>> Like, you married him. Like, you went1:14:05he's my guy. Like, I'm with him. You1:14:06know, whatever he throws at me, whatever1:14:08life throws at me,1:14:09>> Yeah.1:14:10>> we're down. Like, we're together. Like,1:14:12that's we're we're thick as thieves.1:14:13That's a huge commitment. And I'm sure1:14:15you didn't do it lightly. And I think1:14:17marriage should be the same thing.1:14:18>> 100%. What would be your same question1:14:21to you?1:14:22>> I think I think it comes down to1:14:23acceptance, right? What James was saying1:14:26was just it's it's a lot of people think1:14:29relationships thrive off of compromise.1:14:31But what if someone's like I'm doing 50%1:14:34and the person thinks you're doing like1:14:3620%. Right? Where's the compromise? Then1:14:38I mean I'd have to do like 80% 100% to1:14:42show them that I'm only doing 50. So1:14:44acceptance is the most important thing.1:14:46And like he said, accept that they may1:14:48change or accept that they may not1:14:50change. Or it could be both. It could be1:14:52this part didn't change, but this part1:14:54changed. Right? And so again, that takes1:14:57faith though. Acceptance is literally1:14:59the foundation of faith. It's like I1:15:02don't understand, but I'm going to1:15:03accept what you're saying. Right? I1:15:05don't see that this is to me this is1:15:07water. You're saying it's the best1:15:09tasting wine. How? Like I'm touching it.1:15:11It's water. It's filled in six water1:15:13pots. I'm tasting it. It's water. My1:15:15whole experience is telling me it's1:15:16water. Everyone else is saying it's1:15:17water, but you're saying it's wine.1:15:19Okay. I have to accept in order to be1:15:21like, okay. And then they become1:15:22onehearted. Then they witnessed the1:15:24miracle. I think marriages in a in a1:15:26sense are also like miracles, too.1:15:28Because it's it's kind of crazy. I mean,1:15:30I'm sure you know the statistics, but a1:15:32lot of people are getting divorced and1:15:33it's like most people don't make it past1:15:35what the 5year mark is the average. And1:15:38unfortunately, yeah, 56% of marriages1:15:40end in divorce.1:15:41>> That's crazy. And by the way, add to1:15:42that, that's the ones that1:15:44catastrophically fail. Like those are1:15:45the ones that end in divorce.1:15:47>> But how would you define a failed1:15:49marriage? Like1:15:51>> cuz if you like hang in there and hate1:15:53each other1:15:54>> for 20 years, 30 years, and then die,1:15:56like was that did you win?1:15:58>> Like oh, you know, cuz so so think about1:16:00that number. 56% catastrophically fail1:16:03by ending in divorce.1:16:04>> What? 10% stay together for the kids or1:16:07because they don't give away half their1:16:08stuff. I'm being nice. It's probably 20%1:16:10or more. Now, we got something that 76%1:16:13of the time fails. If I said to you,1:16:15there's a 76% chance when you walk out1:16:17the door today, you're going to get hit1:16:18in the head with a bowling ball.1:16:20>> You would stay inside [laughter] or or1:16:23you'd wear a helmet for sure.1:16:26>> But instead, we're like, I love her, she1:16:29loves me. Let's pick out a cake and do1:16:30this thing. Like that's we're and we're1:16:32just, you know, and again like not only1:16:35we're like drunk on mar we think1:16:36marriage is the greatest thing and we1:16:38should like if you were dating a girl1:16:40for a whole bunch of time and you said1:16:42to Johnny I'm getting married. If he1:16:45went why1:16:48>> that would be rude.1:16:49>> Right. Right.1:16:50>> But why why are you getting married?1:16:52What is the what is the problem to which1:16:54getting married is a solution? I love1:16:56this girl. You can love this girl. You1:16:57don't have to be married to her. You1:16:58don't have to get the government1:16:59involved. you know, well, I'm marrying1:17:01her because the the Bible says that we1:17:03should. Okay, that's a better reason.1:17:04It's a better reason, right? But like,1:17:07you know, again, a lot of people,1:17:08they're not marrying for scriptural1:17:10reasons. They're not marrying for1:17:12religious reasons. They're marrying1:17:13because it's like, oh, like that's what1:17:14you do. We've been together for a little1:17:15while, you get married. Like that's the1:17:17thing you're supposed to do. And again,1:17:19tradition1:17:20>> in some ways is the wisdom of people who1:17:23lived before us.1:17:25>> And in other ways, tradition is peer1:17:27pressure exerted by dead people. M1:17:30>> like we're just tell like and by the way1:17:32dead people that like oh you know why1:17:35I'm Christian cuz my great great1:17:38grandmother was Christian [laughter] and1:17:40then my grandmother was Christian. Okay.1:17:42Your great great grandmother had a buggy1:17:44whip. [laughter]1:17:45>> Do you have a buggy whip?1:17:47>> Like did your your great great1:17:49grandmother washed clothes in the stream1:17:52behind the [laughter] house? Do you do1:17:53that? Like do you do you know like1:17:56because the truth is like your your1:17:58great your here's what your great great1:17:59great grandmother who you're modeling1:18:02your life after when it comes to1:18:04marriage.1:18:05>> Here's what she didn't have. The entire1:18:08sum total of human history wisdom and1:18:11every song that's ever been written in1:18:13her hand on [laughter] a device that1:18:15pulls that information from the sky like1:18:17magic.1:18:19>> [laughter]1:18:19>> And if she'd had that, would marriage1:18:22have been like something she was like,1:18:24"Oh, this is a good idea." Like, so1:18:26again, like I'm just a fan of asking the1:18:30question, yeah,1:18:31>> why are you doing this thing? Why are1:18:33you getting married?1:18:35>> So if your answer is, I'm Christian. I1:18:38believe it we are called to marry that a1:18:40man should leave his mother and and and1:18:41and a woman leave her home and they you1:18:44know they become one in the eyes of God1:18:46and they take a vow in the eyes of God1:18:48that we're going to be together and1:18:49we're going to create life together.1:18:51This is okay there's a scriptural basis1:18:53for it. Almost every major religious1:18:55text has some call to marriage or1:18:58whether it's marriage or something very1:19:00much like it. Okay. So if that's your1:19:03reason, I'm not going to argue with it.1:19:05It's faith. I'm going to argue with your1:19:06faith. What would you accept as a What1:19:08would you accept as proof that you1:19:10shouldn't get married? Nothing. Great.1:19:12It's a matter of faith.1:19:13>> Sure.1:19:14>> Um,1:19:16>> that blew his mind.1:19:17>> 100%. You got him, bro.1:19:19>> Never seen him this quiet in my life.1:19:21>> So, my other question is, what's the1:19:23best answer you've ever heard when1:19:24you've asked somebody that, "Oh, why are1:19:26you getting married?"1:19:26>> Yeah.1:19:27>> Well, I actually think the best answers1:19:28are the most real ones, which is like,1:19:31oh, it's tax benefits,1:19:32>> right? or [laughter] I really need I1:19:34really need his health insurance.1:19:36>> Like he has really good health1:19:37insurance. Like because that's a that's1:19:39a totally honest answer, right?1:19:41>> Like it's a totally honest answer. It's1:19:43pragmatic.1:19:44>> Like why are you drinking that water?1:19:46Cuz I'm thirsty. Like that's an honest1:19:48real answer. If the answer was like, you1:19:50know, something more esoteric like,1:19:52well, I believe we all thirst and there1:19:54should be like, okay, [laughter] like or1:19:56I don't know, this is a show you're1:19:57doing for me. Like just I'm thirsty. Oh,1:19:59okay. That makes sense. I get thirsty,1:20:01too. like [laughter] you know so that's1:20:02real but that for me the best answer is1:20:05that or or1:20:08>> even just being self-aware you know it's1:20:11not important to me I love her she loves1:20:13me we're committed to each other but1:20:15like my parents it's really important1:20:17it's really important to them why not1:20:18that's a good reason1:20:19>> right here's what I'll tell you if think1:20:22about1:20:23>> a married couple you know okay now we1:20:26all know some1:20:27>> now let's really narrow the field think1:20:29about a married couple you know that's1:20:31happily married that if they could press1:20:34a button, go back in time, they would do1:20:36it again,1:20:37>> like that. They're like, "Yep, this was1:20:39good. This is I want this. I'm happy.1:20:41I'm really Every day I get up and I go,1:20:42"Yep, I'm glad I'm married." Okay.1:20:45>> Now, for me, that list went from big. I1:20:47know a lot of people that are married to1:20:49like two1:20:50>> Yeah.1:20:50>> like two or three people that I know1:20:52that I'm like, "Yep, they're really1:20:53happy and they're they believe their1:20:55marriage adds value to their life."1:20:56Okay. So, do you think if that couple1:21:00you took away the legal status of1:21:03marriage that they would have fallen1:21:05apart and not like each other? I don't1:21:07think so. I don't think so. I think that1:21:09those people love each other in a real1:21:10way and that they're deeply connected1:21:12and they're compatible in important ways1:21:14and they've figured out how to be1:21:15together and to travel the path1:21:17together. So to me personally,1:21:21I don't know that going, you know what,1:21:25I found my person. Like I found this1:21:27person. I love them. They love me.1:21:29They're my favorite person. I'm their1:21:32favorite person. I think I can help them1:21:35become the most authentic version of1:21:36themselves and see their blind spots. I1:21:39think they want me to become the most1:21:40authentic version of myself. They'll see1:21:42my blind spots. I can trust them. They1:21:44can trust me. We're unified in our1:21:46purpose, but I've definitely got to get1:21:49the government involved. [laughter]1:21:51Like, I've been to the DMV.1:21:54Have you ever Have you ever walked into1:21:56the DMV and been like, "Oh, yeah.1:21:58They're crushing it here. [laughter]1:21:59This is we should put these people in1:22:01charge of everything. They're doing so1:22:02great." Like, and that's the that's what1:22:04marriage is to me.1:22:06>> Yeah.1:22:07>> Because to me,1:22:08>> I'm not a pastor. I'm not a you know, a1:22:11wedding planner. To me, marriage is a1:22:14legal status.1:22:16>> And it doesn't make a lot of sense to me1:22:20if you don't again at least have some1:22:23reason why you're doing it. See, the1:22:24problem I have is that people are just,1:22:27>> yep, you do it. Why? Because that's what1:22:28you do.1:22:30>> And it's a track. What would you say? I1:22:32guess for me, I just as a total normal1:22:34guy, I just like agreements sometimes.1:22:36It's like two people agreeing on1:22:38something that yes, they they would stay1:22:40in love, but it's just like there's1:22:42always disagreements and you have to1:22:43have something to fall back on. It's1:22:44almost like signing a contract when1:22:46you're going to work somewhere. It's1:22:47like I just want an agreement. It's like1:22:49there's just a1:22:51>> structure. Yeah. You want to put a1:22:52structure even if it's not leg even if1:22:55the government's not involved. It's like1:22:56it just feels like an agreement. It's1:22:58like, okay, we're gonna we're agreeing1:23:00to1:23:00>> Well, I think I think when you say an1:23:01agreement, if I'm understanding you1:23:04correctly, what you're saying is it's1:23:05like it's a promise.1:23:06>> Right.1:23:07>> Right. So, so what you're saying and I I1:23:09like that and I think there's something1:23:11to it which is what we're doing is we're1:23:13saying hey and I think that's a very1:23:15honest way of approaching the1:23:17relationship like hey this is great1:23:19right now and I'm choosing you over 81:23:23billion other options1:23:25>> and there's going to be a time where1:23:26it's not great probably [snorts] like1:23:28I'm going to make you mad you're going1:23:29to make me mad but we're not going to1:23:31leave we're going to we're going to do1:23:34this thing we're going to commit to each1:23:36other so like the job. I'm going to have1:23:39days where I go, I'm so glad I work1:23:40here. And I'm going to have days where I1:23:42go, why did I take this job? I want to1:23:44quit right now. But we're not just going1:23:46to quit.1:23:47>> We're going to say, nope. I signed up1:23:49for this job, and there's going to be1:23:51good days. There's going to be hard1:23:52days, but I'm doing1:23:54>> Amen. Amen, brother. I'm in. That's1:23:56That's the way to approach it.1:23:58>> I don't think that's how most people1:24:01approach 100%.1:24:02>> I don't I don't like you've thought1:24:05about it. You're already a step ahead of1:24:07the game.1:24:07>> Yeah.1:24:08>> Like you're already Most people if you1:24:11ask them what is the problem to which1:24:13marriage is a solution?1:24:15>> They can't answer that question.1:24:18>> They've never thought about it.1:24:19>> Y1:24:20>> and I think you have an answer. Your1:24:22answer is this road is hard to walk1:24:25alone. My heart is calling out for1:24:28someone to walk with me. Right. I want1:24:32the comfort of holding someone's hand1:24:35and knowing when it's scary that I'm not1:24:37alone. I also want to comfort someone1:24:40else and give them that. I listen, I1:24:42don't think I can learn everything I1:24:43need to know about myself from myself. I1:24:46need other people. I need other people1:24:48to see my blind spots. But the kind of1:24:51commitment you're talking about in1:24:52marriage is like it's a big commitment.1:24:55You know, I'm choosing because what are1:24:57we do? You're going to be my roommate,1:25:00my co-parent, my financial partner, my1:25:03sexual partner, my travel companion, my1:25:06like wow.1:25:08>> Wow. Like I don't know about you, like1:25:10when I hire1:25:11>> I don't hire one person to fill every1:25:13position.1:25:14>> Sure.1:25:15>> Like I hire like, oh, he's good at1:25:16computers and he's good at the phone and1:25:19he's good salesman.1:25:20>> He's good at everything.1:25:21>> So like I don't look at somebody and go1:25:23like, oh, you can cook, but like so you1:25:24can farm too, right? Like, no, those are1:25:27two totally different things. Like, they1:25:29both have to do with food, but they're1:25:30totally different things. So, I think1:25:33marriage for me, like, again, just like1:25:36I'm talking about marriage to Jesus.1:25:38>> Take it seriously.1:25:39>> Yeah.1:25:40>> Don't say it unless you mean it.1:25:42>> Really think about it before you say it.1:25:44Feel it. Like, because it's partly your1:25:46brain, it's partly your heart, but you1:25:48you should not not take it seriously.1:25:50And it shouldn't be the default. It1:25:53shouldn't be because again when you talk1:25:54to someone like you who had a conversion1:25:58to Christ,1:25:59>> your level of commitment to it is very1:26:02often different than someone who was1:26:04born into a Christian family told this1:26:07is how it is. Cuz whoever it was who1:26:08discovered water, it wasn't a fish.1:26:10>> Like if you're in it,1:26:12>> you never really looked at it that much.1:26:13Why are you Christian? I My mom was1:26:15Christian. My grandma was Christian.1:26:16Like that's okay. You didn't make a1:26:18commitment there.1:26:20>> You were just born into it.1:26:21>> Sure. you know, and and and you know, I1:26:23was Catholic, so they had confirmation1:26:25when you were in, you know, seventh1:26:26grade. So, at seventh grade, I was1:26:28supposed to have been mature enough to1:26:31have studied the gospels and decided,1:26:33"Okay, I'm ready to commit to this."1:26:35Like, trust me, seventh grade, pretty1:26:37much all I did was jerk off all day.1:26:39That [laughter] was it.1:26:40>> Like, my room would have looked like a1:26:41crime scene if they took a black light1:26:43to it. I didn't have one sock that would1:26:46not have stood up on its own. It was a1:26:48rough, rough time. I'm grateful I made1:26:51it through. But the truth is like that1:26:53was at that age we're supposed to1:26:56decide, oh, and by the way, I'm gonna1:26:58I'm gonna love, you know, the Lord.1:27:00That's something we're supposed to do.1:27:02>> Check the socks right now. That's right.1:27:04These are not as stiff. Yeah. It's the1:27:05[laughter] perk of getting older. You're1:27:06pretty calm.1:27:07>> It's funny cuz you say you're never1:27:08ready to get married and you're saying1:27:10even you could go up to the day you die1:27:11and you don't know if you really had a1:27:12full grasp on life. Like 50s, you look1:27:14back into 40s, you're like, I didn't1:27:16really get it. You that could happen all1:27:17the way until you die. I can't never1:27:18really ready for anything.1:27:20>> You're totally right. And look, that's1:27:21that's what makes it a matter of faith.1:27:22Like, you know, like you can't tell me1:27:25unequivocally that in two weeks you1:27:27won't totally feel differently about1:27:29your faith and suddenly say, "Okay, now1:27:30I'm a Hari Krishna." Like, you can't.1:27:33[laughter] We don't know the future.1:27:34Like two weeks from now might not1:27:36happen. There could be a like the1:27:38rapture could occur. Like you have no1:27:40idea what's going. So you're you're1:27:41signing on for a promise1:27:44>> for unknown conditions. You're you're1:27:47promising to do this incredibly1:27:51big thing1:27:52>> for an unfathomable amount of time1:27:56>> and you have no idea. Like my1:27:58grandmother used to say to me, if you1:27:59want to make God laugh, tell him your1:28:02plans,1:28:02>> right?1:28:03>> Yeah.1:28:04>> And and because we all have these plans1:28:06and then1:28:08>> life happens, you know. So I I think the1:28:11fact that you're seeing that Yeah. This1:28:13is a tension. This is a mystery. Like1:28:15are you serious? I'm supposed to like1:28:17commit to this, but I don't know what1:28:18the future is and I'm Yeah, that's1:28:19exactly what it is. The question is is1:28:21do you do you do it anyway? Do you jump1:28:23anyway? Do you take that leap of faith1:28:25and say I'm going to marry this person,1:28:26my marry my destiny to them and marry my1:28:29my body and my soul to them. If you do1:28:32that with serious intention and thought,1:28:37I think you're better off than just1:28:39saying, "I'm doing because it's what you1:28:40do. We've been together for a little1:28:42while. She's going to kill me if I don't1:28:43give her a ring. Let's just [snorts] do1:28:44it."1:28:44You know, it'll be fun to have the party1:28:46and we'll do the whole thing. We'll post1:28:47on Instagram about it. Like that's a bad1:28:49reason to get married.1:28:51>> I 100% agree.1:28:52>> Basically, it's like 76% of marriages1:28:55fail. Are there any statistics about the1:28:57second marriage? Because a lot of times1:28:59you think about it, it's like there's1:29:00nothing in life we get right the first1:29:01time.1:29:02>> First time. So the divorce rate for1:29:03second marriages is actually slightly1:29:05higher1:29:06>> but the marriage but the marriage1:29:08satisfaction rate of second marriages is1:29:12actually much higher than first1:29:14marriages.1:29:15>> What about the third marriage?1:29:16>> Very high divorce rate for third1:29:17marriages lower marriage satisfaction1:29:20rate.1:29:20>> What defines marriage satisfaction?1:29:22>> It's a great question. So, I actually1:29:24find studies of marriage satisfaction1:29:27more interesting than studies of divorce1:29:30>> because studies of divorce just tells me1:29:32someone got divorced, that their1:29:34marriage ended. It doesn't really tell1:29:36me why or if it was an enjoyable1:29:38marriage for either or both of them.1:29:41>> And because you can end a marriage with1:29:43one person liking the marriage and the1:29:45other one saying I don't I don't really1:29:48know if this was a good or bad marriage.1:29:50I don't know what they're satisfied and1:29:51I also again personally1:29:54if somebody said you know I've signed up1:29:57for marriage and we're staying married1:30:00we're never going to get divorced but we1:30:02absolutely hate being married and every1:30:04day is a drudgery and I'm just so1:30:06unhappy that does not that's not a win1:30:09as far as I'm concerned. So I'm very1:30:12interested in people that say I am1:30:14married and I think it adds value to my1:30:17life. I'm glad I'm married. Am I glad1:30:20I'm married 100% of the time? No.1:30:22There's times where I go, you know,1:30:23there there's nothing in my life. That I1:30:26don't once in a while go, "Oh my god,1:30:28why am I why did I do this?" But there1:30:30are some things that it's very rare that1:30:32I think that like being a father,1:30:35>> very rarely have I ever thought, "Man, I1:30:37wish I don't know if I've ever thought I1:30:38wish I didn't have kids." I've had1:30:40moments where I'm like, "This is not a1:30:41fun job." But I've not when they were in1:30:43middle school mostly. But I have to tell1:30:45you like I I don't think you know I have1:30:47a dog I have two dogs that I love very1:30:49very much. I don't think I've ever maybe1:30:51when they like came in with mud on their1:30:53paws and screw I was like why did I get1:30:54dogs? But it was for a second and then1:30:56it went away. I'm very satisfied with1:30:58that decision. Being a lawyer 95% of the1:31:02time I'm very happy with this job. But1:31:04there's moments where I go why did I do1:31:06this? This was stupid. So I think every1:31:08choice you make there's going to be1:31:10moments where you go what what did I do1:31:12this for? That is so crazy that you I1:31:16guess dogs don't live as long, but it's1:31:17like why do people why can they pick a1:31:19dog and keep that for 16 years but not1:31:21away1:31:22>> and love it more than ever?1:31:23>> Yeah. Love it more than anything.1:31:24>> Love it more than anything1:31:25>> because it don't nag. [laughter]1:31:26>> Well, you know the answer the actually1:31:29the answer is what you I think what you1:31:30just said in some ways which is there's1:31:32a joke, you know, like if you want to1:31:34know who loves you more, lock your1:31:36girlfriend and your dog in the trunk of1:31:38a car and come back a half an hour1:31:40later. Which one's happy to see you?1:31:42[laughter] Like the dog will always be1:31:44happy to see you. Like like dog like1:31:46it's not like dogs give us un imaginable1:31:50unquestionable love1:31:52>> and they're only alive for a short time.1:31:55>> And I think that that is what I said1:31:57earlier about you should think about the1:31:59fact that love is not permanently1:32:00gifted. It's loaned. I think the fact1:32:02that dogs die in a short time is part of1:32:06why we care about them and love them so1:32:09very much because we know like, hey, I'm1:32:11not going to have this forever. And that1:32:13makes us mindful of it.1:32:14>> Sure. Absolutely.1:32:16>> Like you have you have a dog?1:32:17>> I have a cat. Two cats.1:32:18>> You have a cat. You have two cats. Okay.1:32:19What what what's one of your cats names?1:32:21Give me one of your cats names.1:32:22>> Katie and Marvin.1:32:23>> Okay. So Marvin. Okay. So how old is1:32:25Marvin?1:32:25>> Uh like four months old.1:32:27>> Oh, so Marvin's a baby. Marvin's a1:32:28kitten. Okay. So here's whenever1:32:30somebody asks me about love, right? Like1:32:33I love my house and I love uh this watch1:32:38and I love my sons. Okay, those are1:32:40three different kinds of love.1:32:41>> So when somebody says to me like what's1:32:43the love you should be looking for when1:32:46you get married? Like the love you1:32:47aspire to?1:32:49>> I'm going to use your cat as an example.1:32:51Okay, so I apologize in advance for this1:32:53example because it goes to a dark place1:32:54but just stick with me.1:32:55>> Novin.1:32:56>> All right. No, no. So Marvin, if I said1:32:58to you, you've only had Marvin four1:32:59months.1:33:00>> Yeah.1:33:00>> If I said to you right now, I'll give1:33:03you $10,000 cash right now for Marvin.1:33:05Would you take it?1:33:06>> No.1:33:07>> Okay. I will give you a million dollars1:33:09for Marvin right now. Would you take it?1:33:11>> I'll take it for him.1:33:13>> That's tough.1:33:14>> Tougher. I mean, yeah. Four months ago,1:33:16I know the whole litter of them. Could1:33:18probably get another Marvin. And that1:33:19that's where my head starts to go. I1:33:20want you to think about you're going to1:33:23take Marvin1:33:24>> and you're going to hand him to me and1:33:26you'll never see him ever again and1:33:28you'll never to him. Will you give me1:33:31Marvin1:33:32>> for a million dollars?1:33:33>> No. No.1:33:34>> $10 million. Will you give me Marvin?1:33:37>> Maybe. Maybe.1:33:39>> Think about it. Think about it hard.1:33:41>> If if if it was genuinely if it was1:33:43Kitty, my 13-year-old cat. No.1:33:45>> All right. Let's go to Kitty.1:33:46>> Okay. No. No.1:33:47>> Kitty's 13.1:33:48>> Yeah.1:33:48>> All right. So, you've got a real1:33:49commitment to Kitty. That's what Okay,1:33:50>> but Kitty's only got a couple years left1:33:52and it's $10 million.1:33:53>> No, no, hang on. Hang on. This is his1:33:55journey. This is his question. Cuz your1:33:57kitty's not your kitty. Kitty's his1:33:59kitty. And Kitty's 13 years old. Okay.1:34:0113 years old.1:34:02>> Hyperventilating.1:34:03>> Would I give you $10 million? Will you1:34:05give me Kitty?1:34:06>> No. No.1:34:06>> You'll never see her again. But give me1:34:07Kitty. Come on. $10 million. $1001:34:10million. Will you give me Kitty? I'm1:34:12going to take her. You never see her1:34:13ever again.1:34:16>> Kitty is tough. My sister I wouldn't1:34:18give away1:34:19>> for a h 100red million. I mean you're1:34:21right. She only has a few more years. I1:34:23mean 100 million.1:34:24>> All right. Wait. Let's use your sister1:34:25then. Great. Let's use your sister.1:34:27>> No. No. Hold on. Hold on.1:34:28>> Think about the time she1:34:29>> Hold on. You got a sister. You love your1:34:30sister. Do you love your sister? Okay.1:34:32So So you love your sister. I'll give1:34:34you $100 million for you to never see1:34:37your sister ever again.1:34:38>> I couldn't do it.1:34:39>> All right. Ready? Wait. Now I'm going to1:34:40change the example1:34:42>> and I apologize because this isn't the1:34:44case. Okay. Knockwood. Yeah. Yeah.1:34:47You are only going to have 30 more days1:34:50to see your sister, no matter what.1:34:52>> Okay? [snorts] Right now, I can see in a1:34:54crystal ball in 30 days, you're never1:34:56going to see your sister again. Okay?1:34:59Would you give me a hundred mill? If I1:35:00give you a hundred million, will you1:35:02give me her right now?1:35:05>> This second? I don't know.1:35:07>> Right now, you never get to see her1:35:08again. You never get to see You've only1:35:09got 30 days left with her.1:35:11>> You've only got 30 days left with her.1:35:13You're going to lose her in 30 days1:35:14anyway. saying you'd have economic1:35:15security for the rest of your life.1:35:16Would you do it?1:35:17>> Pay for the best therapy.1:35:19>> Probably not.1:35:21>> That's love.1:35:23>> That's also a lie. But could he lie?1:35:25>> I don't know that that's a lie. Look,1:35:27the truth is is we all have something.1:35:29It could be a pet, could be a family1:35:32member, it could be our mother, our1:35:33father, it could be a whatever. Whatever1:35:36it is,1:35:38>> we have something1:35:40that there is nothing in the world you1:35:42could give me to take to take this from1:35:46me, even if I knew I was going to lose1:35:48it for sure anyway, because the value of1:35:52having that in my life, even if I I'm1:35:54willing to bet if I said to you, I'll1:35:57give you $100 million, but your sister's1:35:59going to be gone in 10 days anyway, and1:36:00I I'm going to take her right now. You1:36:02don't get to say goodbye. She's mine1:36:03right now, and you're done. and you1:36:05never see her again, but in 10 days she1:36:06was going to be gone anyway, you would1:36:08still say, "I'm not doing it. I'm not1:36:09doing it. She means too much to me. I1:36:11love her too much. I couldn't imagine1:36:13that life without her." And and having1:36:15all that economic security and knowing1:36:16that the price of it was that I gave1:36:18this person, I would never do it. That's1:36:20love. Like that there's nothing you1:36:21would trade for this person. If you can1:36:24feel that way about another person,1:36:27okay, then I think that is the highest1:36:29form of love.1:36:30>> Very good example.1:36:32>> Wow.1:36:33analogy.1:36:34>> And by the way, in like a year, you're1:36:36going to feel the same way about Marvin.1:36:38>> Yeah. Right.1:36:39>> For sure.1:36:39>> Dude, that's so biblical. Like heart.1:36:41>> They only got Marvin in September. 1001:36:43million. That's crazy. [laughter]1:36:45>> Well, here's 100 million.1:36:47>> I know a lot of people with a lot more1:36:50than hund00 million,1:36:52>> right? Yeah.1:36:52>> Like, and I will tell you something,1:36:54>> a lot of them are absolutely miserable.1:36:57>> Yeah.1:36:57>> And they would love to have love in1:36:59their life. M1:37:01>> they're they're in my office because1:37:03their marriage has catastrophically1:37:05failed. Many of them have serious1:37:08substance use issues. Many of them have1:37:10tremendous emptiness in them in their1:37:13hearts. They're they're unbelievably1:37:15unhappy. Many of them. And they have1:37:18[snorts] hundreds of millions if not1:37:20billions of dollars. They are celebrated1:37:22athletes. They are loved by the whole1:37:25world. They can't go to the store1:37:27without people screaming at them how1:37:29amazing they are. are in a crowd forming1:37:31around them and they are empty1:37:34>> and deeply sad because they don't have1:37:39that thing that you have for your1:37:41sister. This this connection where you1:37:44go, I love this person more than I love1:37:46myself. I love this person with all my1:37:48heart. And by the way, to tie it back to1:37:50to Christianity,1:37:53>> that is how I try to understand God's1:37:55love for me.1:37:56>> Yes. Amen. is that God would love me1:37:58that way. Like a good father who would1:38:01go, you could give me $100 million for1:38:05one day of this person's life and I1:38:07wouldn't take it. Like to me, that's1:38:10what everything you do should be1:38:12pursuing that.1:38:14>> Yeah.1:38:14>> Damn.1:38:15>> That's straight up being Christlike. I1:38:17think scripturally it talks about that.1:38:18Not that you love God, but God loved you1:38:21and gave his only begotten son. And then1:38:23it says nothing can pluck you away from1:38:26him. You know, and it's like that's what1:38:28changed my heart too was like, man,1:38:30>> I lived my whole life thinking God1:38:31didn't love me because I, you know, was1:38:34just a piece of garbage human being1:38:36straight up. You know, I did rob people,1:38:37did evil things.1:38:39>> And yet when I saw those verses in1:38:41Hebrews 10, Hebrews 10:17, and I'm like,1:38:44>> wow, God, like you want someone like me,1:38:47like1:38:48>> I don't even love my like I don't even1:38:49care about myself, you know? And that's1:38:51what kind of changed my heart was to go,1:38:53dang, I didn't know you and I I assumed1:38:56who you are. I interpreted who you are1:38:58and then now I finally know who like I1:39:00experienced who you are. And that's what1:39:01changed my heart. And you know, I'm sure1:39:04like I think whether we're talking about1:39:06God's love or the love of another person1:39:10in a marriage,1:39:12>> I think it's much easier to love God or1:39:17love a woman than it is to genuinely1:39:20believe that you are worthy of God's1:39:23love or worthy of a woman's love. Like1:39:27every woman who has ever loved me,1:39:30>> I think1:39:32if she knew me, really knew me, she1:39:35wouldn't love me.1:39:35>> Yeah.1:39:36>> She only loves me because she doesn't1:39:38know all of the awful things in me, my1:39:41whole history, the things I've done.1:39:44>> She doesn't know the lust in my heart1:39:46and the way that I'm distracted. Like,1:39:48she doesn't know if she did, she1:39:50wouldn't love me. I can't be me around1:39:53her1:39:54>> because if I did, she wouldn't love me.1:39:57>> And the same thing I think many of us1:39:59feel in a relationship with God of like,1:40:01"Oh, God couldn't possibly love me.1:40:04>> I'm awful. I'm awful. I do all kinds of1:40:07awful things. Johnny, he's Christian.1:40:08He's a good dude. He does Christian1:40:10things. Like me, I'm a piece of garbage.1:40:12Like I think terrible things. Like I I'm1:40:14I'm I'm awful."1:40:16But the truth is like the most radical I1:40:19think one of the most radical things1:40:21Jesus his message was was that we are1:40:26transformed1:40:28not just by loving others but by being1:40:31loved.1:40:32>> Yes.1:40:32>> And accepting that we are worthy of1:40:34love. And I think that is a equally hard1:40:37thing like to to it loving for me loving1:40:40is a reflex like I I love so many things1:40:44like you know like I've known you guys a1:40:46few minutes I I like all of you. I like1:40:48all of you. You all have an interesting1:40:49point of view. You're all interested1:40:51like we're having a discussion. I I bet1:40:53if I got to know each of you deeply I1:40:56would find things in you that and by the1:40:58way like I give you all more grace than1:41:00I ever give myself. Right. Like1:41:03>> like if somebody I don't hardly know you1:41:05guys, but if somebody talked to you, if1:41:09somebody walked in the door right now1:41:12and the cameras were turned off cuz1:41:13we're done and they started talking to1:41:16you the way I talk to myself when I1:41:19first wake up in the morning.1:41:21>> Dude, what are you doing? Get up, man.1:41:22Come on. You lazy. You're 53. You got to1:41:24get to the gym, bro. Like, it's not1:41:25going well. You got It's all falling1:41:26apart. Like, get in there, you and like1:41:28you got to get you have so much you got1:41:29to do today and like maybe you should1:41:31jerk off before you leave because you're1:41:32going to think more [laughter] like all1:41:34my whole brain if somebody came in this1:41:37door and said to you you lazy what are1:41:39you doing man get up you got stuff to do1:41:41I would be like dude give him a break1:41:43like we just like you know like come on1:41:46he's he's a person he's doing his best1:41:48like well he doesn't you know you know1:41:49how many dumb things he thinks and does1:41:51I'd be like he's human give him a break1:41:53like we all have stuff like leave him1:41:55alone1:41:56>> I would defend you in a way I wouldn't1:41:58defend myself. Right? So, I think that1:42:00that is,1:42:02>> you know, again, the quest for love,1:42:04whether it's God's love, whether it's1:42:05the love of a spouse,1:42:07>> it's about finding someone not only that1:42:09you love, but that you can be1:42:12transformed by their love. Like, I think1:42:14you were transformed by God's love1:42:18>> more so even than by loving God.1:42:20>> Yes.1:42:20>> Like, I think you you came to love God1:42:22and I think you love God in the way a a1:42:25Christian should love God. like to say,1:42:27"You saved me."1:42:28>> Like, "You're here for me. You're you'll1:42:30never fail me. You're you're with me."1:42:32>> Yeah. Yeah.1:42:33>> But I think that1:42:35>> you were most transformed by being loved1:42:37by God. By getting from God the love1:42:40that you maybe didn't get from your1:42:41parents, that you couldn't get from your1:42:42parents. And again, because they're1:42:44human and flawed, not because they're1:42:46not evil. They have the love of God1:42:48within them. They have God's love. Like1:42:50God created them. Like I so I I get all1:42:53of that, but I just think the challenge1:42:55is like we have to hold like ourselves1:43:00to a higher standard in our selection of1:43:03taking love seriously, marriage1:43:05seriously. Taking the search for1:43:08committed love seriously.1:43:10>> Yeah. I think overall we have to do that1:43:12not just with love but just with1:43:14everything1:43:14>> with everything with everything we do1:43:15through our day.1:43:16>> Yeah. 100%. I'm just saying I can see1:43:18how the connection of how someone can1:43:20think that God doesn't love them because1:43:21you're saying things like, "Oh, if she1:43:23knew this, how could she love me? If she1:43:24knew these secrets, how could she love1:43:26me?" But then you also have to admit1:43:27that, well, God does know those things.1:43:30>> And by the way, that's what makes God's1:43:32love if you have faith in it.1:43:34[clears throat]1:43:35>> So transformative1:43:36>> because that's what Jesus was saying was1:43:39Jesus was saying, "Oh, the father sees1:43:41everything.1:43:42>> There's no thought you have that he1:43:44hasn't known that you've made." and he1:43:47loves you anyway, right? Like what a1:43:50>> unbelievable. Like that's the thought1:43:52that makes me tear up. The thought that1:43:55who could love me that way.1:43:57>> That's insane to love anything that way.1:44:00Like that's amazing to be loved that1:44:02way. How would you not be transformed by1:44:05that kind of love? It's an amazing It's1:44:08a superpower to have and feel that love,1:44:11right? But again, like it's really hard.1:44:14Like I for me, I I am so good at putting1:44:20on a show and being funny and being1:44:23smart and being engaging and being1:44:25successful. Look at me. Look at how1:44:27successful I am. Look at how big I am.1:44:29Look at how good I am at what I do.1:44:32But in my heart, I know like, yeah, like1:44:35I'm putting on a character. And and then1:44:38I can't feel anyone's love because when1:44:41someone says, "Oh, I love you." I'm1:44:42like, "No, you you love the character1:44:45I'm playing. You love this show that I1:44:47put on, right? You don't but you love1:44:49this car. You don't know me at all. You1:44:50know the character I'm playing for you.1:44:53If you knew me, you wouldn't love me."1:44:56And that's to me what in the gospel is1:44:59so powerful to think and hard to let in.1:45:02>> Yeah.1:45:03>> Which is that no, no, God knows all of1:45:05that.1:45:06>> Yes. And he loves you fully like his1:45:09child. Which by the way, if you don't1:45:10have children,1:45:12>> the way you love your child is like1:45:14nothing. It's insane how much you It's1:45:16like your heart is walking around. So to1:45:18think that God loves me like a good1:45:21father, that like his child, that1:45:23there's nothing I could do. But that's1:45:26also, by the way, one of the stumbling1:45:28blocks to my faith1:45:30>> because I'm a father.1:45:32>> Yeah.1:45:32>> And I love my sons. And I'm telling you1:45:35right now, there is nothing that my sons1:45:39could do that I would condemn them to1:45:42eternal torment.1:45:43>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's nothing.1:45:45>> That's George.1:45:47>> I have a tremendous problem with that1:45:49aspect of faith because I would be mad1:45:52at them. I would punish them. Like if1:45:54they did, I might say, "I'm not going to1:45:56speak to you anymore because you did1:45:59this horrible thing until you have1:46:01apologized and made amends or until like1:46:04or maybe I'm never going to speak to you1:46:05again." But I there is nothing I I have1:46:08to tell you something. There's there's1:46:10nothing I would I would not condemn1:46:12anyone to eternal torment. Like think of1:46:17so to me the idea that God an allloving1:46:21good father would say1:46:27you lived a beautiful wonderful life of1:46:30compassion and treated people well and1:46:31all these other good works but you1:46:33didn't say the magic words1:46:36you know you didn't say I accept Jesus1:46:38as my personal Lord and Savior and I1:46:40welcome him into my heart and I want you1:46:42I didn't I didn't John 3:16 it Okay.1:46:46And Hitler,1:46:48you know, right before he was about to1:46:49die went, you know, said the magic1:46:52words, you know, said, "I accept Jesus1:46:54into my heart." And he's in heaven right1:46:55now. And that other person's in hell,1:46:57right? Eternal1:46:59>> torment, hellfire. Okay? To me, I can't1:47:04reconcile that. And here's the problem.1:47:06If it if if it's true, it's true. And if1:47:09it's not true, it's not true. Right? So1:47:11if the Bible is the undisputed,1:47:13unassalable word of God, okay, it has a1:47:18whole lot of stuff in it that I look at1:47:21and I go, I that doesn't fit with the1:47:23other stuff in it. See, I'm about1:47:25internal consistency,1:47:27>> you know? So, so when I look at the1:47:29gospel and I go, "All of these pieces1:47:31really speak to my heart and feel true1:47:33to me and I believe them and they're1:47:35they're logically consistent." Things1:47:37like hell1:47:39don't make sense to me.1:47:41>> Johnny, what would you what would you1:47:43say?1:47:43>> I would love for you to answer and I1:47:44just off the basis of like Well, just1:47:46Yeah, I want you to answer.1:47:47>> I think that's where it uh all ties into1:47:49faith, right? If God is saying like I'm1:47:52There's many times too where like I've1:47:54had a friend die in my arms and those1:47:56bullets were for me. We planned a1:47:57robbery and I was supposed to go to the1:47:59right and he was supposed to go to the1:48:01left and I ended up stepping to the1:48:02right and he just stepped in front of1:48:03me. So I went to the left and he got1:48:05smoked, died in my arms. I still1:48:07remember the smell, the gunm smoke, the1:48:09the blood, the convulsing, all of that.1:48:12And I was had survivors guilt and I was1:48:15like this man even to this day honestly1:48:17was a solid homie. He was way better1:48:19than me. I was the one who, you know,1:48:21was always leading everything and just1:48:23being that just head, you know,1:48:25honestly. and and yet he was like, you1:48:28know, loving and compassionate, bailed1:48:30me out before, did all kinds of stuff.1:48:32And I'm like a lot of times was like,1:48:34why God? Like you're just, but in my1:48:37opinion, in my standard, you're this1:48:39isn't just, like I should have died,1:48:41right? And a lot of times I think like1:48:42that. And especially now when I'm famous1:48:44and I'm like, man, I wish he was here1:48:46with me. He would be so happy. We'd be1:48:49hanging out. You He's a solid dude. And1:48:51yet, uh, I went to pastor about then.1:48:54Pastor expressed this to me. And he's1:48:55like, "You know, Johnny, this is where1:48:57faith comes in that sometimes, as you1:49:00had the whole podcast we've been talking1:49:01about is we may not know. There are1:49:03certain things 100% that don't sit right1:49:05with me.1:49:06>> Kids, you know, being boiled in Samaria1:49:08and eaten by their, you know, parents1:49:10and I'm just like,1:49:11>> why would you allow all of these1:49:13things?" Of course, I have those1:49:14thoughts, too. But when it comes down to1:49:16the faith aspect, I'm like, "You know1:49:18what, God? Yeah,1:49:19>> there's many times where I don't1:49:20understand you and there's things where1:49:22I didn't understand and I would put a1:49:24period where you place a comma1:49:26>> and I'm just like, you know what, I I1:49:28genuinely I think this is where you're1:49:30like, this is where I need you to have1:49:31faith, Johnny.1:49:32>> Yeah. And I I look, I think that's a1:49:34perfectly acceptable answer cuz what you1:49:36basically just said is I said hell1:49:40doesn't make sense to me. If God's a1:49:42good father1:49:42>> Yeah. and I'm a good father and I know I1:49:45would never condemn my children to1:49:46eternal torment and God is saying he's a1:49:48good father but he will condemn you to1:49:49eternal torment if you don't sort of1:49:50thing to me that doesn't make sense1:49:53>> your response to that is there's a lot1:49:55of things that don't make sense but I1:49:57have faith1:49:58>> I will never argue with that I will1:50:00never try to take that from you1:50:02>> I I admire that you have that faith1:50:05>> I would love to have it1:50:08>> I would love to have it I I I if there1:50:12was a rule book that I could go, "Yep,1:50:14here it is. This is the rules. This is1:50:16how it works. If you show me the truth,1:50:19I won't deny it,1:50:21>> right? But I have to believe it.1:50:24>> I I I will not claim I believe it if I1:50:27don't. I will not do that. I think that1:50:29is the worst form of hypocrisy.1:50:31>> Like I I don't I don't have a problem1:50:34with people that say I have doubt." I1:50:37don't have a problem with people that1:50:38say I have faith. What I have a problem1:50:40with is people that that claim that they1:50:43have unassalable total faith and they1:50:45clearly have massive doubt and they're1:50:48by the way not living their life in1:50:49accordance with their faith.1:50:51>> Sure.1:50:51>> At all at all.1:50:53>> You know, they're they're not like1:50:55because again like love1:50:57>> is a feeling and love is a verb. Like1:51:00being Christian is a belief and being1:51:03Christian is a system of action. It's a1:51:06way of living. Like the Christians I1:51:09respect are people who live as1:51:12Christians. They wear their faith. It1:51:14informs what they do. It [clears throat]1:51:16informs how they approach problems. Like1:51:18they it is not their spare tire. It's1:51:21their steering wheel. Yeah. you know,1:51:22and to me like that's all if if I'm in1:51:26the presence of Carl Lent is one of1:51:28those, you know, who who lives his life1:51:31in accordance with his faith and fails1:51:34and fails publicly and then says, "I1:51:38failed publicly." Right here, me, I'm a1:51:40sinner. I failed publicly. I have not1:51:42lost my faith. That was my humanity, my1:51:46stupidity. It was the devil. It was all1:51:48those things. I've not lost my faith.1:51:50I'm going to keep moving forward and1:51:51live my life as a Christian. I respect1:51:53that tremendously. I respect it1:51:54tremendously. But can I say that when I1:51:56see it, it resolves that question to my1:51:59satisfaction of why God who creates me1:52:02and is a good father and loves me more1:52:04than anything and and sends his son to1:52:07in part send the message that everything1:52:10should be forgiven and that I should1:52:12forgive those who persecute you and I1:52:14should, you know, I should embrace those1:52:16and love my neighbor as myself and be1:52:18this allloving thing. But if you don't1:52:20get certain things right, you're going1:52:21to be condemned to eternal hellfire.1:52:23Sorry that it doesn't work for me. It1:52:25doesn't make sense for me. I don't think1:52:26I can ever rationally make it make1:52:28sense.1:52:29>> Yeah.1:52:31>> I'm in a similar boat as you, but it1:52:33comes down to what I've heard a lot is1:52:34like um1:52:36>> people also choose to separate1:52:38themselves from their father. So you can1:52:40love your sons infinitely so much that1:52:42you would do anything. your heart1:52:43walking around. But if they choose to1:52:45not have a relationship with you once1:52:47they turn 18, there's nothing you can do1:52:49about that.1:52:49>> 100%. And here's what I'll tell you.1:52:50What you're actually saying with that1:52:52>> is a very Jewish thing.1:52:55>> It really is. It's a very Jewish thing.1:52:57[laughter] Because in Judaism, hell1:52:59isn't a place.1:53:00>> Yeah.1:53:01>> Hell is a state.1:53:02>> True.1:53:02>> And what it is is, and by the way, using1:53:05the Jewish definition, I've been there.1:53:09>> Right. There's a there's an old saying1:53:10that um religion is for people who are1:53:13afraid to go to hell and spirituality is1:53:15for people who've been there. [laughter]1:53:17So the truth is like respectfully you've1:53:20been in hell.1:53:22You've been in hell. You've held someone1:53:24in your arms as they died because of1:53:26your behavior and weakness. You've been1:53:29in the system and seen violence and1:53:32hideous behavior and you've suffered and1:53:35you've made others suffer like you1:53:38you've seen a glimpse of hell as close1:53:41to a glimpse of hell as many people1:53:43would see, right? Like like more than1:53:45most. You've seen some1:53:47>> like that a lot of people have not seen.1:53:50That's amazing. And you came out of it1:53:53>> with deep faith.1:53:55>> There's so much to respect in that.1:53:57That's why we're having this1:53:58conversation because I was like, I I1:54:00want to be around that. I want to learn1:54:02from that. I want that to teach me and1:54:04inform me. I I want to just be in the1:54:06presence. That's amazing to be in the1:54:07presence of people with faith. It's a1:54:09beautiful thing.1:54:10>> But, you know, the the truth is like the1:54:14Jewish conception of hell is it is the1:54:17it is the state of being outside of1:54:19God's grace.1:54:21>> So, when we know when we've sinned, we1:54:25know you feel it. You feel it in your1:54:27heart. I know that feeling in my stomach1:54:29when I do something that I go, I should1:54:31not be doing this.1:54:32>> Like, this isn't good. Like, I should1:54:34not be messaging that. I should not be1:54:36responding to this DM. I should not be1:54:38talking to that girl. I should not be1:54:41taking this money. I should not be like,1:54:44I know. It doesn't have to be like,1:54:46we're going to go rob this place. It can1:54:47be I should not stop at this thing.1:54:51Like, I should not go to that party. I1:54:53should not I should not consume this1:54:55social media. I shouldn't follow this1:54:57chick on social media. I should It's1:54:59only going to tempt me. Yeah, I'm going1:55:00to like looking at the payback. It's1:55:02going to tempt me. I'm not going to do1:55:03that.1:55:05>> And when we don't do it, like when we1:55:07when we do it, when we do the thing we1:55:09know we shouldn't do,1:55:11we create hell. And that is the state of1:55:14being outside of God's grace. So what1:55:16you're saying there is saying, well,1:55:18your sons may get to a point where they1:55:20are like, "Yeah, I don't want anything1:55:22to do with you. I'm going to reject1:55:23you." Okay, that that may be that1:55:26they've chosen hell, right? That they're1:55:29going to be outside of my grace, but1:55:31they're always welcome back. The problem1:55:33I have with hell is1:55:35>> you're not welcome back.1:55:36>> Somehow my entire life1:55:39>> I have the option1:55:41>> of deciding that Jesus is my personal1:55:44Lord and Savior and accepting him into1:55:45my heart and therefore guar opening the1:55:49doors of heaven, right? the way to the1:55:51father.1:55:53And somehow at the moment of death,1:55:56if I haven't made that commitment, I I1:55:59go to eternal hellfire. That's a really1:56:03big jump, man. Like, wouldn't it be that1:56:06like you die and then you get a little1:56:08time to figure it out? No. If you didn't1:56:10in your last breath make that1:56:12commitment, you are going to burn in1:56:14hell for all eternity. Again, for me,1:56:17and I'm not trying to talk anybody out1:56:18of their faith at all. I am saying to1:56:20you as a person who wants to believe and1:56:22wants to have faith and has tremendous1:56:25faith in so many beautiful things in the1:56:27gospel and feels in my heart the message1:56:30of it and feels God's love inside my1:56:33heart and believes in God and sees God1:56:34everywhere and sees the gospel of Christ1:56:36as an incredible opportunity and an1:56:39invitation to understand God.1:56:42>> That doesn't work for me. It it doesn't1:56:44make sense. It doesn't feel Christian,1:56:46period.1:56:47>> I could see where he's coming from. And1:56:48a lot of people have that too. It's like1:56:50they love God, they see it, but that's1:56:52that one thing. It's like, how can we,1:56:55you know, how can a loving God burn us?1:56:57Like, and won't even allow us to come1:56:59out of that.1:57:00>> And see, that's the part where what's1:57:01easy for me to do then. And but see,1:57:04this is the rabbit hole I keep going1:57:05down1:57:06>> because I go, well, maybe that part's1:57:08just it sticks out like a fart in a car.1:57:10Like, what is that here? Like, maybe1:57:12that's just people. Like, maybe that was1:57:14just the people. Like, maybe that isn't1:57:16from God. Like maybe because I can't1:57:18imagine Jesus saying that. I just can't1:57:21imagine Jesus saying that. Like he1:57:23didn't talk about hell. Like Jesus1:57:25doesn't say, "Oh, we're people are going1:57:26to go to eternal torment." He didn't say1:57:28it. It's in the other part. It's in the1:57:30Old Testament, you know? It's it's all1:57:32over the place there. But the truth is1:57:35like I don't if you start to do that, if1:57:38you start to go, "Well, maybe that's1:57:40just the early church." Like, and by the1:57:42way, I know a lot about people1:57:44>> and and and they're full of most of the1:57:47time, right? And they're trying to sell1:57:48you something most of you guys live in1:57:50LA. Like, Jesus, everybody's got an1:57:51agenda. Everybody's going to tell you1:57:53they got a plan for you and you're great1:57:55and we're going to do that. Like,1:57:56everybody's got a game they're running.1:57:57Everybody's got a grift.1:57:58>> True.1:57:59>> And so, you're telling me that wasn't1:58:00true thousands of years ago? Of course1:58:02it was.1:58:03>> Every and and they wrote a thing and1:58:05they're like, "Oh, you got to come do1:58:06this. And if you don't and you're going1:58:08to have eternal hellfire. Well, that'll1:58:10make you do most things if you're like,1:58:11"Well, I guess I got to do that."1:58:13[laughter] Cuz it wasn't enough to say1:58:14to them. Cuz here's the other problem I1:58:16have with that is I understand that the1:58:18threat of eternal hellfire1:58:21is like the threat, right? That would1:58:23make you do almost anything. Like if I1:58:25said to you, "Hey, uh, don't park on1:58:27that street between 5 and 7 or you're1:58:30going to get a ticket." You'd be like,1:58:31"I I can pay a ticket." If I'm like, "If1:58:33you park in that street between 5 and 7,1:58:34you'll burn an eternal hellfire." I'd be1:58:35like, "All right, dude. I'll park1:58:36somewhere else.1:58:37>> It's fine. I'll take an Uber. It doesn't1:58:38matter. Right. So, I I understand that1:58:41incentive structure1:58:43>> of saying like, "Oh, this will be very1:58:44powerful to people." But I think it's1:58:46like a it feels to me like a like a1:58:48threat you make to a little kid, you1:58:51know, like like the boogeyman's going to1:58:53come get you if you don't do X, Y, and1:58:54Z. It just doesn't feel like something1:58:56that fits with the rest of the gospel.1:58:58But the danger of that, you know,1:59:01>> is if you start questioning the parts of1:59:03the Bible, you don't get to do that.1:59:05Yeah,1:59:05>> like you got it's either the thing or1:59:07it's not. Cuz here's the other thing.1:59:08Like I1:59:10the threat of divine punishment1:59:13is not for me why I do the things I do1:59:18like.1:59:19>> Right. Right. It doesn't matter.1:59:20>> Right. Like like I I murder and as many1:59:24people as I want to,1:59:27which is none,1:59:29but but I I do as many as I want to,1:59:31right? Like when you're married, to1:59:34bring it back to marriage, when you're1:59:35married,1:59:37I I don't like the idea that it's like,1:59:39"Oh, we're married and we're only going1:59:41to sleep with each other because if we1:59:44don't, we'll get divorced or if we1:59:46don't, God will be mad." I actually1:59:49think it's supposed to be we're married1:59:52and we sleep with as many people as we1:59:54want to, which is one.1:59:56>> Which is one.1:59:58>> Like when I'm full, I don't eat more.2:00:00Like again, I murder as many people as I2:00:03want to. Zero. Zero. I don't want to.2:00:06And it's not cuz I'm afraid I'll go to2:00:08jail. And it's not cuz I think God will2:00:10be mad at me. Like if he told me right2:00:12now, oh no, you won't go to jail. Like2:00:14the purge crime is legal. You're allowed2:00:16to murder people. God is cool with it if2:00:19you wanted to. I'm not murder. I know2:00:21the two of you looks like the tension2:00:22there would be. [laughter] No, I I I2:00:24would not murder people because I I2:00:26don't mur I wouldn't murder people2:00:28because I don't think people should be2:00:29murdered. I think they have a right to2:00:30live their life. I think they have God's2:00:31love in them. I think there's lots of2:00:32good reasons not to murder somebody. But2:00:34again, I don't think the threat of2:00:35divine punishment is the most mature2:00:39reason to do things.2:00:41>> Hey guys, I want to throw a free event2:00:43in your city, but I need your guys'2:00:44help. So, when you go to a Johnny Chang2:00:46free live event, you can expect to see a2:00:48sermon from Johnny, teachings from the2:00:50Bible, a Q&A with the audience,2:00:52fellowship with our community, and even2:00:53a meet and greet and pictures with2:00:55Johnny. So, if those things sound2:00:56interesting to you and you want that2:00:58event to come to your city, make sure to2:00:59send afters to the number on screen,2:01:01323-613-33577,2:01:04just text the word afters and that's how2:01:06you can help. But in order to throw2:01:08these free events, we also need space.2:01:10So, if you're a church that wants to2:01:11partner with us and will allow us to use2:01:13your building, please hit the form2:01:15below. And what we're ultimately looking2:01:17for is somebody that can house anywhere2:01:19between 500 to 2,000 people depending on2:01:21the city and how many people RSVP. But2:01:24again, just hit the form in the bio,2:01:26fill that out, and we will reach out to2:01:27you.2:01:28>> And guys, send that to your churches. If2:01:29you want us to come, send the form to2:01:31your church. Reach out to them for us.2:01:33And and genuinely tell your friends to2:01:35text in, too. Cuz like when we pick2:01:36which cities to go to, it's based off of2:01:38phone number data. We see where are the2:01:40most core of the heart community2:01:41members. So, if you're living in a2:01:43random city and you're like, I don't2:01:44know if he'll ever come, text in. You2:01:45text in, tell your family to text in,2:01:47tell your friends to text in because we2:01:49see that and we say, oh, there's a ton2:01:50of people out in Florida. Let's let's2:01:52figure it out. Let's find churches.2:01:53let's figure it out. So, that's how you2:01:54guys can help. Seriously, text in, send2:01:56the form to your churches. If you guys2:01:58can basically set this all up, like2:02:00Johnny will show up.2:02:01>> There was an interesting, we talked2:02:02about this before and I had this2:02:03question with my pastor and he was like,2:02:06you know, I've said the same thing. If2:02:07God is love, why does he allow people to2:02:09go to hell forever and just, you know,2:02:11if he's so big on repentance, for2:02:13example, why can't they repent after a2:02:15certain threshold or, you know, a2:02:17certain time frame?2:02:18>> And, um, he kind of expressed that God2:02:20is love. And I wanted I wanted to see2:02:22what you you think about this.2:02:24>> He said this is my mentor, somebody2:02:25who's always made things make sense to2:02:27me.2:02:27>> And it kind of clicked.2:02:28>> You got to give him my number.2:02:30>> I'm not kidding.2:02:31>> Yeah, for sure.2:02:32>> I'd love to [clears throat] talk to him.2:02:32>> Yeah. Yeah. But he um he said that, you2:02:35know, God is love, but he's also just,2:02:37right? And a lot of the times he's like,2:02:40for example, Johnny, when you went to2:02:41Pomona court and you know, they were2:02:43charging you with two counts of assault2:02:45with deadly weapon. And you know, let's2:02:48say you pled the case of, well, in my2:02:50opinion, I feel like, you know, judge,2:02:52I'm sorry, but I had compounded trauma.2:02:54My dad beat me, and in this way, this is2:02:57what led me to be this way. Um, he's2:02:59like, what do you think the judge would2:03:00say to you? And I was like, I'd probably2:03:02laugh at me and be like, yo, like if you2:03:04keep talking, you're going to be held in2:03:05content, right? And so, um, it kind of2:03:08made sense to me like, huh, that's where2:03:10again the faith aspect came in for me at2:03:12least was like2:03:13>> he is love, but love also honors2:03:16justice. And in that way, you know, if2:03:19you love somebody who's who's let's say2:03:21evil, then that's corruption. That's not2:03:23love.2:03:24>> So, when he said that, it kind of made2:03:26more sense to me. What do you think2:03:27about that?2:03:27>> Yeah. See, my response to that would be2:03:29I I believe God would be just,2:03:33>> but2:03:35eternal hellfire doesn't feel just to2:03:38me.2:03:40>> Like, so using that model,2:03:43what you're saying is is that you2:03:45committed a certain crime and that crime2:03:46has a certain sentence associated with2:03:48it. Now, we all know in our justice2:03:51system2:03:52>> if you if you double park2:03:54>> Mhm. You don't get the same sentence as2:03:57assault with a deadly weapon.2:03:58>> Sure. Right.2:03:59>> And if you have five counts of assault2:04:01with a deadly weapon, you get a2:04:03different punishment than two counts of2:04:04assault with a deadly weapon. Right.2:04:06Yes.2:04:06>> That's justice. Like that is just our2:04:09desire to be just, which is the2:04:11punishment fit the crime.2:04:13>> Gotcha.2:04:14>> Okay. So that makes sense to me.2:04:16>> To me, the punishment of eternal2:04:19damnation,2:04:21eternal think about what that means.2:04:23eternal2:04:25torment2:04:25>> forever.2:04:26>> Like forever2:04:28>> you will burn in a lake of fire. That2:04:31that is the most terrifying thought in2:04:34the world. Like I I've eaten a lot of2:04:36psilocybin in my life and I will tell2:04:38you like I once had like a very2:04:41challenging experience where I thought I2:04:43was trapped in like an eternal time2:04:45loop. Like it's what happens if you eat2:04:47like 10 grams of mushrooms and don't2:04:48really think it through. It was the most2:04:50terrifying experience I've had in my2:04:52life. The thought that I this is2:04:54permanent.2:04:54>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.2:04:55>> Was terrifying. So we're talking about a2:04:59book about a allloving God who sends who2:05:03loves you so much. He loves you so much.2:05:07He sends his son as a messenger2:05:12>> to tell you he loves you. And the price2:05:16his son and I love my sons. He sends his2:05:20sons on a suicide mission.2:05:23>> He sends his son who he loves like I2:05:26love my sons. He sends his sons his son2:05:29on a mission to save you, to tell you he2:05:32loves you. To say this is the nature of2:05:35your father, our father. You and I, we2:05:38have the same father. And I'm here to2:05:39tell you he loves you. And don't be2:05:41afraid. But don't do certain things that2:05:43offend him. Like like try to live your2:05:45life in a way that glorifies him. What a2:05:47beautiful message. By the way, if you2:05:49don't say these words, these magic2:05:52words, you the same person who did those2:05:54things, who sent his son, his only son2:05:58[snorts] to die for you. That's how much2:06:00he loves you is he sent his child to die2:06:02for you. There's nothing I love so much2:06:05that I would send my child to die for2:06:07it. So that's how much God loves me.2:06:09That's insane. That I would be worthy of2:06:11that love is insane, amazing, beautiful.2:06:14It's the most humbling, transformative2:06:16thought in the world. But if you get it2:06:18wrong, that same person is going to burn2:06:20you in the lake of fire for the rest of2:06:22eternity. Nope. Sorry. Nope. That makes2:06:26zero fully 0% sense to me. And it's a2:06:30wall that I keep banging into. And no2:06:34one has so far given me an explanation.2:06:36And again, if your explanation is, I get2:06:39it. I can't comport my reason with it,2:06:42but I still have faith. I am so proud of2:06:45you. I I wish I had faith like that.2:06:48>> I ask God right here and now. And I ask2:06:50every one of you2:06:52>> to pray for me2:06:54>> to have that kind of faith because I2:06:56want it so bad. I'm so thirsty for it2:06:58that I'm dying of thirst.2:07:01>> But I I'm not going to sit here in front2:07:04of you and go, "No, I'm good. I have2:07:05that faith." I don't. I'd be lying.2:07:07>> Sure. Yeah. And if you think that way2:07:09about hell, you have to think that about2:07:11heaven, too. Because like why would2:07:12everyone just get into the same heaven?2:07:14Why? It's like cheating on the group2:07:15project. It's like people spend their2:07:17whole lives doing so many amazing good2:07:18things and if you just do one little2:07:20thing, you get into the same heaven.2:07:21>> Well, that I kind of Look, here's what2:07:22I'll tell you. That I kind of get more2:07:25because the truth is like if you're2:07:27really successful, like I'm very2:07:28blessed. I'm very successful.2:07:30>> I don't get jealous of people's success.2:07:32>> Same.2:07:32>> I want everybody to do great. Like I2:07:35have to tell you, like I I'm cheering2:07:36for everybody. Like if you're if you're2:07:38making more money than me, I don't feel2:07:41smaller. I'm like good, man. Like good2:07:43for you. Like I should be proud of2:07:44yourself. Like I'm I want everyone to2:07:47win. So if you said to me, listen, you2:07:50did all these good works and this guy2:07:52didn't do these good works and he gets2:07:54to go to the same heaven as you, I'd be2:07:56like, okay, maybe I had it better than I2:07:59had a better life than Johnny. Like I2:08:01had a better childhood than Listen, I2:08:03described my father as an alcoholic. I2:08:04listen my father never laid a hand on2:08:06me. never beat me once. Not once. You2:08:09know, I I I I had some blessings in my2:08:12life and some gifts in my life that you2:08:14didn't have. I grew up a white kid in2:08:16the suburbs. Like, I had a good ride,2:08:18man. Like, I had a good ride. Like, so2:08:20I'm not going to say, "Well, John, I I2:08:23did more good works than you, so I2:08:25should be in like extra. I get the VIP2:08:27section. I [laughter] get the bottle2:08:28service section of heaven, and you just2:08:30got to hang out with all the regular2:08:31people. You don't have to wait outside,2:08:33but you get to be in regular heaven. and2:08:35I'm in bottle service heaven. That2:08:37doesn't to me it's like dude I don't2:08:38care let everybody let everybody have2:08:41fun let everybody be well that that2:08:43actually feels more like a Jesus thing2:08:45like Jesus would be like the last shall2:08:47be first and that you know those who you2:08:49know like Jesus didn't seem to be all2:08:51that impressed by you know how many good2:08:54works you could do. One of the things I2:08:56absolutely love about the gospel is2:08:57Jesus saying that you know when you do2:08:59good works don't walk around telling2:09:01everybody you did it. Your left hand2:09:02shouldn't know what your right hand is2:09:04doing. You should do your good in secret2:09:06so only the father sees you. And if you2:09:09do good works in the world, you've2:09:11received your reward in the world. So,2:09:14so if you do good works and you don't2:09:15let anyone see it except the father,2:09:17your reward will in heaven will be2:09:19great. That2:09:20>> love that. All about that line. Read2:09:22that line. I'm like, "Yep, that guy.2:09:24Sign me up for that guy."2:09:26>> But that's totally [snorts] different2:09:29>> than the whole hellfire thing. If you2:09:31think people should be able to get out2:09:32of hell, do you think that people can2:09:34also lose their stay in heaven because2:09:37the borders aren't2:09:38>> I mean, listen, I didn't make this story2:09:39up.2:09:40>> Sure. Sure.2:09:40>> You're asking me to defend a story I2:09:42didn't write.2:09:43>> You were God.2:09:43>> But see, here's the thing.2:09:45>> I I I don't think I could understand the2:09:50nature of God. But Jesus2:09:54tells us we can. Like Jesus gave us a2:09:56bunch of metaphors. And and by the way,2:09:59that's what I think they were. Like I2:10:00see the way I interpret the gospels is2:10:02that Jesus came and was telling us2:10:04stories to try to explain something.2:10:07Like Jesus came to us and was trying to2:10:09say this is how much God loves you. Like2:10:11this is how God like like God wants you2:10:13to love yourself. God wants you to treat2:10:15other people with his love. Like that2:10:18makes so much sense to me. It touches my2:10:20heart and it it it should inform your2:10:23life. And Jesus said, "Don't sin."2:10:26Because when you sin, you separate2:10:28yourself from God's love and you deny2:10:31yourself the beauty of God's love and2:10:32how it could transform you and you chase2:10:34these stupid little things that aren't2:10:37going to fill you the way that God's2:10:38love would fill you. That living a just2:10:40good life, a life that comports with2:10:42God's love. This is a beautiful2:10:44sentiment that makes tons of sense to2:10:46me. I don't believe that there would be2:10:48like, oh, in heaven it's like here. I2:10:50think when we die, I can't fathom what2:10:53it is. We probably return to God in some2:10:55fashion, like a drop of water2:10:56re-entering the ocean or something.2:10:58Again, like I don't know.2:11:00>> Yeah.2:11:01>> And I don't claim to know. I'm like, if2:11:03if something if God exists,2:11:07think about what that is. There is an2:11:10omnipotent force2:11:12that created the entire known universe2:11:17and was infinite. So it has a beginning2:11:20of the universe, but it was here before2:11:22the universe. That already blows my2:11:25mind. Yeah. Like I can't. So again, like2:11:28if I like to believe that it's like2:11:31trying to explain physics to a golden2:11:34retriever, right? Of course.2:11:35>> Like,2:11:36>> so what did Jesus do? I feel like Jesus2:11:39came and was start was like, listen,2:11:41>> you can't understand this thing, but let2:11:44me tell you a little bit about what it2:11:47is. It's like a father. It's like a2:11:49this. It's like and and by the way,2:11:50Jesus did a lot of the same things I do.2:11:53Like I explain difficult concepts by2:11:56using stories and metaphors. So I say to2:11:58people like, "Oh, well, it's kind of2:11:59like how you are with your cat." Like I2:12:00just all all I'm doing is using stories2:12:02to try to tell you something that I2:12:04believe is true that is really hard to2:12:06understand.2:12:08>> Right.2:12:09>> Cool. So I want to switch topics here2:12:12real quick. Um, so populations are2:12:15literally crumbling because people don't2:12:17want to procreate, right? Korea, I'm2:12:19about to be ex My people are about to be2:12:20extinct in like 30 years.2:12:22>> And that's a shame cuz like Korean2:12:23barbecue is amazing.2:12:24>> Amazing. But [laughter]2:12:25>> so good. Cot I love it. I just You take2:12:28that away. That's wrong.2:12:29>> Yeah. But but we're going to try, you2:12:30know, I'll pass it on to to Aeron's2:12:32people. Good.2:12:33>> Replicate it. So I guess like what are2:12:36the biggest things that you notice that2:12:38are ruining human connection around the2:12:40globe or in your world view? One example2:12:42could be social media creates the2:12:44illusion of options. So2:12:46>> yeah, I've talked a lot about that in my2:12:47writing and in my speaking. I talk a lot2:12:49about how I think social media is2:12:50amplified like social media is an2:12:52amplifier,2:12:53>> you know, are like the reason I have the2:12:54seven deadly sins tattooed on me is that2:12:56like I think all all modern problems2:12:59like you know they're the same like and2:13:02really what are the seven deadly sins2:13:03except natural human tendencies taken2:13:05too far. Like what's lust? Lust is the2:13:07desire to connect with another person2:13:09sexually and reproduce. taken too far.2:13:12What's gluttony? You have to eat. You2:13:15need to eat. It's taken too far.2:13:17>> You know, like all of these things are2:13:19are things that are normal. What is2:13:20greed? The desire to possess things, to2:13:22have things, to provide for yourself, to2:13:25have the people you love have things2:13:27taken too far. So, they're very human2:13:29things taken too far. Okay. So, what is2:13:31social media? Social media, we are2:13:33social creatures. God made us social2:13:35creatures. We want to connect to each2:13:37other like we are right now. Like all2:13:39the people that are listening to our2:13:41voice are watching us right now. They2:13:43want to connect with us. We want to2:13:45connect with them. Otherwise, we2:13:46wouldn't have any microphones or cameras2:13:48on us. We'd just be four dudes sitting2:13:49here talking to each other. And by the2:13:50way, it still be just as much fun. It2:13:52still be just as insightful and lovely2:13:53and wonderful. It might even be easier2:13:55because we wouldn't have to worry about2:13:56like the technical aspects of it.2:13:58>> But this is a very beautiful human thing2:14:00that we're trying to do.2:14:02>> What is social media? But but2:14:04weaponizing that. And they're they're2:14:06weaponizing it, by the way, not for your2:14:08benefit.2:14:10Like they're doing it for money. They're2:14:12doing it for money. like they are not2:14:14like what I what I tr I want desperately2:14:17to say to young people right now more2:14:20than anything is that2:14:24the tools that are being handed to you2:14:26in the form of Tik Tok and Instagram and2:14:28the anything the algorithm feeds you2:14:33the these are not people who love you2:14:36>> sending this to you.2:14:37>> They are they are people who don't love2:14:40you but they want your money. Y2:14:43>> they want your attention so they can2:14:45sell it to other people.2:14:47>> And there is nothing wrong2:14:50with using that sometimes in some ways,2:14:54right? Like junk food tastes delicious.2:14:58It's delicious. Like I'm I'm I'm from2:15:02the East Coast. I get here In-N-Out.2:15:04First thing I want to do is In-N-Out.2:15:05Love it. So good. Okay. But truth is, if2:15:10you make that the staple of your diet,2:15:12you will die.2:15:14>> If every meal you eat, you eat junk2:15:16food, you will die. It tastes great and2:15:19you can have it once in a while. Social2:15:21media is the same thing. If you make2:15:23this technology that is being created by2:15:26people that don't care about you but2:15:28want your money and they're trying to2:15:30engage your attention and colonize every2:15:33minute of your attention and take you2:15:35away from real human connection.2:15:39I I think you are heading yourself 1002:15:42miles an hour into a brick wall.2:15:43>> That is so true. That is so true. We2:15:45always think that things are made to2:15:47make our lives better. Oh, they made2:15:48this car to make our lives better. They2:15:50made this mic to make our lives better.2:15:51And then and then you get lost to2:15:52everything is made to make your life2:15:53better. These social media apps are no2:15:55longer made to make your life better.2:15:58>> I would argue they are the opposite.2:15:59They are made they are made to make you2:16:02feel insecure and sad. Because here's2:16:05the other thing and this is something I2:16:06I hope you all three of you and anyone2:16:08who's listening will internalize.2:16:11You are now your generation. You are now2:16:16the most advertised to generation in the2:16:20world. Okay? Advertisements are they2:16:23have colonized everywhere around you.2:16:26Okay? Your phone is filled with ads.2:16:29Your there are billboards everywhere.2:16:31You stop at the gas station, there's a2:16:33video ad that plays in the thing. You2:16:34turn on your car, there's an ad. You2:16:36watch YouTube, there's an ad. There's an2:16:38ad. Now, here's why that's important.2:16:42Advertising2:16:43is the opposite of therapy.2:16:47Hear this through. If the purpose of2:16:49therapy is to make you feel better and2:16:53calmer, okay?2:16:56Advertising is the opposite. Here's here2:16:59is a message you will never hear on an2:17:02advertisement.2:17:04You're fine.2:17:06>> You don't need anything. You're perfect2:17:08the way you are. You're fine. You're2:17:10okay. You're okay. You don't You're2:17:13fine.2:17:13>> Yeah.2:17:14>> Advertising2:17:16the core message is always the same.2:17:18You're not okay.2:17:20>> You're not okay. You could be.2:17:21>> Yeah. Yeah.2:17:22>> You could be.2:17:22>> Yeah.2:17:23>> Do you have the right watch? If you get2:17:24the right watch, I'm telling because the2:17:26watch is a symbol of how successful you2:17:27are. And if you have it, people will2:17:28know you're successful and then they'll2:17:29love you. So, you need the And the2:17:31pants, you got to get better p. Those2:17:32are nice pants, but you could do better2:17:34than those pants because those I'm2:17:35telling you because you're listen,2:17:37you're not okay.2:17:38>> You could be. Redemption is at hand. But2:17:42you didn't do it like your socks.2:17:44They're good socks. They're not Calvin2:17:45Klein socks.2:17:46>> Your socks are regular socks. Yeah, his2:17:49socks are good Calvin Klein socks. Your2:17:51socks are just regular socks. Like2:17:53they're I mean that's like But you know2:17:54what? Listen, you could get there. You2:17:57could get there. You're not Johnny.2:17:58You're like you're close. It's going to2:18:00take some time. You're going to do some2:18:01things you got to do to get there. So, I2:18:03think if you take those two things2:18:06>> that advertising is constantly telling2:18:08you that you're getting it wrong and2:18:10you're not okay, okay? And that there's2:18:12something by the way that consumption2:18:14will fill the void. Like, by the way,2:18:17Christianity,2:18:19I'll tell you right now why it hasn't2:18:21been popular for a little while. You2:18:24don't need to buy anything. [laughter]2:18:26>> Like, I understand like the pastors that2:18:29are like, "Hey, send a couple of million2:18:30bucks and redemptions at hand." like2:18:32like like real like Jesus. The only time2:18:35Jesus got straight pissed in the gospel2:18:38and started breaking2:18:40>> Yeah. [laughter]2:18:41>> was when they turned the Lord's house2:18:44into a place where they were selling2:18:46stuff.2:18:47>> Yeah.2:18:47>> And I think it's cuz Jesus was trying to2:18:50say like, "No, no, no. This is the2:18:52opposite of this."2:18:54>> The opposite. Like God is saying there's2:18:56God is in you. The kingdom of God is2:18:58within you and all around you. Right?2:19:01You don't need to buy anything. You2:19:03don't need a special Bible. You don't2:19:04even need to say the mad like our father2:19:06who art in heaven. You don't even have2:19:07to say it that way. You can just go,2:19:09"God, I'm here. I love you. Do with me2:19:11like your will be done." Like that's all2:19:13you got. To me, you guys are buried in2:19:16advertisements, man. And when you2:19:18combine that with the fact, by the way,2:19:19your sex education2:19:22>> was porn2:19:24>> on your phone and on a computer. Like,2:19:27and now you wonder like why I can't2:19:29figure out relationships.2:19:31>> Yeah.2:19:31>> And why I can't And you're you're2:19:34inundated on social media with2:19:36everyone's greatest hits.2:19:39>> How great they look, their best moments.2:19:41They're doing so much better than you.2:19:44And when when do you look at that2:19:45greatest hits? When you're sitting on2:19:47the toilet2:19:48>> or alone on your couch living your gag2:19:51reel.2:19:52>> Yeah. like living your just small2:19:55pathetic feeling moment and everyone2:19:57else is having so much fun and driving2:20:00such a nice car and doing so much better2:20:02than you, man. And the truth is like2:20:06combine this perfect storm, porn,2:20:10shopping, social media showing us2:20:13everything, tempting us in every2:20:15possible way, sending us down the path2:20:17of every one of the seven deadly sins as2:20:19being the path out, you know, and you2:20:22wonder like why are we not feeling2:20:25really good?2:20:26>> How could you feel good in that2:20:28environment,2:20:28>> right?2:20:29>> Like you you you're you're surrounded.2:20:31That's like saying like, you know, I'm2:20:33I'm I'm in, you know, I'm in a lake of2:20:36fire. How come I'm uncomfortable? Like,2:20:39of course you're uncomfortable. It's2:20:41designed to make you uncomfortable so2:20:43you'll buy stuff.2:20:44>> Totally. And like you said about the2:20:45fish with water, we don't even notice2:20:46anymore. This advert this generation is2:20:49so advertised, too, that it's hard to2:20:50tell what even2:20:52South Park episode where the people are2:20:54ads. It's2:20:54>> It happens. So, it happens so2:20:56insidiously. Well, that actually leads2:20:58me to a question for both of you guys2:21:00that I'm just curious how much porn2:21:02actually plays a role in the downfall of2:21:04relationships. And now that the2:21:06internet's blowing up, are you guys2:21:07seeing this increase in people who come2:21:08to you both about porn or even only fans2:21:11or even just scrolling through bikini2:21:13pictures on Instagram? Like, how is2:21:15playing a role in that? [snorts]2:21:15>> Huge. I think for me, at least in my2:21:18case, is like when I talk to people,2:21:20it's especially when it comes to2:21:22marriage counseling, it's always focused2:21:24around lust. It's never like this guy is2:21:27not good enough. He's not doing this2:21:28enough. It's mainly like dude, he can't2:21:31stop watching porn. I thought I was like2:21:32enough for him. What the hell is wrong2:21:34with him? And he told me he wouldn't do2:21:35it and I caught him again. And it's like2:21:37it's kind of crazy. So,2:21:38>> well, it's a pipeline, too.2:21:39>> Yeah.2:21:40>> You know, like like before Johnny2:21:41committed, you know, assault with a2:21:43deadly weapon, two counts. Like that2:21:44wasn't his first crime.2:21:46>> And it's not like he woke up one day was2:21:48like, you know what I think I'm going to2:21:48do? I'm going to I'm going to go down a2:21:50road that's going to lead me to assault2:21:51with it. Like, no. It was like, well,2:21:54I'll just shoplift this thing. Nobody's2:21:55watching. Who cares? You know, it's no2:21:57big deal. Like, and you know, Bikini2:21:59Pics is the entry point to porn.2:22:04>> Porn is an entry point to more porn and2:22:06Only Fans.2:22:07>> All of these things are like it's a2:22:09progression, right? Like, and nobody2:22:10gets up and goes, I want to numb my2:22:13perception to the point where I need to2:22:14watch the most extreme crazy like I2:22:18here's a solution, a practical solution2:22:19for you guys. Like anyone you know is2:22:21having trouble, any man you know,2:22:25you can only watch a video on Pornhub if2:22:28you can say the title of it out loud.2:22:30[laughter]2:22:33>> I'm telling you right now,2:22:34>> Aaron, say the furry furry, whatever.2:22:36>> As a man who's as a man who has engaged2:22:39in all of those things, right?2:22:41>> If I had to say out loud, you know,2:22:45stepsister destroy. Oh, forget it. I'm2:22:47not [laughter]2:22:48I'm just going to call my mom. Like I'm2:22:50not like I'm not going to call my mom.2:22:52>> I'm going to like call my mom. I'm going2:22:53to like I'm going to go do I'm going to2:22:54go play basketball. I'm going to go do2:22:56something else.2:22:57>> That's hilarious.2:22:57>> Because what it is is look, we've all2:23:00been there, guys. We've all gone down2:23:02this rabbit hole where we start with2:23:04something kind of wholesome. We're like,2:23:06"Oh, here's this cute girl in bikini2:23:07pics." And then it's like, "Well, you2:23:09know, now nobody I'm by myself. Nobody's2:23:11home. Let me put on let me put on the2:23:13other websites." And then you start with2:23:14something kind of normal and like five2:23:17minutes later you're like, "How did I2:23:18get in this corner of the internet?"2:23:20>> One sock off,2:23:22>> right? [laughter] One sock,2:23:23>> right? But you're just in this weird2:23:26world, right? Because again, it's like2:23:28dope.2:23:29>> You need more to feel the same thing.2:23:31>> Yeah.2:23:32>> And the internet is happy to serve it to2:23:34you. And then, by the way, the algorithm2:23:36remembers, oh, you liked this. So, next2:23:39time, the minute you log on, I'm going2:23:42to send you the, "Oh, you like I'm going2:23:44to send you a lot of big stuff2:23:45immediately cuz I know you accepted2:23:47cookies." You know, like like there's a2:23:50reason why someone says to you and your2:23:51kids, "Don't accept cookies from2:23:52strangers."2:23:54>> Well, that's true for internet cookies.2:23:56Like it's true for they're they're in a2:23:57van right now trying to feed you and2:24:00figure out what porn you like so they2:24:02can make you keep coming back and having2:24:04more and more of it. And by the way,2:24:06they don't care about you,2:24:07>> right?2:24:08>> They want your money. They don't care2:24:10about you.2:24:10>> Yeah.2:24:11>> And the access is deeper than ever. It's2:24:12like back in the day when it was just2:24:14magazines, like you'd have to look in2:24:15some pretty weird places to find weird2:24:17things.2:24:18>> And people think their sex life isn't2:24:20good,2:24:21>> right?2:24:21>> Cuz it's not like porn,2:24:23>> right? Do you know how many guys I know2:24:24that they're like, "Yeah, like she's2:24:26cool, but like she won't like like, you2:24:27know, let other girls into the bedroom."2:24:28And2:24:30>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]2:24:32>> That look, it's a meme.2:24:34>> Are you That's the metric now.2:24:36>> Yeah.2:24:36>> Like, and by the way, it goes the other2:24:38way. I know women that are like, you2:24:40know, he's a good guy and he's really2:24:41stable, but like he doesn't own like,2:24:42you know, five like sports cars and he2:24:44doesn't he's not, you know, six over six2:24:46feet and he doesn't, you know,2:24:48>> that's the standard now. He's 25 years2:24:51old and he doesn't own a Lotus. Guess2:24:54what? You're not supposed to when you're2:24:5625 years old.2:24:57>> You're 25, you're supposed to be2:24:58figuring it out. You're start trying to2:25:01figure it out. And by the way, if you're2:25:02a woman,2:25:04>> you're supposed to invest before that.2:25:07You don't wait till the stock is high2:25:09and then buy it. That's not how it2:25:11works.2:25:12>> Like the reason the share price is so2:25:14high is people have figured out what2:25:15it's worth. What you're supposed to do2:25:18is find something that has value2:25:20>> and go, "This guy works hard. He's2:25:23loyal. He hustles. He's thoughtful. He's2:25:26honest. He has integrity. He's smart. He2:25:29tries to work on himself. Does he always2:25:31get it right? He doesn't always get it2:25:32right, but he keeps getting up. He keeps2:25:34trying. I'm going to buy that stock. I'm2:25:36going to sign on with him. I'm going to2:25:37help him. I'm going to be part of his2:25:39ecosystem that builds him up. And maybe2:25:41I'll help him directly. Or maybe I'll2:25:43just help him by being like a soft place2:25:45that at the end of the day when he's2:25:47tired and he's frustrated and he's ready2:25:49to give up, I'll sit there and go to2:25:51him, "No, you're doing great. You're2:25:52doing great. Tomorrow you're going to2:25:53feel better. Let's do it."2:25:55>> WHAT IS BETTER THAN THAT?2:25:57>> WHAT IS BETTER than that? Like that you2:26:00should buy that jump on, right? But2:26:02that's not what they're selling. That's2:26:04not what they're selling. They're2:26:05selling us if your girlfriend doesn't2:26:07look like these girls on this Only Fans2:26:09and she doesn't let you do whatever2:26:11sickest crazy thing you can think of2:26:14would be, she's approved. She's doesn't2:26:17care. She's not fun. There's fun girls2:26:19out there. Go find one of them. You're2:26:22going to have so much fun,2:26:24>> right? But you you we all know by the2:26:26way we all know the minute the minute2:26:31that you come after watching porn it's2:26:34like a werewolf. [laughter]2:26:38Like you're just like what happened?2:26:40Like what why am I why am I why am I I2:26:44feel ridiculous right now. Like my pants2:26:47are around my ankles. I have What did I2:26:50do? What did I just sign up for? Oh my2:26:52god. What happened? Like we've2:26:55[laughter] all had the werewolf feeling.2:26:57All of us. All of us.2:26:59>> That's a good way to put it.2:27:00>> So just remember when the moon is going2:27:03up that like, okay, maybe this isn't a2:27:06good idea.2:27:07>> Totally.2:27:09>> You said it best. You wouldn't drive a2:27:10Ferrari for the rest of your life. You2:27:12know, it's going to sometimes they break2:27:13down. So2:27:15>> I'd rather have a good reliable car.2:27:17>> Yeah. I and maybe it's because I'm 53.2:27:19[laughter]2:27:21But one of the perks of being 53 is that2:27:25what you want changes a bit. Like there2:27:27was a time where like a woman saying2:27:29like I want to have sex with you all2:27:31night sounded amazing. [laughter] Now2:27:33I'm like wait all night? Like we're not2:27:35going to sleep.2:27:37>> Like could we maybe have sex once and2:27:39then you'll make me like a low sodium2:27:40breakfast after we get a good sleep?2:27:42That sounds great. Yeah, that sounds2:27:44really good. Like that's I'll sign up2:27:46for that. That sounds good. like all2:27:47night sounds terrible. I really I get2:27:49cranky if I don't sleep. Like I really2:27:51need some sleep. [laughter] And so I I2:27:53think you have to like just be realistic2:27:55about you know what what is it2:27:57>> what is it you really want? You know and2:28:00and again there's so much in the gospel2:28:02of that like seek ye first the kingdom2:28:03of God and all these things will be2:28:05added unto you. Like if you if you make2:28:08your priorities the right priorities2:28:11like keep you know you keep your eye on2:28:13those things I think you'll you'll go2:28:16the right way. But, you know, it's hard,2:28:18man. It's a hard path and and there are2:28:20so many people not trying to help you.2:28:23>> Mhm.2:28:23>> I'm going to take that clip where he was2:28:25like, "He works hard. He's trying his2:28:26best." Put that I'm going to pin that to2:28:28my Instagram profile and then say my2:28:30name Jeremy. I'm going to say Jeremy and2:28:32then I'm going to clip it and then it's2:28:33just going to be a highlight reel.2:28:34>> Yeah. Okay.2:28:36>> Listen. No, listen. Honestly, like this2:28:38is a message for young women.2:28:40>> Like I think young women like we And2:28:42again, it's not their fault. It's not2:28:44their fault. Like I'm not judging young2:28:46women. I'm telling you, they've been2:28:47sold a false bill of goods the same way2:28:48we have. Like, everyone's lying to your2:28:50generation all the time. I'm not mad at2:28:53you guys for that. Like, you shouldn't2:28:55be mad at yourselves for that.2:28:57>> Like, don't be mad at yourselves for the2:28:59fact that you that you bought what they2:29:01sold you.2:29:02>> They put it in such beautiful packaging.2:29:04Why wouldn't you? Yeah.2:29:06>> Why wouldn't you buy that lie? It's g it2:29:08was designed to be seductive. Sin is2:29:12always designed to be seductive.2:29:15>> Yeah. You know, God makes you take the2:29:17stairs, the devil sends a limo.2:29:20>> Like that's how it works. Like that's2:29:22how when I imagine the devil, I've never2:29:24imagined like this hideous creature with2:29:26fangs. I imagine the best looking man2:29:28and the best looking woman.2:29:30>> Devil the bad2:29:31>> who would get me to do anything because2:29:33just the like, oh yeah, it's going to be2:29:35fine. It's going to be great. Like you2:29:37guys all have been sold like men have2:29:39been sold a false bill of goods. You2:29:41need to find a girl who's like a baddie2:29:44and she's got to be super hot and she's2:29:46got to be willing to let you do whatever2:29:47you want in the bedroom and she's got to2:29:49always show up for you 100% of the time.2:29:51And if she doesn't, she's failing you.2:29:52And and women have been sold the false2:29:54bill of goods. Your guy should be an2:29:55earner and a provider. And if he hasn't2:29:57made it by this age, it means he's not2:29:58enough of a hustler because look at how2:29:59great these guys are and they're half2:30:01his age or they're five years younger2:30:02than him and they weren't earn 50 times.2:30:05Like he's not Jack Dory, so he's not2:30:07successful. Like that's insane.2:30:10That's insane. You're not supposed to2:30:12have tens of millions of dollars when,2:30:15by the way, you know how many guys who2:30:17got that amount of money early in their2:30:18life and aren't screwed up as like grown2:30:21men?2:30:22>> Fully zero.2:30:23>> Yeah.2:30:24>> Fully zero, man. Show me one.2:30:26>> Justin Bieber,2:30:28>> show me one. Jack Neil, show me one.2:30:31None of these people, I'm telling you,2:30:33none of these people. They all And by2:30:34the way, my heart bleeds for them. Like2:30:37I I'm 53 years old. I was 51 the first2:30:41time some random stranger went, "Oh my2:30:42god, you're Jim Sexton. I saw you on TV.2:30:44You're so great." And it went right to2:30:46my head.2:30:46>> Yeah.2:30:47>> You're telling me if I was 13 years old2:30:50>> and I sold out stadiums2:30:52>> that I wouldn't be a psycho.2:30:55>> Like, God blessed the fact that he got2:30:57married and he's having a God blessed2:30:59the fact like what he should be so proud2:31:02of himself. Um,2:31:04>> I would be a horrible human being if I2:31:07was famous when I was 17. If I had2:31:09unlimited access to money and people2:31:11around me whatever I wanted to do,2:31:13they'd say yes because they because I2:31:15they could eat off of me. I make2:31:17millions of dollars for them. Like I'm2:31:19telling you, like we got to2:31:21>> give our give each other some grace.2:31:23>> Yeah.2:31:24>> Like give each other like give yourself2:31:26some grace. Like just stop and say,2:31:28"Hey, this system, this society was not2:31:30designed for my betterment." The good2:31:32news is you have control over this. You2:31:35can opt out. Like you can opt out. You2:31:37have 24 hours in the day. You can do2:31:39what you want with it. Like you can2:31:40devote it. You can ch This changes by us2:31:43changing. This changes by someone2:31:45getting up and going, I followed this2:31:47path. It's empty.2:31:49>> The same thing that happened to Johnny.2:31:51You just don't have to have like2:31:52felonies. [laughter]2:31:54>> Like he did it the really hard way2:31:56because that's how Johnny does it.2:31:57That's great. That's great. I respect2:31:58him for it. But you don't have to go2:32:00that far down that road.2:32:02>> Like some people have what we call a low2:32:04bottom,2:32:05>> you know, like they they don't figure it2:32:07out until they are in literal hell.2:32:09>> That's what Johnny had to do. Great. You2:32:11don't have to do that. But you've had a2:32:12taste of hell. You've had a taste of2:32:14hell. You know what it's like to feel2:32:17lost and helpless and to give into the2:32:19angels of your most beastial nature. You2:32:21know, you know what it's like to feel2:32:22despair and hopelessness and to feel2:32:24abandoned by God. Just like Jesus on the2:32:26cross. My God, my God, why have you2:32:28abandoned me? to feel alone, to feel2:32:30rejected, to lose your faith. You felt2:32:32that. Great. Great.2:32:34>> But what what do you do when that2:32:36happens? You try to find God in you. You2:32:40reject the path that you've been on2:32:43>> and you find a better path.2:32:45>> Yeah. And I think that this kind of2:32:48conversation, and I don't just mean this2:32:49one, I mean the conversation you're2:32:51having with your audience and the the2:32:54way you're trying to spread a message,2:32:56this is the antidote to that.2:32:59>> Like this is the antidote. like2:33:01religion,2:33:03spirituality, faith is the antidote2:33:07>> to this insanity, to this consumption,2:33:10to this advertising, to the porn, to the2:33:14constant feeling that you're not enough.2:33:16It's the antidote.2:33:17>> It makes me think about my pastor and2:33:19when you're saying about, you know, how2:33:21you went out and somebody said two years2:33:23ago, you know, oh my gosh, you're Jim2:33:25Sexton, and it went to your head. You2:33:27know, pastor, he always calls me dirt.2:33:29He's like, you know, you're, he says it2:33:31in Korean. He says a bunch of stuff,2:33:33bro. Like, you're dirt, you're poop, you2:33:34know, you're all that. And, and in the2:33:36beginning, this was right when I blew up2:33:37off Soft Under, everybody knew me. And2:33:40he was like, "You got to remember who2:33:42you are, Johnny. You can only end up in2:33:44three places." And I'm like, "Why does2:33:45this guy every single week like tell me2:33:48that?" Beat down.2:33:49>> Yeah. Like literally. And he goes, "If2:33:51you think about it," which I really felt2:33:52the love from him was he gave a sermon2:33:55about me specifically. And he goes, "We2:33:57have a brother right now who's going2:33:58super viral. Goes out literally can't2:34:00take him anywhere. People stop him. They2:34:02love him. They say your story is2:34:03amazing, etc., etc." And he goes, "And2:34:05all I see is people just boosting him2:34:07up."2:34:08>> Yeah.2:34:08>> And he goes, "But there's no one to2:34:09bring him down."2:34:10>> And so he's like, I felt like it was my2:34:12job to bring him down. And I'm so2:34:14thankful to my pastor because till now2:34:16he tells me, "Hey, you're doing 5,0002:34:18people. You're doing big old, you know,2:34:19events. Who who are you? You end up in2:34:22three places. Either the penitentiary2:34:24forever, right? You could get strung out2:34:26three strikes law, you already a2:34:28two-strike felon. You could either end2:34:30up strung out on the streets or dead on2:34:31the streets. He's like, if you remember2:34:33that, Johnny, then you can continue to2:34:35move with boldness but humility. And2:34:37then that allows you to remember who you2:34:39are without Jesus.2:34:41>> And then you become thankful when you2:34:42plug Jesus into the equation, right?2:34:44When you plug God into it. And and2:34:46genuinely, that's what makes me like2:34:48really thankful. And he's like, "What2:34:49what was your dreams?" He always reminds2:34:51me, "What were your dreams?" And I2:34:52always tell him, "A mountain of cocaine,2:34:54penthouse full of women, you know, and2:34:56and threesomes and for and all that."2:34:57And and this was my dream and this is2:34:59what I aspire to be a shot caller in my2:35:00gang, etc., etc. And he goes, "And so2:35:03now when you preach the gospel and2:35:04people are coming up to you, that's your2:35:06way of going, oh, this isn't for me.2:35:08Like I never did. I never wanted this."2:35:10And so people are coming up to me. I2:35:12can't get high-hearted. I can't think2:35:13that I'm an amazing person and I'm just2:35:16a piece of garbage. But God utilized me2:35:18and all of the glory passes on to him.2:35:20And that's the one thing that gets stuck2:35:22in me is like and has stuck with me2:35:23throughout all of these years. I've been2:35:25doing this for 10 years. Recently got2:35:27famous, you know, online. But it's just2:35:29really cool to be able to see that and2:35:31and like you say, our heart bleeds for2:35:33people cuz when I see them, I'm like,2:35:34man, fame in itself is a curse in a lot2:35:37of ways.2:35:37>> Yeah. Well, fame is the mask that eats2:35:38into the wearer.2:35:39>> Yeah.2:35:40>> And fame is a drug.2:35:42>> Yeah.2:35:42>> And and it's an intoxicating drug.2:35:44>> Oh, yeah. and what I will and I2:35:46represent a lot of famous people and2:35:47like I said I've had a little taste of2:35:49that dope and now I know okay yeah this2:35:51is powerful stuff2:35:53>> but you know one of the things of2:35:55growing up Catholic that I really liked2:35:57is Ash Wednesday and Lent2:36:00>> and Lent is in the in the Catholic2:36:02calendar Lent is a season where we2:36:04reflect on our sin2:36:05>> and we reflect on our state as fallen2:36:08because it's preparation for Easter2:36:09which is where we celebrate you know2:36:11Christ's resurrection so everything in2:36:13Lent it's like the winter of of the of2:36:17the calendar2:36:18>> where where where everything is dead and2:36:21everything is dying, right? Like this is2:36:24like we remember on Ash Wednesday, you2:36:26know, we wear the ashes on our head and2:36:28when the when the when the priest puts2:36:30them on your head, he says, "Remember2:36:32that you are dust and to dust you will2:36:34return.2:36:35>> You're dust."2:36:37>> Like you're a hundred years from now,2:36:41everyone who loves you will be gone.2:36:43>> Yeah. and everyone you love will be2:36:45gone. Period.2:36:46>> Period. No one who currently loves you2:36:50will be alive in a hundred years.2:36:52>> Period.2:36:53>> So you are dust and to dust you will2:36:55return. And the most famous person2:36:59>> will be forgotten.2:37:00>> Yeah.2:37:01>> Like I'm older than you. When I was a2:37:03young man, Madonna was the most famous2:37:07person in the world. She was the2:37:08embodiment of like sex and desire. I was2:37:12talking to my son the other day and said2:37:14something about like Madonna and he was2:37:15like, "Oh, like that weird plastic2:37:16surgery lady like and this is the most2:37:20famous person in the world." But again,2:37:22like you know, one of the things that I2:37:24think Johnny has has embraced and I2:37:26admire him for it because even as a a2:37:28man who was older when I got some little2:37:30bit of fame,2:37:33like I I already think I'm bigger than I2:37:35really am. I already think I'm smarter2:37:38than I really am. I already think I'm2:37:40more important than I really am. And one2:37:44of the great things I think about2:37:46religion and one of the great things2:37:47about marriage to tie it together2:37:50>> is2:37:52it is theoretically not just about me.2:37:56>> Like it's about2:37:58>> connecting to another person.2:38:00>> Yes.2:38:00>> Sacrificing and and and wanting their2:38:03destiny to be equally if not more2:38:05important than yours. It's the same sort2:38:08of humility that you're called to as a2:38:10Christian is to say like it's not my2:38:12will, it's God's will. It's not for me,2:38:14it's for others.2:38:16>> Like and and that I think is is the2:38:19solution to the spiritual problem that2:38:22we're having.2:38:23>> Yeah.2:38:23>> And if if we can figure that out, you2:38:26know, I'll have to get a real job. But,2:38:28you know, it's okay. [laughter]2:38:30>> James, this was like incredible. So2:38:33credible. And we definitely got to run2:38:35part two because there's there's2:38:36literally like 20 other questions.2:38:39>> Yeah, we'll do it. This is great. I have2:38:40to tell you, I really really enjoyed2:38:41this and I I2:38:43>> I enjoyed it in the sense that um I hope2:38:46the things I had to say resonated with2:38:48you and equally I will say that that the2:38:51experience of saying them helps me and2:38:54helped me and helps clarify. Like I2:38:56think sometimes when you don't know2:38:59talking about things you you you start2:39:02to like teach yourself things, you know,2:39:05and then hearing each of the things you2:39:07guys had to say and the questions in2:39:08your heart that are also in my heart or2:39:10the answers that you might have found2:39:13cuz we've all been in places that the2:39:14other ones haven't, you know, and we've2:39:16all seen and yet we all have some of the2:39:18exact same. We've stepped on the exact2:39:21same rake, you know, so like there's2:39:23something really great about that. And2:39:25so I this moves me forward and like I'll2:39:28I'm cheering for all of you.2:39:31>> Thank you.2:39:31>> And I hope you're cheering for me.2:39:34>> I hope you're praying for me. I ask you2:39:36to humbly2:39:38>> I will always be present like I I you2:39:41know I'm cheering for you. And and I2:39:43like I said the thought to me that like2:39:45we are cheering for each other. We're2:39:47here for each other. Like it's a2:39:49beautiful thing and and by the way it2:39:50helps me. It moves me forward to help2:39:53and want to help. So this is these are2:39:55great conversations you're having. Keep2:39:57having them. You know, I I2:39:59simultaneously want you to get more2:40:01famous2:40:02>> and and care less about the fame.2:40:05>> But like I think the messages that2:40:06you're bringing people to cuz when2:40:09you've had2:40:10>> the pile of cocaine and the women and2:40:13the money and the cars and the power and2:40:15the ego and you go there's no there2:40:17there.2:40:18>> Yeah. Facts.2:40:19>> It was empty.2:40:20>> Mhm. That is, I think, the most2:40:22important message we can be driving home2:40:24right now because everything around us2:40:25is making us try to crave that stupidity2:40:28and it's beautiful when someone says, "I2:40:30have been there and it's empty."2:40:32>> Yeah.2:40:32>> So, thank you. Thank you guys.2:40:33>> Thank you. Thank you.2:40:34>> Right on.2:40:35>> Amen.2:40:36>> So, that concludes the episode, guys.2:40:38Again, comment your best moments if you2:40:40guys want to see James. We're going to2:40:42have them back on even if you don't.2:40:44Right. You guys, I already know the2:40:45answer. Unanimously is going to be2:40:46>> I mean, it's probably good for you to2:40:47have counsel present anyway.2:40:48>> Yeah. [laughter] Exactly. Exactly.2:40:50Criminal like me need a little2:40:52>> You got to make sure there's no third.2:40:54[laughter]2:40:55>> Is there anything you want to say to2:40:56James?2:40:57>> Yeah, I just want to say thank you,2:40:58James, honestly, for not only just2:41:00giving your time. I know you're very2:41:02busy,2:41:02>> but also just keeping an open mind with2:41:04everything and the fact that you're just2:41:05being raw and authentic is is it's very2:41:08rare to see that nowadays. As you had2:41:10mentioned, a lot of people are wearing2:41:11masks and they're hiding behind certain2:41:13things. And it's cool to have these like2:41:15not really well whether I guess you2:41:16could say tough discussions but to be2:41:18able to like carry yourself and be like2:41:20I'm not disrespectful to you like we can2:41:22agree to disagree and still be able to2:41:24like have dialogue.2:41:26>> Amazing. You know2:41:27>> that's important. Thank you.2:41:28[clears throat] No, thank you. And you2:41:29created an environment where that feels2:41:30comfortable. So that takes a lot for a2:41:32person to do because it shows me how2:41:34confident you are in your faith2:41:36>> and that's very impressive and that's2:41:39very instructive because2:41:40>> I should aspire to that and do aspire to2:41:43that to have a level of faith where2:41:45someone can question my faith and I sit2:41:47there with a smile and go, "Yeah, yeah,2:41:49I get that." Like I I have my faith and2:41:52I believe my faith you my beliefs don't2:41:54require you to believe them. I respect2:41:55that.2:41:56>> Sheesh. Sheesh,2:41:57>> bro.2:41:58>> Yeah. So when we Yeah. Let's get round2:42:00two scheduled immediately.2:42:02>> All righty. All right, y'all. That2:42:03concludes2:42:04>> like, comment, and subscribe.2:42:05>> Oh, yeah. Real quick, comment.2:42:06>> Plug plug everything. Where can people2:42:08find you? You can find me anywhere in2:42:10New York City. No, you can find me at2:42:12NYC Divorces. That's my law firm's2:42:14website. You can go to sextonshow.com.2:42:15That'll lead you to the YouTube channel2:42:17for our show, Better Call Sexton. Um,2:42:19you can find me on Instagram at NYC2:42:21Divorce Lawyer. Uh, and that's pretty2:42:23much it. If you're in New York City in2:42:25Manhattan, usually around the area of2:42:2630th and 10th, right by Hudson Yards in2:42:28the Equinox Hotel. You hang out there2:42:30long enough, you find me, I'd be the2:42:31easiest person in the world to2:42:32assassinate [laughter]2:42:33the2:42:34>> Hey, they better do it from afar cuz2:42:36he's a black belt. You know, black belt2:42:38in jiu-jitsu,2:42:39>> right? Well, I'm not as I'm not as uh2:42:41you know, even even the best guy at2:42:4350some is not as good as the most like2:42:45motivated wrestler in his 20s. So, you2:42:47got you got to do your best. But yes, I2:42:49I appreciate you guys having me and2:42:50giving the opportunity. So,2:42:52>> cool. Thank you, bro. See you for part2:42:53two.2:43:01[music]2:43:13>> [music]
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