Transcript of Ken Burns Breaks Down His Most Iconic Films
GQ
0:00All meaning0:01for everybody accrues in duration. The0:04work that you're proudest of, the0:05relationships you care most about have0:07benefited from your sustained attention.0:09And that's really one of the big things0:11that we have.0:17Brooklyn Bridge.0:20I feel that the0:22that the bridge makes one0:26feel better about being alive. I think0:29it makes you glad that you're part of0:31the human community.0:33That you're part of a specie that could0:35create such a structure. I had to in the0:39late teens and early 20s spend more time0:41in New York than I had planned.0:43But it forced me to go to Brooklyn every0:45morning and then I would every morning0:47walk back over the Brooklyn Bridge.0:50And then in the afternoon go back to0:51Brooklyn and I walk over the Brooklyn0:53Bridge. So I walked over it hundreds and0:55hundreds of times. My best friend was a0:57bookseller and a book distributor. And1:00he threw on my bed one day in January of1:0319771:05when I was sick with pneumonia, a1:06paperback copy of David McCullough's The1:08Great Bridge, the epic story of the1:10building of the Brooklyn Bridge. I think1:11I read it in one, you know, 24-hour1:14period in bed and got up and I turned to1:16my comrades, I said, "This is our next1:18film." And we hadn't even had a first1:20film. We were just working as day1:22laborers for the BBC or the Italian1:25television. And they looked at me like I1:26was crazy and we and you know, 5 and 1/21:28years later we did it. It's just the1:31most stunning work of art and it's a1:33practical, you know, piece of of civic1:37engineering. It was built in an age when1:39one out of every four bridges was uh1:43collapsing. That it gave this durability1:45and strength and why he was offered the1:47the Roebling, John Roebling, and his he1:49was killed in the first few months of1:51the 14-year construction and his young1:53son took over. And so it's one of these1:55great American stories and he himself is1:56paralyzed by the bends, which is called1:59caisson disease after the boxes that are2:02the foundations of the bridge and his2:04heretofore Victorian wife takes over and2:06becomes the chief engineer, Emily2:08Roebling, which we still use as a symbol2:10of, you know, a kind of feminist moment2:13in in American history and a great great2:16great figure. So the story has2:18everything. And so I spent a lot of time2:21doing and part of it was there's ample2:23archives of it, still photographs of2:25course. I still felt that we had that we2:27obligated to cover it in every season2:29from every time of day and night, from2:30every angle. We rented an apartment near2:33it that overlooked so we could do2:34time-lapse photography. We get up early,2:36to this date, the most spectacular light2:38I've ever seen in my life. We call it2:40roll 53 light because that's what it2:42was. Was just kind of a and day kind of2:46drizzly and then everything cleared up2:48and in the west in New Jersey the sun2:50came through and there were still dark2:52gray silver clouds in Manhattan and it2:54just lit everything up and everybody2:56stopped. People on bicycles, you know,2:58people just looked out as if God had3:00just Emily Dickinson called sunsets the3:02far theatricals of day. So I think I3:04must have taken 20 shots and 15 of them3:07are in the final film of that particular3:09light. Tugboats, light on the bridge, a3:11tilt down the World Trade Center, which3:13is breathtaking and one of the first3:15shots of the film and when the film was3:16finished in '82, no one knew that, you3:20know, for most of the life of this film3:22it's had a tragic dimension, the number3:24of times you see the World Trade Center3:26in the in the shots. There's a moment3:28when someone is reading a poem by Bret3:30Harte called The Bridge and we're3:32panning through the cables, but it's an3:34endless pan and following a seagull3:36through it and it's almost like the3:38seagull is landing as musical notes3:40across the thing. It's my first baby in3:43a way and the year later my first3:45daughter was born. So I always sort of3:47think that's the really the beginning of3:49my real life. The Roebling family,3:51that's who built the bridge and its many3:53descendants took over the River Cafe for3:56the 100th birthday of the Brooklyn3:58Bridge, which was in May 24th, uh 1983.4:02Our film had been out for a while. They4:03invited my wife and I and our young4:096-7-month-old daughter, Sarah.4:12And we had this 15-course meal similar4:15to the kinds of outrageous things they'd4:17serve among rich people as celebrating4:19stuff. They replicated, I think, the4:21original sort of celebratory dinner. I4:24remember picking up, scooping up my gal,4:27my little gal, and walking out uh in the4:30River Cafe on this little portion where4:32looking up and I just said, "Please be4:35here for the bicentennial." And she was4:38the only person in the room that had4:39even a remote chance cuz they were4:41everybody else was an adult. But she4:43could be there at 100 and a half. And so4:46that was my wish that I whispered in her4:48ear.4:50The Ken Burns effect.4:53How and where John Roebling found time4:56to do all he did,4:58to attend conventions [music]4:59and write voluminous for scientific5:01journals,5:02practice the flute and the piano, study5:05metaphysics,5:06pour forth these lucubrations on5:08thousands of pages of manuscript, invent5:12tools and machinery,5:13design canals and bridges and himself5:16superintend their construction, how he5:19achieved all this, I say, bewilders5:22imagination. You know, in the old days5:24we have these animation studios in which5:26if you wanted to take a zoom in, and you5:28can't do it by hand with a zoom lens,5:30you have to have it in an animation5:32stand. They were but pre-computers, you5:35would take a frame, click, move5:37everything, click, move everything. 245:40of those is 1 second. So you have to5:42figure that if you want a 10-second5:44zoom, that's 240 frames. But you also5:46want to start, you know, and you can5:47click click click click click at the5:49head and click click click click click5:50at the tail, but you have to move. And5:53we were doing that. And I wanted a5:5533-second5:56zoom in on the only portrait that exists5:59of John Roebling, the designer of the6:01Brooklyn Bridge. And the guy at the6:02animation studio said, "Are you kidding?6:04Nobody's going to look at a 30-second6:06zoom in on somebody? Are you out of your6:07mind?" And it works. You can see there's6:10a great quote read by um Kurt Vonnegut,6:13the the writer, uh who about how6:16unbelievably genius John Roebling was6:19and it and you're just looking at him6:20and getting at his eyes. And um it it6:24does work and I was trying to also not6:26consciously make a point, but I think6:28one of the side benefits is to remind6:30people that meaning accrues in duration.6:33And yes, your eye can visually pick up6:35something at a 48th of a second. If I6:37did one frame out of 24 of that tree and6:41showed you just 1/48 of a second because6:45that 24th has to come to black and then6:47you pull down the next frame and then it6:48has to come up. So it's only a 48th of a6:50second. You'd say tree and you'd know6:53it. Meaning requires something else. And6:56just because you can physiologically6:58read that tree doesn't mean it has any7:00meaning. So sometimes looking at a tree7:02for 5 seconds and then 10 and then7:05something happens. You you you force it.7:08And I would suggest for everybody that7:10all meaning, despite the fact that we7:12love to watch kittens and balls of yarn7:14on YouTube or MTV videos, which I've7:17been told all my professional life have7:19eroded our attention, all meaning7:22for everybody accrues in duration. The7:25work that you're proudest of, the7:26relationships you care most about have7:28benefited from your sustained attention.7:30And that's really one of the big things7:33that we have. We have our word, we have7:36the whatever virtues we may or may not7:38possess, and we have our attention, our7:40ability to concentrate. And they say,7:41"Well, nobody's got attention now.7:43There's millions of different sites."7:45But what do people do now? They binge.7:47They curate the thousands of choices7:50that would drive you mad. You know, it's7:52funny, it's kind of almost gone full7:53circle cuz now there're programs within7:56various editing um applications that8:00permit you to do that, but you're now8:01missing that human eye that set the8:04original frame and and resets it.8:07There's some generational thing. So I'm8:09always yelling at, not yelling, but I'm8:11saying, "That's a zoom to nowhere. Where8:13are you going? What are you looking at?"8:15Because there's a drift in, but it seems8:17to be heading towards your elbow, not8:20your face or, you know, to that object.8:23And so I'm always trying to redirect and8:26try to8:28insist on a human intelligence8:31behind the choice of the starting frame8:33and the ending frame on these zooms. So8:35yeah, it it goes a lot faster now and we8:37can do it and all of the analog days, I8:39mean I have all sorts of pioneer stories8:42of grease pencils where you would draw8:44an approximate a fade, which you would8:46never see or a dissolve or a title on8:49somebody until the film was done done.8:52And now you can do all sorts of effects8:55and see all sorts of titles and do, you8:57know, have things, you know, go off.8:59Lots of bells and whistles that are9:01themselves distracting, the9:02technological tail wagging the dog and9:05not the dog wagging the head. But it's9:06all interesting process, you know, to9:08try to stay true to that meaning, if9:11that's the ultimate thing. The only law9:14of filmmaking I've ever heard that was9:16true came from an old editor in New9:18York, long gone, named Jerry Michaels.9:20And he said, "There's only one law in9:23filmmaking and that's a shot lasts as9:25long as it lasts." And that's just9:27telling you that there is some time and9:29that's what filmmaking's all about.9:31It's, you know,9:32one thing and two things coming together9:35and they've lasted a certain amount of9:36time, will last a certain amount of9:37time, and then by the fact of cutting9:40you've created a third thing. In9:41November of 209:4402, I got a call from Steve Jobs and I9:46went, "Oh yeah, right." But it was. And9:48he said, "Look, I really want to meet9:50with you." And I said, "Fine." So I kind9:52of said, "That's me knocking at the9:53door." So I flew out uh Silicon Valley9:56and I was ushered into this room. This9:58is now December of 2002. We meet, we10:01talk, and then we go and he introduces10:04me to a couple of engineers who and I'm10:05a Luddite and and they're been working10:07on this thing and it shows that you can10:09take the photographs that you upload or10:11download, whatever it is, into your your10:14computer and you can pan and zoom on10:17them and they even add music to it. And10:19he said, "So, next January, next month,10:22January 2003, every Mac computer going10:24forward we didn't have any computers. He10:27said, "Every Mac computer going forward10:29will have this and we want to keep the10:31working title." And I said, "What's10:32that?" And I he said, "The Ken Burns10:34effect." I said,10:35"I don't do commercial endorsements."10:37And he said, "What?" So, he took me back10:39to the office and an hour later we got10:41out and we worked out this deal where10:43ultimately Apple gave us probably more10:45than a million dollars in hardware and10:47software, which I gave away. I do admit10:50that one or two computers stayed cuz10:52everybody was saying, "Ken, we do need a10:54computer. Let's be not Stone Age." So, I10:57felt good about it and then,11:00you know,11:01it's a it's a pale version of what we've11:03tried to do, which is to wake up a still11:05photograph, to treat a still photograph11:07as if it's a master shot that has a long11:09shot, a medium shot, close shot, a tilt,11:12a pan, a reveal, an insert of details.11:15And we try to energetically do that11:18adding complex sound effects, you know,11:20first-person voices in addition to11:21third-person narration, period music,11:24and that movement all in an attempt to11:26sort of wake up the photograph. So,11:28you're looking at it and believing it's11:30real, but also listening to it. Are the11:32troops tramping? Are the cannon firing?11:34Are the bat cracking? Is the crowd11:36cheering? All of those questions you're11:38asking and that, in a very intimate way,11:41It's not a battle, it's not a skirmish,11:43it's a massacre.11:45And by the time we get to the11:46Revolution, there are battles with11:48paintings11:49in which we might have 150 tracks going11:52just to wake you up and stuff traveling11:55across11:56uh your your ear in the stereo uh fix of11:59a a shell going by or something whizzing12:02by your head. We have that ability to do12:04that kind of things depending on where12:07this is ultimately seen. And so,12:10the Ken Burns effect for Apple is one12:13thing and it saved, I have to tell you,12:15millions of vacations and memorial12:19services and weddings and bar mitzvahs12:22and stuff like that as a way to organize12:24and tell a little story. And if you get12:26still to this day on your iPhone, they12:29will offer you a like a memory and it'll12:31be essentially dissolving and panning12:33between these things. It's a kind of12:35wonderful, but still superficial version12:37of a a very elaborate attempt on our12:40part to try to wake up the past and make12:42an image that is not alive come alive.12:48Jazz. [music]12:51Wait, Armstrong invented what, for lack12:55of a more specific phrase, we call12:57swing. He created modern time.12:59>> We don't have to pick Louis Armstrong or13:01Duke Ellington as the kind of center of13:03the story. They pick themselves by their13:04virtuosity, by their earth-changing13:07music. You know, I think Louis Armstrong13:10is the most important person in music.13:12I didn't say jazz, in the 20th century.13:15He is to music, I didn't say jazz, what13:18Freud is to medicine,13:20what the Wright brothers are to travel,13:23what Einstein is to physics. I mean, he13:26took this ensemble music, this brand new13:28on mere utterly American ensemble music13:31and made it a soloist art. He invented13:34modern time, what we call swing, playing13:37before and after a note. Somebody in the13:39Depression in the middle of the early13:41swing days where you're on the road for13:43300 days just trying to make enough13:45money to survive. So, what do you need13:46on the road? And they said, "Just a13:48toothbrush and a picture of Louis13:49Armstrong." He then took it and in and13:52changed singing. And if we had Frank13:54Sinatra here or Billie Holiday or Ella13:56Fitzgerald, they would say all of the13:58singing for this raspy voice that comes14:01from Louis Armstrong. And I did ask Tony14:03Bennett, who is of that bear, and he14:05said, "Yes, Louis Armstrong, that's it."14:07And Duke Ellington saw him in Times14:09Square and said, "I want him on every14:11single instrument." Meaning I I want not14:14only virtuosity, but I want personality14:17and power and spirit and heart. He never14:19found anybody as good as Louis Armstrong14:21on any instrument, but he got nearly14:23there. Armstrong's not a composer, he's14:25a player and he's in the moment. His14:28stuff, if you listen to his Hot Fives14:29and Hot Sevens from the 1920s and early14:32'30s, it's just there's no greater music14:35ever. And Ellington's our greatest14:37composer. He's got more compositions,14:39most prolific, and he's just great. He14:42captured the American experience.14:43There's there's nothing like it. From14:45his earliest pieces like Black and Tan14:47Fantasy,14:49he was already expressing14:51a mood of a people. And it's not to say14:54there aren't other jazz There are.14:56Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie, who14:58invent a whole 'nother form of art form15:00called called uh bebop or bop.15:02>> Miles Davis, who can't play those fancy15:04notes that Parker and and um15:07um Gillespie can do with the speed that15:09they do it with, but he can play just15:10the right ones. And John Coltrane, who's15:12taking it in another direction. And lots15:14of people who are contemporaries of uh15:17Ellington and and Armstrong. It's all15:19the important story to say, but this is,15:21you know, a great story. And I I saw it15:23as the completion of a trilogy. I15:25thought the Civil War was part one. I15:26thought baseball was part two because15:28the first real progress since the Civil15:30Rights after the Civil War was Jackie15:32Robinson when Jack Roosevelt Robinson,15:34the grandson of a slave, made his way to15:37first base at Ebbets Field on April15:3815th, 1947. That's a big deal,15:42right? And that15:44jazz seemed to be the soundtrack of15:46everything we did in the teens and '20s,15:49the '20s for sure, '30s and '40s of15:51films that we had made. And so, it15:52seemed that this was like the Father,15:55the Son, and the Holy Ghost. You know,15:56you just had to to do that. And and it15:59was joyous as was our series on country16:02music. The two most joyous productions16:05we've ever done was Like, for us, when16:07we're in the recording studio with our16:09musicians making our music, there no16:11days that are better than that. Like,16:13you just sit there and it's Wynton16:15Marsalis said this, it's the art of the16:17invisible. It's the only art form16:19that you don't have to see. You can't16:21see. You can see somebody playing, but16:23most of the music we hear you don't see16:25it. You see a play, you see a sculpture,16:27you see a painting, you see uh you know,16:30a movie, you see whatever the thing is,16:33theater. Um you read literature, but16:35music you hear and it works faster than16:37anything. Two notes and it's got you. It16:39grabs you by the heart. And that's why16:41soundtracks are so important and why we16:43think doing it where the music leads and16:45has supremacy is important, but just16:48being able to take something that is16:50normally background music and have it be16:54foreground and middle ground and kind of16:56hyper ground when in some moments people16:58sort of dissect and take apart a piece17:00of music, whether it's in country or17:02jazz. These elemental American17:04contributions, it was just exhilarating.17:06And to then meet somebody like Louis17:08Armstrong, who everybody thinks they17:10know, but when you understand that he is17:13the end-all and be-all of music,17:17not just jazz, but music in the 20th17:19century. And we can prove it and do in17:21the film. And people go, "Oh, come on,17:23you know, whatever." And I'm a huge17:24Beals fan. I'm a child of rock and roll17:26and R&B and, you know, but I'll tell17:29you, as as um17:31people call him Satchmo or Louie, we,17:34out of respect, call him Louis17:35Armstrong. And I finally met this woman17:37along my path that's who is a, lack of a17:40better word, an aura reader, you know, a17:43a psychic of some kind. And I just said17:45this. And I said that everybody says17:47he's a gift from God or an angel and she17:49closed her eyes and said, "Biggest wings17:51I've ever seen." I just thought, you17:53know, if you ever if you live your life17:54right, you might have a chance to see17:56Gabriel uh17:58being blown out of the clouds by Louis18:00Armstrong.18:02The Civil War.18:04>> [music]18:06>> The Civil War was fought in 10,00018:08places, from Valverde, New Mexico and18:11Tullahoma, Tennessee18:13to St. Albans, Vermont and Fernandina on18:15the Florida coast.18:19>> [music]18:20>> More than 3 million Americans fought in18:22it.18:23And over 600,000 men,18:252% of the population, died in it. You18:28know, we do our music18:30ass-backwards from everybody else. We18:32record it before we start editing, most18:35of it, and we use it from the very18:37beginning to determine. Traditionally, a18:39film has a score, which is a18:41mathematical term, meaning it's added.18:43But we let the music be an organic18:46figure in our um18:49our story from the beginning18:50determining. We'll cut a narration down18:53or lengthen it to fit a phrase of music.18:56And so, I've used session musician who18:58collect all the different stuff and they19:00had loosely formed many of the session19:02musician a band called Fiddle Fever. And19:05in the early '80s, they one of the19:07members that was heading off to19:09Nashville19:10to make his fortune there, a guitarist,19:13sent me this stuff and it was old vinyl19:15record and I listened to the first song19:16as I did. I listened to the second, the19:18third, and on the fourth song was this19:20piece called Ashokan Farewell, written19:22by their fiddle player named Jay Ungar.19:24And I just said, "Oh my god, this is19:25going to be the theme for the Civil War19:27series." I went to Jay and he's a Jewish19:30kid from the Bronx who runs a music19:32school, still does,19:34uh called the the Ashokan Music Festival19:36and it broke up at the end of the summer19:38and everybody went back to the new19:39school year. And he sat down and wrote19:42the most beautiful Scotch-Irish lament I19:44have ever heard called Ashokan Farewell.19:46And he goes, "Fine." I said, "How much19:47do you want?" He goes, "500." I said,19:49"It's not enough." And I kept adding19:51money and time By the time the film was19:53edited, finished, and out, I had given19:55him $5,000, which was I still felt not19:58enough. And the only consolation I have20:00is that he's probably made more than a20:03million dollars in ASCAP, you know,20:05royalties for reuses wherever it's done.20:07I hope way more than that. And I can20:09tell you today, today, that this is20:12being played at 100 memorial services,20:15100 weddings, 100 renewal of vows,20:19sometimes with the letter of a soldier20:22writing back to his wife before he was20:24killed in battle about his love for her20:26that ends our first episode. But20:29Ashokan Farewell still has a set of20:31notes and chords that are as perfect as20:34I've ever come across. Sarah,20:38my love for [music] you is deathless.20:40It seems to bind me with mighty cables20:42that nothing but omnipotence can break.20:45And yet my love of country comes over me20:47like a strong wind and bears me20:50irresistibly [music]20:51with all those chains to the20:52battlefield. So this is an amazing20:55story, which is we had assembled a body20:58of20:59um maybe two dozen scholars, Pulitzer21:01Prize winning, I mean, amazing scholars21:04of of the Civil War. And we kept asking21:07them for first-person voices. And21:11they hadn't really done that. And I had21:14a second and a then a third meeting21:15assembling all of these folks in21:17Washington. I said, "You know, we really21:19need you." There'd been one historian,21:20Barbara Fields, who's in the film, who'd21:22sent us a lot of first-person voices of21:26very rare or newly uncovered, freed,21:29enslaved people. And it it really21:31helpful stuff. But nobody else had. And21:33then one of the historians that we'd21:34used um from Illinois had um sent this21:39letter. And my brother picked it up and21:41started reading it out loud and couldn't21:42finish it and handed it, and I read it21:44and couldn't finish it. And I handed it21:46to him. And it was about the Battle of21:48Manassas, which is about two-thirds of21:50the way, three-quarters of the way21:51through the first episode. And he said,21:53"In the Battle of Manassas?" I said,21:55"No, at the very end. We'll look back at21:58it. We'll use this as the end of the22:00first episode." I made a copy. I Scotch22:03taped one copy and put it, which still22:06to this day remains in my office,22:09yellowed, completely yellowed. And22:11another one I folded up and put in my22:13wallet, which for many years I'd bring22:15out and read to audiences, you know,22:17whenever they would ask, until it fell22:20apart. It's It's one of the most22:21beautiful letters, and it went with the22:23Ashokan Farewell, and it's the story of22:26a guy named Sullivan Ballou who's22:27writing back home to his wife in22:29Smithfield, Rhode Island, and it's about22:32love. It's about love of country. It's22:34about love of government. It's about22:36love of cause. It's about love of22:38family. It's about love of children.22:41It's about love of love and and between22:43two people that transcends mean, you22:46know, there's22:48every man wishes he could say this to22:49the woman he loves, and every woman, of22:51course, says, "I wish my man knew how to22:53say that to me." So it's the epitome of22:55how you express love. And then he is as22:58he as he is thinking is killed a week23:01later23:02at the Battle of Bull Run, but he's23:03telling her that no matter what happens,23:06he'll always be there. And when the soft23:08breeze fans your cheek, it will be my23:10spirit passing by. Do not mourn me dead.23:13You know, we'll meet again. And it's23:15you know, nobody's ever found the23:17original letter, so there's, you know,23:19snarky folks who say it doesn't really23:21exist, somebody wrote it and made it up.23:23You know where the letter is. It's23:24buried with Sarah. She's not She's not23:26going to go to the grave without23:28carrying that letter.23:30The war.23:34The Second World War23:35brought out the best and the worst in a23:38[music] generation23:40and blurred the two23:42so that they became, at times, almost23:45indistinguishable. Our film on the World23:47War II, which we call The War, had,23:50unlike any other subject I've tackled,23:52literally hundreds of brethren, other23:55films about that subject. It's the23:57greatest cataclysm in human history, as23:59we say in the opening sentences of the24:01film. And for us, it was then, how do24:03you see it in a new light? It had to be24:05done. I'd vowed after the Civil War not24:07to do any more wars. It was really24:09tough, but then I'd heard that a24:10thousand US veterans of the war were24:13dying each day in America. That number24:15is really tiny today. And that we're24:17losing the memory of the war. And that24:20like lots of graduating high school24:21seniors thought we fought with the24:23Germans against the Russians in the24:24Second World War. I kind of went,24:27I got to do something. So we worked on24:29it for a long time, and one of the24:32things is, what if we could see it in24:34the romantic poet William Blake said you24:35could see the world in a grain of sand.24:37What if we took one town, and we24:40investigated Waterbury, Connecticut? And24:42there weren't enough surviving veterans24:44that you could have given you the range24:45of experiences, European and Pacific24:48theater, in an airplane, in a ship, in a24:51you know, landing at D-Day, all of the24:52different things. And so we just sort of24:54expanded it and collected three other24:56towns of about that size, Mobile,24:58Alabama, and Sacramento, California, and25:00then found a tiny, tiny town by accident25:04called Luverne, Minnesota. And basically25:06said, "Okay, we'll do it with that." And25:08told it from that. And so what happens25:10is is you have both the aerial big maps25:13with arrows and Nazis taking over25:15territories and us reclaiming it. But25:18you also have the intimacy of a town25:20experiencing people going off, doing25:23manufacturing jobs while they're away, a25:25variety of kinds of Americans, and then25:28their experiences across all of the25:30battlefields of the Second World War.25:32You know, I think that there's a25:34presumption that you make a film that25:36it's additive. It's like sort of25:37building a house. And it it is like25:39that. But it's mostly subtractive. You25:42collect a lot of stuff. Every time you25:44see a talking head in any of our films,25:47it's a happy accident. We don't say,25:50"Hey, can you get us from paragraph two25:52to paragraph three on page four of25:53episode six?" Never once.25:56We ask questions, and we collect lots of25:58testimony. And so I live in New26:00Hampshire, and we make maple syrup. It26:02takes 40 gallons of sap to make 1 gallon26:04of maple syrup. And that is a pretty apt26:07analogy. So we're collecting hundreds26:09and hundreds of hours of of still26:12photographs and newsreels and interview26:14stuff and music and all sorts of things26:18and writing a lot more than we can26:20possibly use. And so we're doing a job26:22of subtracting, of of understanding that26:24sometimes less is more. It's an amazing26:27process. And so what happens is if you26:29listen to somebody, you're not just26:31going down what the what they're saying26:33in your list of stuff, that that26:35question seven might have seven A, B, C,26:38D, E. And if you're talking about people26:40who are in their 80s, who are basically26:43turning back into 18 or 19 years old,26:46there's something powerful that does26:49happen. That's why these 18-year-olds26:51could could26:53pursue war at all. They were kids. They26:55were optimistic, and they really thought26:57that if you did well, you'd be rewarded.26:59I mean, they're that innocent.27:02They had no idea about life's accidents.27:07Paul Fussell,27:08who was an eminent scholar of the war,27:11but had been in it.27:12And he was, I think, nervous for the27:15first couple of reels, and wanted to27:17probably be a Shelby Foote, and that27:20screws you up if you're not trying to be27:21yourself. And finally, at the end of the27:23third reel, I was about to pull the27:25plug, and I just turned to him and I27:26said, "You keep saying these kids, how27:28old were they?" And he goes, "They're27:3018." I said, "How old were you?" And he27:32goes, "19." He was an old man. The27:35average27:36uh lifetime on the line in combat27:39of a lieutenant in France in 1944-45 was27:43like 17 days. You were either killed,27:46you were severely wounded, or you went27:48insane. And he had not He'd been on the27:50front line27:51for 6 months and never brushed his27:54teeth, never changed his clothes, never27:55taken a shower, was brought food. There27:57were people 200 yards behind him that27:59were having all those things. He was28:01good at what he did,28:03which is killing other people and28:05avoiding being killed. And he was28:06finally severely wounded and taken off28:09the line. But I finally looked at him28:11and said, "You You saw bad stuff." When28:13we turned back on, and his lips starts28:15to quiver, and his his cheek, and28:18suddenly he's back there at 18 years28:19old, and he is um28:23there. And he puts us there. And we28:26could only use a fraction of the stuff28:27he told us. It was so bad. It was so28:30gruesome. It was so horrible. Once he28:32comes across these kids, the Germans at28:34the end are throwing in little babies,28:36you know, 12- and 13-year-olds. They28:37don't even have time to get a helmet.28:39They don't have any helmets left, and28:40they're wearing these little felt hats,28:42and, you know, they'd been killed.28:45And he had been shot through the head.28:49And the blue blueish red brains [music]28:54of one were coming out his nostrils.28:56They had their eyes open, too.28:59And the other one, his blueish [music]29:01red brain was coming out just from under29:03his cap, and sort of displacing his cap29:07as he wore it.29:09And that really gave me a jolt. We're29:12drawn to war because, unfortunately,29:15this is the worst thing that human29:17beings do, but it's something we always29:19do. It's not our last resort. It's29:21usually our first resort. And it's29:24really important to understand the sort29:26of shared humanity of of the victims and29:29and all of the people, all of the29:31participants in it.29:33>> [music]29:33>> The Vietnam War.29:36America's involvement in Vietnam began29:39in secrecy.29:42It ended 30 years later in failure,29:46witnessed29:46>> [music]29:46>> by the entire world.29:49And you what did you see, my [music]29:51darling?29:52>> It was begun in good faith by decent29:54people out of fateful misunderstandings,29:58American overconfidence, and Cold30:00[music] War miscalculation. I remember30:03as we were finishing our series on the30:07on the World War II called The War in30:09December of of 2006, I looked up at Lynn30:13Novick who is my co-director on The War30:15and said, "We're doing Vietnam next."30:18And we all just had that white face,30:19okay. But yeah, it was an attempt to try30:21to come to terms with it. We don't make30:23films about stuff we know about. It's30:25stuff we want to know about. And even on30:27the subjects that I've gone into like30:29baseball where I thought I knew30:30something, every day of the production30:32was humiliation of what I didn't know.30:34And that's good cuz you don't want me to30:35tell you, you know, "Here's what I know.30:38This is what you should know." Cuz30:39that's the last time I checked homework.30:42We hope it's a gift30:44in a way. And so Vietnam was totally30:46about untangling that. And to Lynn's30:47credit, she was really insistent30:51on us having Vietnamese voices. And I30:53was like, "Yeah, but30:56I wanted to do it modestly because I30:58thought we've got this hugely30:59controversial war. There people still to31:01this day like really opposed." You could31:04argue that the divisions we experience31:07today began in Vietnam and the way the31:09hardening of positions that have taken31:12place and that have so beset us in this31:14current moment. And so I wanted to be31:16gingerly, but she was absolutely right.31:18By talking to South Vietnamese civilians31:20and South Vietnamese military, our31:22allies. By talking to North Vietnamese31:25civilians and North Vietnamese soldiers,31:28our31:29our enemies. And talking to the Viet31:31Cong, the guerrilla movement in the31:32South. And we would add a dimension to31:36this to the variety of Americans that31:37range from men who were this close to31:40getting a Medal of Honor and were highly31:42decorated to Gold Star mothers and31:45deserters and draft dodgers and31:47protesters. So all the varieties of31:50Americans involved in that. But suffice31:52to say for decade after decade,31:55presidential administration after31:57presidential administration, the31:58American people were lied to. Whatever32:00is the right course, we didn't need to32:02do that. We're umpires calling balls and32:04strikes in all of our films,32:06particularly those about war.32:08But we're telling you that we just32:11didn't have the information in which an32:13informed citizenry could have32:16if the government, whatever it is, the32:18Truman administration, the Eisenhower32:20administration, the Kennedy32:21administration, the Johnson32:22administration, the Nixon32:23administration, and the Ford32:24administration that would allow us to32:26perhaps make different decisions than we32:28did, not just at the ballot box, but in32:30our our public opinion. And32:33in a way it was American public opinion32:35changing against the war and more about32:38why the fact that we were lied to than32:40it was what the issues were.32:42That really changed the war and forced32:45us out.32:59When did Trent and Atticus come into the33:01picture for you? Was all this work done33:02when you said beforehand? This is Lynn33:04again. She had watched The Social33:06Network and had come away, that's the33:09David Fincher film about Mark Zuckerberg33:11and the creation of Facebook.33:14And she'd come away33:15not with whether it's a good film or a33:17bad film, but how great the music was.33:19And it was Trent Reznor and Atticus33:21Ross. And so I remember she and I went33:23out to with Sarah Botstein, went out to33:26Hollywood and met with them at a cabana33:28at the Beverly Hills Hotel, showed them33:30like raw footage out of the film and33:32then raw interview stuff and just said,33:35"Would you do this?" And they33:36fortunately had known my stuff and they33:38said, "Yeah, I think so." And then33:40they'd work by themselves to create33:42these musical beds that were so chilling33:45and so33:47amazing. We've we've worked with them a33:49number of other times and adore them.33:50They're amazing amazing artists. They33:52have just some of the most principled33:54set of kind of values about how you33:57proceed and how you in this world of34:00distractions, how you maintain this34:03artistic integrity. They do it with an34:05incredible modesty modesty, but also a34:08ferocity about protecting their art and34:10their process, which kind of, you know,34:13if if we could sort of we felt like we34:15were like that in a little bit, a tiny34:17tiny degree of that, the way we lived34:19remotely and tried to stay all in public34:22television with one foot tentatively in34:24the marketplace and the other out that34:26we we we had had a kind of control and34:29we just felt that there was a um a kind34:31of meeting of the minds there that I34:33that I loved. We also went to the34:34Beatles at Apple Records and said, "We34:37need your songs, you know, we have a34:39hundred and nearly a hundred and thirty34:41needle drops and there's no way you can34:43afford it and and no way you can do it34:45without the Beatles unless the Beatles34:47help you out." And they did. And then34:49had other composers adding stuff. David34:52Shire is someone we've worked with for a34:53long time, has some very eerie stuff,34:55some of which we borrowed and put in The34:57Revolution because you realize34:59whatever's going on in somebody's gut in35:01the middle of warfare has got to be35:03exactly the same emotion. And if you35:05touch that in World War II and you touch35:07that in Vietnam, do you have to play35:09some baroque music to be accurate for35:11The Revolution? No. And there's a few35:13instances where there's some eerie eerie35:16stuff. And that's Dave Shire's um35:19there's a piece he wrote for Vietnam35:21called Arc Light.35:22You're screaming as loud as you can to35:24try to cover up the sound of the35:26incoming bullets.35:28Because when they pass by your ear, you35:30can [music] hear the popping sound. You35:32don't hear the gunshot.35:35But if a .50 caliber just opened up and35:36[music] shooting half inch piece of lead35:38flying at you, and the aircraft goes35:40boom.35:43And it's not necessarily going to hear35:44that instrumentation in the late 17th35:46century 18th century, but it's it's I'm35:49sure the emotions are exactly the same,35:51the fear going into a battle.35:57From a small spark kindled in America,36:01a flame has arisen36:02>> [clears throat]36:03>> not to be extinguished.36:06Without consuming, it winds its progress36:08from nation to nation36:10and conquers by a silent operation. I36:13make those decisions. I'll say, "Let's36:15put in Arc Light." And people go, and36:17they go, "Right." And you it works. Like36:19the film opens, The Revolution opens36:21with a piece of Dave Shire music, which36:23is like as contemporary and36:26gut-wrenching, fearful as you could36:29possibly imagine.36:31>> [music]36:31>> The American Revolution.36:34The Americans have made a discovery or36:36think they have made one36:38that we mean to oppress them.36:41We have made a discovery or think we36:42have made one that they intend to rise36:45in rebellion.36:47Our severity has increased their ill36:50behavior.36:51We know not how to advance, they know36:54not how to retreat. I think the American36:56Revolution was sort of haunting us36:57across many many decades in a way that37:00it needed to be treated, it needed to be37:02understood. We understood that our37:04knowledge was superficial, that most37:06everybody's was kind of bathed in37:09fife and drum treacle and37:11sentimentality.37:12But it's also got some really daunting37:15challenges. One, there no photographs or37:17newsreels. So you've got this immediate37:20barrier that you have to figure it out.37:21And strangely enough, when I was working37:24finishing a film on the Vietnam War37:26where I had an abundance of photographs37:28and and newsreels, it was December of37:312015, Barack Obama still had 13 months37:33to go in his presidency, and I turned to37:36my, you know, co-workers, colleagues,37:38and just said, "You know, I want to do37:40the American Revolution next." And37:41everybody kind of gulped cuz they37:42understood what the stakes were and37:44said, "Okay." I mean, there's certainly37:46a lot of myths that have grown up around37:48the Revolution, you know, all of the37:50stuff about George Washington and37:51cutting down the cherry tree and wooden37:53teeth. There's myths like don't fire37:55till you see the whites of their eyes.37:57Nathan Hale, when he went to his death37:58in New York City in Lower Manhattan,38:01a spy for Washington,38:04you know, part of his sort of spy38:06network, said didn't say, we don't38:08think, "I regret that I have but one38:10life to live for my country." The38:11British officer who observed the hanging38:14said he'd gone with great composure. I38:16think that got added. Nowhere do we38:18mention Betsy Ross because we do not38:20know who made the first flag. There lots38:22of things that are very superficial and38:24don't really matter. The more important38:26things is the complexity and depth of38:28this. This isn't just sort of Englishmen38:30in the new colonies rebelling against38:33the home. It's there's it's a bloody38:35civil war in which there a lot of people38:37who remain loyal. There Native Americans38:39involved. There free and enslaved black38:41people. Women who never get counted in38:43any revolutionary story or besides38:46Abigail Adams are a significant part of38:48this. They keep the resistance going.38:50There lots of players and our38:52revolution's a global war. So it has a38:53complex dynamic that involves, as we38:56say, more than two dozen nations,38:58European as well as Native American. And39:00we phrased it that way because we tend39:02to think of the Native Americans,39:04particularly to our west, as them, all39:06one kind of monolithic thing. There many39:08nations as distinct as France is from39:11Germany or Prussia. Pretty close up with39:13bayonets, with muskets, which are39:15inaccurate. We accept the violence of39:17the Civil War and the violence of the39:1920th century wars that we've been39:21involved in39:22are the big ideas. We just sort of39:24reduce it to just some guys in39:26Philadelphia thinking great thoughts.39:27That's a huge part of it. These are the39:29best thoughts, but they're not in any39:31way diminished by telling the complete39:33story. What starts off as a struggle39:35between British subjects over Indian39:37land and taxes and representation39:39becomes a big argument over some of the39:41noblest aspirations of humankind and39:44everybody hears those. Women hear those.39:46The second you say the word all men are39:48created equal, the word all is the word.39:51Slavery's over at that moment. May take39:53fourscore and nine years. Women's39:56suffrage is going to happen. It may take39:58144 years, but it's going to happen. And40:02these big ideas are incredibly40:04infectious and people are making40:06decisions. Um we think that uh 20,00040:09black Americans fought. 15 for the40:12British who at at various times seemed40:15to offer freedom, cynically offer40:17freedom because their entire world40:18empire is based on the profits made from40:21slave labor in colonies, 13 colonies in40:24the Caribbean. Uh we're the least40:26profitable. Many 5,000 fight for the40:29uh Patriot side. Same with native40:31peoples on the western borders. They40:33tend to side with the British because40:34they're not the colonists who are trying40:36to to um spill over. It's a40:39short-sighted. They're going to lose40:41whatever40:43side they choose. And a lot of people40:45sign declarations of dependence back to40:48the crown. And then when occupying army,40:52as it always does, creates havoc for the40:54populace, the ravaging of farms and40:58stealing, looting, pillaging, raping of41:00women, then it changes and they're going41:02back to the Patriots. So you have a very41:04fluid dynamic and sometimes as much as41:06we look at a big map and see this as a41:09big global41:10it's an intimate decision. What's best41:12for me right now in this place and it41:15may be a different decision than you41:17made 2 months ago or going to make 241:19months from now. And that's important to41:21give them their humanity. And that's the41:23problem. All of our41:25our founding fathers are kind of opaque41:27and mythic and we don't know anything41:28about it. Our job is to try to make them41:31human and dimensional, but then41:33introduce you literally to scores of41:34other people who didn't have their41:36portraits painted, but didn't mean they41:37didn't live, didn't fight, didn't41:39suffer, are important to the story. So41:41you meet a 14-year-old kid John41:43Greenwood from Boston who signs up for41:45the Patriot cause or a 15-year-old, 1541:48years old, you know, Joseph Plumb Martin41:50from Connecticut or a 10-year-old gal41:52from uh Yorktown, Virginia, Betsy Ambler41:55who spends most of her uh41:58time during the revolution as a refugee42:00running away from the British and never42:03being able to go back to her town42:04because it's destroyed in the climactic42:07final battle. It helps if Maya Hawke42:10reads off camera the voice of this. It42:11helps if uh Claire Danes is the is the42:14voice of Abigail Adams and Paul Giamatti42:16is reprising his role as John Adams. It42:19helps if Josh Rowland is is George42:21Washington and uh Jeff Daniels is Thomas42:24Jefferson. Uh it helps if all of the42:26people you meet are the finest actors. I42:28our our cast list I I would say there's42:31no feature film or television series42:33that's ever had a better cast list42:36reading and bringing to life these42:37people who we may have heard of like a42:39George Washington are people we've most42:42definitely not heard of like John42:44Greenwood or Betsy Ambler. George42:45Washington is super complicated. He's42:48almost still unknowable despite all the42:51information you can get about who he is42:53as a person. He probably only as the42:55historian Joe Ellis says in our film42:57lets Martha his wife in, lets maybe43:00Lafayette, maybe Hamilton in. And so43:03there's no pass a G to him and yet he's43:05able to work with Congress and defer to43:08them. He's able to speak to Georgians43:10and to New Hampshireites about why43:12they're not from their separate43:14countries cuz they considered that, but43:17this new thing called Americans we're43:18all one thing. He knew how to inspire43:20men in the dead of night. He knew how to43:22ride out on a battle with great courage43:24and risk his own life. He knew how to43:27pick subordinate talent. He wasn't43:28afraid of people who were super smart to43:30be his, you know, number two and three43:32and four generals. A previous film I'd43:34made on Leonardo da Vinci was premiering43:36at the Rome Film Festival and I was43:38flying back and I was half dozing off on43:40the flight and watching43:43Dune 2 and I heard Josh's voice and I43:46went, "Oh, that's it. It's this utterly43:47American voice."43:49And yet, you know, when I brought He43:51said, "Yes, of course." And we we I43:53brought him in. I said,43:55"You got to be unknowable still. You43:56can't let me in and at the same time you43:58have to let me in." And he got it. He44:00understood. There's a there's an44:02essential kind of distance. He's holding44:04you at arm's length. I am now [music]44:07embarked on a tempestuous ocean44:09from whence perhaps no friendly harbor44:12is to be found.44:14And some of the things have an intimacy44:16to them that despite that allow you to44:19sneak in and get a little sense of who44:22this guy might be. And this guy, George44:24Washington, is for all of our, you know,44:28new kinds of looking at history, the44:30bottom up as well as top down. We don't44:32have a country without him. And44:33historian after historian say this. It's44:35just clearly evident and it's thrilling44:38in a film in which you're championing44:40bottom up, so-called bottom up people,44:42that one of the richest man and if not44:45the richest man in the colonies44:47is the most important person to this.44:49Has there ever been a project that you44:51came to and you're just like, "I don't44:52know how I'm going to do this." I want44:53to hear about imposter syndrome from Ken44:55Burns. I don't feel that imposter44:57syndrome as much now, but everything is45:00a gigantic Mount Everest to climb.45:02And in the early days I did. I just go,45:04"Okay, I you lucked out. You got45:06nominated for Academy Award for Brooklyn45:07Bridge, you know, you know, you're not45:09going to do it." Even when the fourth45:11film on the Statue of Liberty was45:12nominated and went, "Well, that's just a45:14fluke, you know, you just sort of felt45:16that impossibility of each thing you45:18undertook. And I finally realized that I45:20was biting off more than I could chew45:22and then learning how to chew it, which45:24is of course the best way to do it. And45:27I I think all of these things present,45:30you know, starting right now, going45:32backwards, you know, the American45:34Revolution45:35has no pictures and has no newsreels.45:37And so you have to do something that I45:39don't like to do is use reenactments,45:41but we didn't use them to reenact a45:43battle. We used them to collect a45:45critical mass over years and years and45:47years of people doing stuff intimate and45:49impressionistic. You're not seeing45:50faces. You're seeing hands. You're45:51seeing silhouettes. You're seeing the45:53stuff of of war that gives you a chance45:56to sort of put you there that accompany45:59the paintings and the maps and the uh46:01live cinematography of of the now quiet46:03places. You know,46:05with World War II was just doing the46:07bottom up four towns. First we thought46:10one, then four. Every film requires you46:12to sort of abandoned your sense of46:15thing. People think there's a style, but46:17maybe from the center of the room all46:19films look the same, but some have, you46:21know, almost no first-person voices46:24because they're contemporary and we have46:25witnesses. Some have lots of46:28first-person voices and only a handful46:30of of talking heads. Everything is46:32calibrated and recalibrated for whatever46:35the particular difficulty of this Mount46:38Everest is. And it's all at each one and46:40should be. It shouldn't be like, "Oh, I46:42I can do this with our one arm tied46:44behind my back." You you can't. Um you46:47cannot phone anything in. And in fact,46:49the biggest job I wear lots of hats, but46:52the biggest job that I have is trying to46:54be you46:55in the editing room and try to listen46:58inside for the weakest voice that47:00doesn't like something. And both Sarah47:01Botstein, my co-director, and and I on47:04the same day47:06woke up, even though the film was47:08locked, and unlocked the introduction,47:10which is the, you know, the sacred thing47:12that we've spent more time than anything47:14else on and blew it up. Moved stuff47:17around, got rid of some narration, put47:19in a new quote, reframed it, and it was47:22so exhilarating. And what we weren't47:25listening to is that we'd bring it along47:27and people would nod respectfully and47:29they would love it and they'd talk about47:30it, but you realize you didn't love it47:32in the way you did the first time you47:34saw it. And now we're 6 months into just47:37putting up with this. I've been doing47:38this for a long time. You know, I've47:40been making films47:41for more than 50 years, you know, and I47:44think that I know how to do it, but I47:46never say that, right?47:49I always am kind of very cautious to go47:52think that you're a student always.
8,817 words · 1295 lines
