Transcript of Интервью с Жан-Филиппом Хью (Jean-Philippe Hue), лучшим предпринимателем, в которого я инвестировал
Венчур По Понятиям | Алмас Абулхаиров
0:01so yeah i think we are ready let me0:03start the presentation if you don't mind0:06uh let's go0:09where is the drone she live0:12so here's their presentation well0:16i'm still not sure in which language to0:19speak right now to the audience when i'm0:21not talking to you but usually we do the0:23main uh0:24main english0:27common common english language0:29so we can speak with slow english0:32so with slow english0:34yeah0:35so0:38this is john philip0:40the founder of company called lucky0:43crash it was formerly lower next door we0:46met together uh in paris in 20180:50somewhere in october i suppose0:52uh and our funky beta was one of the0:55investors to the company and around four0:58year three and a half years later we1:01sold the company we did the multiple1:03exits and john philippe became1:06became a millionaire and i just remember1:09uh walking down the streets of paris1:11when we arrived to meet with john1:12philippe and i i remember this uh i1:16showed it to you uh1:18before uh let me catch up for all of the1:21kazakh speaking people uh we don't have1:23the sound1:24and but but hold on a second1:35it's a great ad1:37yeah1:39so that's why we speak bonjouri1:44yeah so that that's the uh first photo1:47of us1:48on the light1:50on the left it's obviously you know it1:52who is it uh on the right it's uh victor1:54zachary my friend and partner at san1:56cumbata and the three above are the1:59founders of uh lower next door uh2:02and later lucky crush they were very2:05poor guys from the street and now they2:07made it to the top2:09yeah2:10and we saw that2:12sorry2:14yeah i said we were just students2:17yeah and yeah they were just students2:19and now they are2:27so that's one of the first photos uh2:29that i made where uh jordan i think he2:32was showing the prototype2:34[Music]2:36yes and the quick uh2:38that's one of the thesis um and uh2:41there's a chat by the way uh this2:43telegram channel is attached to a2:44telegram chat where i see a real-time2:47feedback that people have let me2:49let me read that later but uh the the2:53translation of that phrase is jerking2:55off every day is [ __ ] good2:59uh3:00so that's what the investment phase is3:03uh when we discussed whether to invest3:06or not but what that was the general of3:08course it was more about you but that3:10was general phases here's the screenshot3:13i thought this is at least not on the3:14nda because it was the 2018 notes um3:20this is what you told me uh and you3:23achieved before3:24so yeah3:28it was the first prototype of the3:29product and as you see and i want to3:32emphasize to our early stage startup3:35fellow viewers3:37that uh3:38that's the example of how to do things3:41you need to3:42somehow attract new users somehow to3:45make them pay that's all that really3:47matters and not all of this so [ __ ]3:50visionary ideas uh the clocky stick3:53[ __ ] and so on okay here they3:56produce pictures just uh yeah just3:58getting customers as soon as possible4:00yeah with the yeah4:02feature and that's it4:05we so uh4:08guys made the prototype and launched it4:11in march 2018 and they run it with like4:15just uh 4 000 eur in advertisement and4:18that's the turnover that was generated4:21they generated 52 000 euro in the4:24turnover that showed that people want to4:27pay people have good conversion rate4:29people have good return customer rate4:31and and there was a margin4:34so uh4:35after payouts and advertisement cost it4:37was the ten thousand left out of fifty4:40two thousand euro and that was4:42immediately the signal that [ __ ] works4:44there's some math and so on and what's4:48what i liked is uh number one4:51the realistic timelines and number two4:53the slide i i forgot but4:55i forgot uh i couldn't find before this4:58call however let me search through the5:01to the history of chat with you john5:03philip5:04oh oh oh5:06i found it hold on a second let me uh5:09let me insert it in the presentation in5:11real time5:12i think i need to write an article about5:15you about this case let me upload this5:18so i'm uploading right now5:20uh let it let it complete the download5:22hold on second ah share there's a share5:24button5:25so do you remember me asking a lot of5:27questions about this5:30so5:31an example for everyone5:34guys were very realistic and they had5:37re-hypothesis on marketing as you see by5:39the way that do you see my mouse i i5:42think you don't see on the left top5:44there's acquisition cost per client5:46hypothesis and the theory was it it5:49could be 10 it could be 50 or it could5:51be 100 so 10 times difference so guys5:54calculated the outcomes in all of the5:56three scenarios and all of the three5:58scenarios were realistic that showed6:01their flexibility of mind and6:03preparedness of the team for6:05this 10x scale of the cost that what6:08that's the lesson that everyone should6:11uh learn from6:13and i learned it from eugene phillips6:15and we learned from each other and why6:18and without raising funds we could make6:21money but by riding by raising funds we6:24could earn money faster and more money6:26so it was to be both reassuring and6:29showing the possibility of the thing to6:32investors and i think that's one of the6:34most important things when you try to6:36convince investors6:38yeah exactly but but um6:42when i6:43i don't like the word convince the6:45investor i like the word first of all6:48you convinced yourself that this [ __ ]6:50might work6:51sure sure that was6:54for you yeah6:55uh you didn't have to convince me i just6:58uh6:59i just saw the logic and i saw that you7:01believe in it7:02that was the what was7:04the important thing and you see that7:08yeah7:10by the way everyone you see7:11jean-philippe is now not wearing a shirt7:13because he now doesn't give a [ __ ]7:16the air conditioning is broken and if i7:19put a shirt i will be feeling like7:20health7:22yeah yeah poor john philip7:24and by the way that's the another q a i7:27forgot that slides i i prepared the list7:30let me write it down so jean philippe7:32now uh as i introduced you to uh to7:35people and we are i think recording this7:38uh7:39so7:39we wanted to learn a little bit about7:42you and hear the story of from your part7:44i prepared uh my questions to7:48to to jp7:50so the first one while i will be7:52continuing the list7:54would you please tell about a little bit7:56about the background before uh lower7:58next door before how we met i remember8:01you also worked as an accountant uh so8:04that's how you8:05no no i never was in the car because8:07this is really undisciplined and8:09actually reporting8:10yeah you you thought i was the content8:12when you received the first uh yeah8:15reports that i talked that i never i8:17never been an accountant i just do a8:19little uh moocs you know little courses8:22online to learn how to do very basic pnl8:25balance and cash flow statements not8:27even balance sheets just move to pnl and8:29cash for statements8:31you know very big lines the the codes8:34and so on that the contents put8:36and no i just learned how to do that in8:39like two or three weeks not even and uh8:42that's how we're about to do that today8:44i would still find how to read the8:46balance sheet a financial balance sheet8:48made by an accountant with the terms of8:50the accountants you know i was just8:52identifying a viable cost fixed cost and8:55stuff like that it was really like more8:57a management dashboard rather than8:59financial accounting so we were9:01comparing both with my accountant to see9:03that we were aligned and that there9:04wasn't many mistakes in my profit9:06estimations but9:09it wasn't you know official accounting9:14but not my background9:16actually it was a business school and at9:18the beginning i had a pretty bad grade9:21and you know i was partying a lot and i9:24didn't realize that i had to9:26to do something one day and um so that's9:29how i finished in in the track9:31uh where the fourth year of my school i9:35ended in the entrepreneurship track9:36which is where you go when you don't9:38know what you want to do9:39because nobody hires entrepreneurs or9:42ceos when you go out from school it's9:44just like you can beat up everything but9:46you specialize in nothing9:49and uh the only way for me to to make it9:52you know um9:53profitable making it valuable to make it9:55recognized by people eventually to try9:58to make you know recognize10:00it was to create start a project and to10:03bring it as far as possible no matter10:05where it would stop you know maybe try10:08to to to get some users try to raise10:10funds try something10:13and um that's that's uh how i created10:16linguining10:17which was a language10:20learning platform for schools and10:21universities10:23uh you can google it if you want to to10:25to find a10:26bit about it10:27the link link10:28lingual link right10:30yeah linguining l-i-n-g10:33w-e and link i-n-k and it's really an10:37e-learning platform for10:39the universe it was targeting a new10:42problem something that that wasn't10:44addressed yet10:45the the solutions on the market because10:48it was based on the life practice with10:49native speakers this way when you start10:51to learn a language at school or10:52university you were able to practice it10:55for real with native speakers10:56uh and you were rated on that so it was10:59part of your final grade at the end of11:01the year uh it was really a great in11:03your new global grade by language11:05teacher so it was really11:07a really different thing and finally we11:10we got many partnerships with many11:12schools and universities in several11:14countries11:15my school even about a part of the11:18company who11:20which allowed me to refund my student11:22loan in one year so it was great because11:25i refunded my student loan before i11:27finish the school and that's how i was11:29able to continue to be an entrepreneur11:31because otherwise i should have found a11:34job and to refund alone every month so11:38we did that unfortunately six months11:40later the company11:42went to bankruptcy because schools and11:45universities wanted two three four years11:47of testing11:48before they pay so investors were new11:51we're not keen to to put money in it we11:54run we run out of cash and we we had11:57like one more theft uh you know in the12:00rental of the apartment with my two12:02co-founders on this project to find a12:05way to make money or everything was12:08topping we all had fire job so12:11i i was just my cto because for a little12:14project i'm not sure we can call that12:16the situ as a developer12:18um we stayed together designer of12:20linguine left because he didn't want to12:23do in the direction where we wanted to12:25go because the direction in which we12:27wanted to go was the big internet cash12:30machine and so that's how we went into12:33gaming things into12:36adult uh entertainment things and things12:38like that12:39because12:41there are markets where you can um build12:44you can build new features you can12:46experiment very fast it's not like when12:48you have to convince you know in b2b you12:50have to convince big organizations12:53because you probably get feedback maybe12:55weeks after when when you iterate on a12:57b2c your internet product at the end of13:00the afternoon you know if it was [ __ ] or13:02not so so because your traffic is not13:04conveying the same it's much more13:06analytical it's much more quantitative13:09so that's what we hope we liked so the13:12the gaming place was too expensive13:15uh13:16to to be operating seriously13:19like social bedding and really13:22good ideas to innovate uh in the in the13:24gambling things13:25the goal was to either in gambling as13:27well the goal was to create solutions13:29that are not only the segments of the13:32people who already use the solutions on13:34the market but to try to make these13:36things up more mainstream and to enlarge13:38the segments uh to provide authentic13:41experiences experiences and you know um13:44a woman could uh could afford for13:46instance because you know in gambling13:48for instance most users are men13:50try to just enlarge the segment and the13:53gaming instance was too expensive so uh13:56how we we said okay we will go in adults13:59we checked what has happened in the14:01adult market we realized that everything14:04related to movies and videos was going14:06down there was no more revenue coming14:09from it all the revenues were blowing14:12were getting down14:14but the industry was still still growing14:16and why it was due to life due to life14:19coming actually14:21uh so we started to get interested in14:23about all the solutions from the market14:25really to learning live chats at the14:27chats and we realized that it was still14:30something14:31very segmented because it was not14:34authentic you have you had like virtual14:36pip shows from you know girls studios uh14:40you had like suppliers and customers it14:42was like a marketplace you were chatting14:44with four thousand people in a room and14:46then uh the the camera watching a14:49private i mean there is nothing14:52it's very far from uh the little kinky14:55chat experience you can have with your14:56lover or friend or your girlfriend and14:59that was the goal was to to go deeper15:01into that so that's why we wanted to15:04create a new adult chat site15:06at a chat experience that was based on15:09interactivity privacy and intimity15:12intimacy15:13uh15:14and authenticity so it's another chat15:18app that would attract real girls i mean15:21girls who could be15:22because15:23we are talking about a kid that is15:25targeting a straight mails so that's why15:28uh it's something that is important to15:30consider that the them is really focused15:32on straight maze on market15:34um15:36do you mind if i comment on that for our15:39audience15:40what uh15:42what everyone should uh15:44pay attention to is that jean-philippe15:47and tim uh never uh15:51thought in terms of15:53what can we do15:55they thought in in terms of where15:59what should we do and where is the16:01market opportunity and the money and the16:04potential for the commercially good16:06product where the money flows16:08more than half and i say very politely16:11more than half of startups i see and16:14that are still submitting me pitch decks16:17they do like16:19things that i think that are16:21commercially unviable16:23and and i asked now everyone16:25why man you are very smart talented you16:28can technically build anything the16:30question is why do you chose to make16:32this product and the answer is usually16:36because i could16:37not because there's money because he can16:39i don't know because that was the one16:41you know first idea16:43uh so yes16:45let's learn together and um do the16:48products that we believe where the money16:50is and we research where is the ma where16:52does the money go to yeah thank you16:54continue man16:55yeah yeah16:57the product that we did is that because16:59you know lucky crunch was a random video17:02chat site it was like chat but with a17:04business model and we just realized that17:07there were many random video chat sites17:09you know chat sites video chat sites17:11where people are randomly paired up17:13together uh google chat chat rounder17:16there are several17:18thousands tens of millions of guys every17:21month who are17:22made place uh straight males who are17:25clicking hitting next uh all day long to17:28try matching with a straight female17:30partner but they don't exist on the17:32sides because it doesn't fit the spin17:34doesn't fit with the the demandings of17:37girls at all i mean it's completely safe17:38age and guys are really well educated by17:41that17:42and um17:44and yeah so we started from where the17:46market is where demand is and so that's17:48how we created a chat with it like site17:51uh but adding a business model on it to17:54answer the need so for instance the only17:57difference is that at the beginning you17:59were saying whether you are18:01a male a man or a woman18:04and whether you want to match with men18:06or women or both18:08and the only difference is that it's18:11free for female users because we know18:14that the the the friction the problem on18:16the sides is uh they are not18:19female users so first preformed female18:21users certain um we18:24gamified the thing so girls earn points18:27while they are chatting so every time18:29you are matched with someone which is18:31almost all the time because you hit next18:32or if your partner he takes your match18:34with someone else so you earn points all18:37the time and then18:39girls could18:40convert their points into cash and gifts18:43so that's how we managed to have 5018:45of girls on the side at any time and it18:48was it became the most exciting chat18:51experience on the web which allowed us18:53to match chart for at the main site so18:57when you were a made user you just had18:59to uh you just had19:01like 30 seconds to one minute of free19:03trial then you had to clean a car to19:06keep chatting then you had 30 minutes 3019:08seconds to one minute of free trial19:10again as a new member and then you have19:13to buy credits19:14the funeral i've just described is very19:16important and you should19:18you should use it for our products so19:20you you you want to make people register19:23buy credits and sign anything at once19:26you really want to give them value ask19:27them a little bit give them value again19:30give them a little thing and etc so and19:33finally guys were paying credits like19:35300 minutes 400 minutes to create time19:39to enjoy the the the chat experience so19:42they could say how much was that in your19:44in money19:45the 200 500 minutes how much in money19:48it's basically it's very simple we never19:50we we never made things difficult we we19:54it was like one dollar per minute19:56because uh one dollar per minute yeah19:59because it's it's simply because it was20:01a new new adult experience oh20:04yeah it's it wasn't that adult chat20:06experience because20:08furthermore then additionally to of20:10being just a new one video chat site uh20:14which was fixing the balance between20:16males and uh and men and women20:19additionally to that we were not20:21proceeding with any sensor so um it was20:25a site reserved for adult it was not20:27branded20:28as an adult site as a porn site and it's20:30very important it's very important20:32people feel comfortable with that they20:34are the ones who decide to make the chat20:38um20:40and yeah it was another site just20:41because it was reserved uh for for your20:43users and we were not proceeding with20:45any sensor but we had content principles20:48so20:49why it was more comfortable21:02it is21:09can anyone tell you in chat uh did john21:11phillip freeze or is it me21:28right you froze out for sure21:31yeah21:32yes now we hear you now you're back21:34again now it's better yeah okay and the21:36quality is better tell me if it's21:38plugging21:39if it's lagging i will change my network21:40so just let me know21:42okay okay so i was telling that yeah21:46yeah so i was telling that additionally21:48to be a new random video chat fixing the21:51gender balance thing it was a chat site21:54result for adults because it was not21:55censored but they were21:58new principles that to me should be the22:00principles that we see in the social22:02networks and the apps22:03which is not22:05not22:06banning nudity and and so on because you22:09know for instance even on skype you you22:11can't have dirty messages with your22:13girlfriend technically it's probably the22:15independent condition which is totally22:17totally weird because it's a private22:18context22:20so we had rules we had constant rules22:22instead22:23so for instance guys and girls were22:26banned if they were appearing half-naked22:28or you know doing things dirty22:31if22:32when they matched with a new partner so22:35in opposite to chatroulet and omega22:37lanson you couldn't be surprised by22:39judic or you know or boobs or anything22:42just like in real life you had to make22:43sure that the person wanted the same22:45thing that you were both aligned so that22:47uh something that it can happen and uh22:50this had made a huge difference it was a22:54very22:54important understanding um because it22:57allowed us to access resources that22:59normally agile chat sites can't uh can23:01have because we were not branded as23:03adults there was a very trendy consent23:06rule23:07but it was still very attractive because23:09people were doing adult things so it was23:11really the perfect gray zone that23:13allowed us to access you know bank23:15accounts payment payment processors uh23:18that were not only for a dirty at your23:21businesses when you have23:23a real pawn site your life is really23:25difficult whereas when you try to do23:27something like that where users decide23:29to make it on in private but you are not23:31upon company or product it makes your23:34life 100 times easier and this23:36understanding was one of the most23:38important of our adventure23:41uh so i just skipped the part i just23:43skipped the part about the lola next23:45door and so on but lucky crush was the23:47fourth pivot uh because we started from23:50wanted to create a new adult chat23:52experience23:53based on privacy and intimacy uh23:56attracting real girls i mean girls who23:58could be my sister my mother my23:59girlfriend my friends and to me to me24:02would be a success the day where my24:04friends uh my female friends will ask me24:07oh how can i register and so on and it24:08worked and uh so we started with a24:11sexting app um was just a little mvp24:15it was just a little page on which you24:17could buy tickets for 20 minutes24:20text and video and24:22photo chats on kink on kick messenger24:26imagine that at the beginning we wanted24:28to create like a whatsapp but with a24:31token a credit system where some people24:33can buy credits to chat and some people24:36can earn credits and convert these24:37credits into uh cash and gift24:40and it was like the first plan was like24:42okay six months to one year development24:44and so on and for the first time i24:45talked with an experienced product owner24:48who told me24:49in the product you want to create 9524:51percent already exist on the market the24:54chat apps the video chat apps the fact24:56of being able to send photos messages24:59why would you spend 95 percent of your25:01time and resources to build something25:02that already exists just create the25:05[ __ ] little page where people will25:08buy tickets and it will just launch a25:10counter a 20 minutes counter and at the25:12end of the 20 minutes it sends a sms uh25:16to to both phones of the25:18guys who pays and the girls who provide25:20the sexy chat and that's it and and the25:23mvp was just a page where you buy25:25tickets and it tells you when it starts25:27it tells you when it stops and during25:29both notifications the the the the25:32person who was selling sexy chats was uh25:35just you know uh chatting on kick and uh25:37when both were receiving the sms the the25:40person who was selling chats was saying25:42oh you you see we received the sms if25:44you want to continue just buy another25:46ticket so we focused our resources and25:49time on the five percent25:52features that were not on kick messenger25:54or whatsapp or telegram that was the25:56paid part actually and that was that was25:59the most important move that we did26:01because26:02with the money we had the experience we26:04had and so on if we had to build a new26:06whatsapp and just add these little paid26:08features i think we would have run out26:09of cash uh we would have26:11we would have had something you know26:14you know something26:16you were talking about iteration number26:18two right26:19that was it number two26:21that's the first one the iteration26:23number two26:25yeah the number two was just the same26:27but with snapchat because we said okay26:29it converts very badly i had to pretend26:32to be a girl on on classified eight26:35sides at sites to to to to bring guys26:38and to prove advanced that there is a26:40market but we still don't know how we26:41will uh acquire it26:43and do the conversion so we said okay26:45maybe if we use26:46an app which is more used in europe like26:48snapchat it will work better and also on26:52snapchat you have the stories so uh26:54people who sell sexy chats uh26:57can use stories as social proof like27:00okay i'm really exist this is what i ate27:02for breakfast this is what i do today27:04there is a social proof whereas on the27:06first site you just had pictures and you27:08had to buy something to have to have the27:11kick user name of the person and start27:12chatting so it was almost no converting27:15it was converting because we were27:16literally chatting with the guys on27:19crisp the little chatbots27:21who are coming on the on the side to27:22convince them to buy and it's totally27:24not scalable with a snapchat it worked27:27much more27:28that's when we met almas because we27:30wanted to scale this up with um you know27:33um27:34we wanted to raise funds to be able to27:36scale up our media buying uh our traffic27:38acquisition27:40and uh it was indeed working much better27:43uh because people knew snapchat better27:45because there was the story that was27:48kind of social proof and also kind of27:50teasing it that's when we understood27:53that it was important to provide value27:55before we ask people to pay28:09uh so yes i was saying that the the28:11version with snapchat was working best28:13uh that's when we discovered that28:15providing customers with value before28:18asking them to pay is super important28:21the more the market is competitive28:24the more you have to provide value28:26before uh before you ask to pay the the28:28the people who think that their solution28:31is so great that they don't have to give28:33a free trial or they give a shitty free28:35trial that is not valued for anyone28:38they just keep stuck28:39because you have to find a way to28:41deliver the most value you can before28:42you ask people to pay so it worked very28:45much better with um with the snapchat28:48thing then we said okay now we raised28:50funds and uh we want to be owner of our28:53solutions it's enough of dirty mvps28:56using external apps and we did we28:58finally did28:59a web app which was a copycat of29:02whatsapp but with the payment and credit29:04system being able to buy credits convert29:07credits into cash and gifts and so on29:09and it was a huge fail but maybe the29:13worst one29:14uh because29:15it was uh29:17nobody knew this web app you know29:18because when it's whatsapp snapchat and29:20so on you you know what it is you you29:22say maybe there are real people behind29:24when you arrive on lulanex door it looks29:26like a29:28messaging app but you don't even know29:30what it is you just see profile pictures29:32you say okay they must be fake29:34uh it was a it was a time file whereas29:37it was the product who took us the most29:40resources29:41and the problem here is that because we29:43raised fans we said okay we will put all29:45the features instead instead of29:47iterating as we were doing before29:49because we didn't have the resources we29:51decided to build all the features we had29:54in our vision we decided to to to to to29:57build the final the final version of our29:59product and it was the biggest mistake30:02actually uh because30:04because when you do several features at30:05once without testing them one by one you30:08don't know where the problem comes from30:10so30:11is it this features this feature this30:12feature is it the global branding that's30:14why you always need to test one thing30:16after another because that's the only30:18way to find which one is the problem in30:20the equation30:21and here we didn't even know what didn't30:23work we were pretty sure that it was the30:25fact that nobody knew what was this30:27messaging app which was even a site30:30actually not even an app because you30:32can't have adult app in the stores yeah30:36so we understood there that the most30:39important30:40was to provide value to people30:43to people before they pay30:46so we30:47we took our ego a bit down uh compared30:50with this last version and we said okay30:52we have to think things differently we30:55want people to arrive on the site where30:58they click on one button and when they30:59click on a button we want them to be31:01matched with a sexy partner we don't31:03want them to choose we don't want them31:04to register we don't want them to pay31:07and that's how31:08in parallel we were analyzing the things31:11like uh31:12omega chat roulette and these kinds of31:14uh random video chat sites31:18can i sum it up if you allow me because31:20i have eight other questions31:22uh yeah yeah sure yeah so so the thing31:25is uh the first quarter31:28the first two iteration iterations of31:31the product where the key point to31:33understand that there's there can be a31:35marketplace and there's a supply and31:37demand on the market and that people can31:39pay hundreds of dollars per session31:42in order to do the job31:45then they added on top another validated31:49uh concept that if you provide something31:52some free credits in advance31:54for something but so that the experience31:56can be already uh achieved so that's32:00also a key point to the conversion and32:02the happiness and success and32:04and uh consecutive uh repetitive um32:09repetitive payments32:11now uh that was the key value point32:14then there was a whatsapp messenger32:16iteration and it felt uh for for many32:19reasons however the number four the32:22latest iteration it was based upon the32:25initial things i told about but with the32:28improvement on removing the choice32:31removing the hassle just push the button32:33uh and the key idea about supplying32:36chain works about free credit works and32:39they improve the interface and32:40afterwards that growth and i will have a32:44question about the growth later but32:47first32:48our our audience wants to learn quickly32:51about how many founders you had and how32:54did you meet historically because that's32:56the very painful topic early on33:00yeah uh the33:02i always talked from the principle that33:04i had to um partner with people based on33:07the needs on the rational needs rather33:09than the uh the affinities the you know33:12the familiarities the you know yeah uh i33:14always i saw many entrepreneurs around33:16me who just partnered with friends33:18uh our family and they started like okay33:21we are two business developers we33:23already have only 50 each and now we33:26have to find all the other skills and to33:28me it it doesn't work and also it's33:30important to not have um you know33:33feeling things emotional things with the33:34people you work with at the beginning at33:36least so i found uh jordan the first33:39developer for the first project that i i33:41had at school on in on a facebook group33:44that was made33:45for um for students from an engineering33:48school and that's where they were33:50finding you know job classified ads33:52basically33:54so i went there and i said okay33:57i need to i have an ide and i i want to34:00find a developer and i offer 50 and so34:03on34:04i started to be insulted by everybody34:07because uh you can't come and say okay i34:09have an id and it's so valued that you34:11only you can have a 50 percent34:14normally you have to at least have34:16proved something like you sold something34:18like just like investors you have to34:20prove that you sold something even if34:22it's just a newsletter or it doesn't34:24matter but you can say okay i have an34:26idea and you have 50 of it it's super34:29badly perceived by most of people34:31investors developers any partners34:34so on facebook group for the first one34:36the designer34:37uh the designer the designer for the for34:40the still the school project uh also in34:43a designer group on facebook34:46and but this time we had already sold34:48things so i already provided a business34:50model like okay i sold that uh this is34:53the profit this is what we can do do you34:54want 30 of the company so that's how you34:57should always approach people if you can34:59say if you can offer a formula just35:01don't approach people35:03um35:04so then that was for for for first and35:06company and for the adult company the so35:10my first co-founder was the developer of35:13the first one35:14then we found a designer again because35:17it's important to have35:18when you have a digital product you just35:20need one developer one designer and35:22someone to sell it35:24someone who know how to do b2b if it's a35:26solution if it's a mvp that you will35:28sell to companies and so on and someone35:30who know how to do traffic acquisition35:32uh and seo uh if35:34it's a b2c uh digital products35:37uh so that's why uh we i also find this35:41second designer35:43for this for the company on a facebook35:45group35:46and then we were in an incubator in a35:48famous tomato in35:52there was a trend for sex tech and so on35:55three or four years ago before the35:56meteor things and sound35:58and then we partnered with the fourth36:00person the designer left at this moment36:02and we partnered with a fourth person um36:06who was one of my business angels on the36:08first round uh so this guy had like36:12he's the kind of guy who made the36:14millions in36:16what yeah36:17he's this kind of guy36:19yeah he's this kind of guy who made36:21millions in dropshipping and36:22affiliations36:23and uh that's the guy who knew how to36:26acquire huge huge quantities of traffic36:29uh from day one and how to make it36:31profitable uh by the way if tomorrow you36:34you have an idea for a digital product36:36in b2c and that you need traffic36:38acquisition um always partner with36:41someone who is a former drop shipper36:44yeah yeah always faber always partner36:46with either fabrics or a drop shipper or36:49a former affiliate guy you know36:51but don't do it with someone who is just36:54doing blogging and uh you know true or36:56three little things that36:57that are not really quantitative and36:59effective uh someone with experience is37:02really the key someone37:03with experience in the traffic37:05acquisition but someone who really lived37:07from it and not with pennies you know so37:09it's really really important37:11and that's pretty it and from that37:13moment did you play37:15did you play co-founder sally before the37:17investment37:19no always until fabrice always37:22uh37:23always shares and then thanks to uh the37:27effective the fabrics traffic37:28acquisition we were able to to give37:30salaries and so on37:32and uh so we became a real company and37:36from that moment uh37:38there is a jordan the developer who were37:41lacking of experience and skills to37:44scale up the company we were receiving37:45tens of attacks every week37:48we had scale-up issues i mean uh html37:50page was not enough to to i mean we37:52needed a a huge infrastructure at the37:55end37:56because we had like three million we37:57ended with three million users per month38:01and38:03and that's how we started to recruit a38:05new cto but we provided a salary we38:07provided stock options we we use um uh38:10how you call that a head hunter i don't38:13know you know the companies who find38:14people for you skip people for you uh38:16without38:18yeah the recruiters38:20yeah yeah our recruiters so we use a38:22recruiter for the new cto the new city38:25said okay now i need a second developer38:27with me a senior one and so on so we38:29also use used a recruiter so you can see38:32how we switched from me myself and i on38:35facebook groups to try to convince38:37people38:38first with the bad way and then with a38:39better way because i had sold little38:41things and proved the business model a38:43little profitability formula even if38:45historical i had done something to the38:48final process of using work routers and38:51uh you know not spending too much and38:53too much time in recruitment38:54[Music]38:56and38:57outsource it because um i mean38:59recruiters know how to evaluate people39:01better than we were able to do and so on39:03so so you39:05you do much less mistakes when you when39:07you can afford these services than when39:08you do it by yourself yeah you do i also39:10sometimes do mistakes here39:12special chat so yeah it's39:14it's39:17unavoidable thing39:19in the process39:20um39:22[Music]39:24how did you how did you how did we find39:27each other39:28uh39:29you can share shortly your story on your39:32site i will tell mine um and did we39:34close deal faster where was the process39:37with us uh you know slow or fast i know39:39what was i39:41personally pain in the ass as an39:43investor in your company and so on39:46on my side uh39:48i was in there some in the vc chart in39:50telegram and someone told short things39:53about hey i know founder i cannot invest39:56in him because he is from the other39:57industry however he has some traction40:00and he's a40:01funny guy40:02and randomly i was drinking coffee and40:06like having my lunch and the chat is40:09going up very fast but40:11at that day40:13i40:14i noticed in that particular time post40:16about it i followed up and he connected40:19me with you the victor do you remember40:21victor osika40:23was the name of the guy by the way40:25victor hello how are you thank you for40:27uh bringing me uh40:30jean-philippe40:31yeah what's on your app i i remember you40:34doing like uh email newsletter and40:36spamming to all of the investors in some40:39database40:41yeah yeah actually that's the process40:43that and some spam works on the internet40:46still40:48yeah it's something that would be harder40:50and harder to do now due to the40:52the receiving rules uh the email40:54receiving rules of the different uh40:56internet providers and email service40:58providers because now they are filtering41:00spams too much cold emailing is almost41:02impossible now41:03without developing i mean all these kind41:05of things41:06but uh yes what we did actually first we41:08tried to come to to contact you know um41:12uh traditional investors so you contact41:14one five ten twenty41:16and you realize that most of them they41:18don't want to invest in adult because41:20it's uh41:21you know they are funded by insurance41:23companies by banks and so on actually41:26they're all partner41:28they are all partnering with people who41:29also partner with people who also41:31partner with people and there is always41:33someone in the network who doesn't work41:35who doesn't want to work with agents or41:37gambling and so on so41:39you you can't use traditional investors41:41but we knew that we said okay over41:44seven billion people on earth there41:46should be someone with money who could41:48who would like to make the profits that41:50we are making because i mean we were we41:52were doing41:53the the profitability formula was41:55amazing and we just needed funds to go41:58faster41:59and42:00the so we said okay the only thing we42:02have to do is to contact maybe 10 00042:05investors42:06to um to find one who will be interested42:10but how you find 10 000 investors so42:13what we did42:14is that we we42:16we found a directory of investors online42:19we scrapped it uh by the way i realized42:21that my one of my best friend was42:23working in this company like three42:26months later and i was telling him oh42:28you know i found stupid guys on internet42:30i was able to scrub their site and he42:31told me you know that's where i work and42:33i'm the financial director of this42:35company42:37we ended the day together with their42:39team and i was explaining how i did so42:41that they can secure the system42:43they were in amsterdam but i won't name42:45them because it's not fair42:48but we we we scrapped the full directory42:52in a few minutes so we had all the42:54linkedin42:55the linkedin the linkedin links of tens42:58of thousands of investors43:00then we use a system like rocket reach43:02to transform the you the you know the43:04linkedin urls in emails so we use a43:07system that will find i don't know how43:09it works but they find the personal43:10image the corporate emails the phone43:12numbers of people based on the on the43:14linkedin urls43:15so our files became a list of emails of43:19ten tens of thousands of emails43:22and then what we did is that we set up a43:23campaign an email campaign to these43:25emails what is really important when you43:28contact investors from scratch43:31you need to have a subject which is43:33funny which is entertaining because it43:36can be dead for and it has to be funny43:39so so i remember the subject was are you43:41an audi investor and and uh i mean when43:44you receive that43:46you open the email and that's why almost43:4850 percent of the people were opening43:49the image which is not your investor43:53are you not out what was the subject43:56come again no43:58are you a naughty investor44:01ah you're not invest44:05so you are not investor almost friendly44:07because you were answered44:12so uh that way so we had44:14we had a great we tested many several44:17things because it's important that you44:19test things you you shouldn't think that44:21you have a good subject id you we tried44:24by batches on little batches we tried44:26like five six seven from the most44:28traditional subjects to the most daring44:31ones and the most daring one worked44:33uh44:34we received some insults uh many insults44:37by the way because we were offering to44:38invest in a sex chat app to44:42investors who were made sometimes in44:44very traditional fields so they were44:46very angry of receiving our emails but44:48we also received encouragement and44:50people who say oh that's so funny that44:52i'm partnering i'm in a vc where you44:55know i don't have the right to invest in44:56adult but good luck guys it's great and44:59so on and and we45:01and finally over the tens thousands of45:04emails we shoot we showed it45:05automatically45:07um we had like45:09between seven and ten uh45:11people coming back and say okay i want45:13to invest and the advantage of this45:15technique rather than when you go and45:17see an investor every morning for45:19breakfast or a conference and so on by45:21doing so many people at once you create45:24an immediate competition immediately in45:27one week we had seven people from all45:28over the world there was a movie45:30producer in hollywood there were a45:31chinese trader there was an uh a person45:34in holland i don't remember what they45:36were doing45:37there was the friend of hamas45:40who introduced us to almas instead of45:42investing himself45:44but the fact is that they were there was45:45an immediate competition and that's very45:47important because45:49as an entrepreneur it's you know it can45:51be frustrating uh i mean because the45:53bargaining power can be on the side of45:55the of the investor if you are in a45:57market uh where there is no demand for45:59investments like agents but here we46:01managed to have competition so we were46:03able to really um you know face demand46:06an offer and to have46:07something a good deal46:09um46:12i i i was telling that it's important to46:15have a subject attractive very short46:17email five lines five sentences maximum46:21and uh something really like we do that46:23it earns that46:25we could go there if you invested would46:27you want to be in46:29literally no longer and no other46:32sentences that what i've just said and46:34all over all our tests that's the one46:36that worked the best46:38way we chose you we we chose you because46:40they were first a big personal fit46:42because uh you were able to to do fast46:46because you remember that we had a time46:49matter we really wanted to to yeah to go46:51fast because we invested the last46:53savings46:54uh into the traffic acquisition and once46:57you start traffic acquisition you only46:58want to scale up you don't want to scale47:00down because otherwise you know it's uh47:02creating trouble in your matrix and so47:04on so uh we wanted to go fast so almas47:08and and vancouver were able to to to47:12to offer a pretty exotic process we use47:14a kind of stock option process so that47:17they can release the cash in the week uh47:19so everything was so smooth that we only47:21had to care about business and that's47:23how that's why we definitely i mean i i47:26think that after our first meeting at47:28mass we knew that we were about to work47:29together uh because i always47:33when he answered my email he told me47:35okay in two weeks we are in a hotel in47:37paris you come we spend the day together47:39and we see what we do at the end of the47:40day if anyone else go to paris did47:43anyone else go to parade to visit here47:45no no nobody and almas was the one who47:48was rushing things and we needed we47:51needed an investor uh rushing things uh47:54uh at this time because it was a good47:56signal i mean we knew that we there47:58wouldn't be any friction lms was able to48:01you know you were able to to pass on48:03certain things you remember for instance48:04you asked for accounting uh we didn't48:06have any accounting yet you told us okay48:08just give the bank statements and when48:10i'm telling this story again today that48:12we raised funds just by providing what48:14we had because you were caring about48:17going fast i mean you you were such48:20flexible that48:22was uh yeah highly appreciable and48:23that's part of the success of the48:25project and that's yes something that we48:27wouldn't have found uh in48:30with other investors so you were really48:32able to adapt to our resources to our48:33skills because we didn't know how to do48:35accounting we didn't have money to48:37produce accounting uh it was too low48:39scale to do accounting it was not of48:41interest so yeah you48:43it's because you were really adaptive48:45really adaptive i know what it feels48:47like because we had no accounting two48:48years ago a special chat too48:51and um also half of the time to make the48:54deal was consumed more by not the48:56willingness the willingness to invest48:58was already there and i also knew that49:01we most probably will work together it49:04was just the the french language the the49:06new types of documents the new49:08jurisdiction for us49:10there49:11i personally49:14downloaded your documents49:16the dsa air for example and i went to49:19kitchen with my wife at home because she49:21spec speaks french and i asked her49:23camilla would you please translate this49:25for me i don't understand [ __ ] and i49:28don't have uh any other person in the49:30world i know49:31who can translate a a49:33french document for me so49:36even my family was involved into making49:38the deal happen but49:41and the friction uh49:44i already i always used this uh dpl49:47translator and my wife in order to49:49understand what's in the dog what i49:51really what was the really and she still49:53remember this is our banks and or49:55auditors they wanted like english49:58translation from49:59french documents that really50:01uh was the pain in the ass but thank you50:04for coordinating we did this man50:08i even thought50:10subscription yeah50:14about selling the company50:16uh i remember we50:18wanted uh to start thinking about50:21selling in january 2020 for sure maybe50:24even earlier at least to research it50:28uh what's on your end why did you decide50:30to sell and how long did the two did it50:33take in order to fulfill this50:35process50:36i decided to serve the company because50:38uh the the the the current timing is not50:42good for adult products uh because there50:45are you know there is a rise of50:46conservative politics and a rise of uh50:50it's often like that when you have a50:51kind of financial and social and50:53political crisis there is a rise of the50:55conservatism and in general the exotic50:58markets are a bit uh prohibited and in51:00the history it always works like that so51:03while sex tech was kind in the 2012 201551:06it was kind of freezing51:08then it like it was decreasing and some51:11incubators closed the close close the51:13project of opening sex tech incubators51:15and segments and so on so it was much51:18more difficult because visa you just51:19have to google it and you will find hope51:22bonner was in trouble how hicks answer51:23was in trouble visa51:26visa mastercard uh threatening every day51:30to close the site and imposing new rules51:33that are totally unmanageable51:36google ads which which is transforming51:39the the ad policies more and more until51:41the moment where adult entertainment ads51:44will be prohibited51:45uh whereas it's the most profitable um51:48acquisition way uh for that kind of51:50things51:51uh51:52you51:53you spend your time getting your bank51:55account closed and you open a new one i51:57mean that's because it's probably it but51:59because partners don't want to work with52:00angel because you know you could be52:02mafia you could be connected to mafia52:04you could be52:05there is a very bad image and there is52:07always someone in the network who52:08doesn't work to work with adult and it's52:11enough to make the whole network not52:13wanted to work in adults we had only52:16people who said i'm sorry we have to52:18close your account or we have to52:19terminate our relationship but we love52:21you and we love your products but we52:23have someone in our network who doesn't52:24want it if you ask this person this52:26person will say oh no i don't have any52:28problem with i don't i just know people52:30who may have problems so everybody just52:32know people who may have problems banks52:34they have partnering you know credit52:36card companies and so on who may cause52:38trouble it's never them it's always a52:41partner52:42so52:43there was that so we were pretty sure52:45that it could collapse at any time52:48so that's why we thought that someone52:49who already had many sites a big52:51industry player who was enough cash to52:54maybe52:55stay52:56seven eight years doing shitty business52:58but being able to you know to support to53:01bear with a difficult period uh with53:03without that these kind of players could53:05be53:06more suitable to keep operating lucky53:08crash also because uh i personally53:10wanted to celebrate my 30 years old53:14without being involved in adult industry53:17anymore53:18because it was a kind of jokes at the53:19beginning at the beginning i mean we had53:21this idea53:23when we had the hangover we went to53:24mcdonald's and we said okay we will do53:27adult gambling so it was a joke when we53:29were 23 or 24 so i mean it was just a53:33joke so so how old are you now you53:35didn't remind me53:37i'm i've just turned the 27 28.53:41wow 28 good53:43four 30 under 30.53:46what yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah53:53how did you find the exit how did you53:56find the company to purchase here53:58that's also an interesting topics for54:00the54:01current or aspiring entrepreneurs who54:03are on the market right now54:06what was your example of course i know54:07the answer but people need to hear it54:09from you54:11sure uh actually we just used you54:13remember when i explained you how i54:15respond54:16uh54:17in the in the list there are some people54:19we connected with and we keep talking54:22for two three years they were interested54:24in our adventure54:25and uh54:26they were kind of um not good friends54:28because we never met anyone54:31in the reality except almas once we54:33never met anyone in reality everything54:35was happening on internet and among them54:38there was a big54:40pawn and dating54:42german industry player54:44and54:44someone who always was very supportive54:47and54:48who considered investing when almas54:50finally took the deal54:52uh and you know that he regretted it he54:55told me several times i should have been54:57i should have been more aggressive or54:59more you know proactive and so and i was55:01like okay but that's too late55:03and that's finally the guy who who55:04purchased the company so55:07we just contacted a few of the people we55:09were getting along with and uh we found55:11this person we we worked with an55:14investment now how it is the name55:16and m a company you55:18know uh55:20yeah uh because they that this church of55:22things uh we had like three to four55:25people who were interested in getting55:27the business so they were able to to you55:29know to create the steps necessary to55:32increase the price uh the selling price55:34at maximum until there is only one buyer55:37which is the normal55:38the most effective m a process you may55:40have if it was only us i think we would55:42have sold for less expensive because we55:45didn't have the keys to increase the55:47price but none is scamming way i mean to55:49increase the price because it's the55:50value it has i mean you know can have55:52you close55:54can you can you disclose the acquisition55:56price or still under nda56:00uh no it's not uh under nba the56:02acquisition price it uh it was uh 1056:06a little bit less than 10 million euros56:13it's a good result for adults because we56:15saw if it was a non-adult company but it56:18would be 15 million56:20so you have to imagine that we sold for56:223.7 times the ebitda56:27which is uh which is good for you56:28because adult you sell between 2.5 and56:313.5 uh56:34yeah so they they bought for 3.7 which56:37is uh much above what we could expect56:40but you have to imagine that we were56:41making more than 1 million euros in56:44sales per month56:45and that we had like a 2056:47net profit uh so if it was an adult if56:51there wasn't the risk of losing56:53everything from one day to another56:55because they were like three or four56:57events during the two last years where56:59we really said okay we will never stand57:01up after that57:03and uh finally it worked but it was sure57:05that one day we would take something in57:07the face that we couldn't face but we57:09wouldn't get and get up again uh so it57:12was it was kind of frustrating because57:14imagine 20 percent net profit over one57:16minute i imagine i imagine and we57:19only three employees only three57:21employees57:23by the way not 5057:25just three57:27yeah yeah we're employing them if it was57:29an agent to we could have ended because57:32we were also collecting reserving a lot57:34of cash to face these kind of issues if57:37it wasn't risky as adults we would have57:39shared the cash between founders and we57:41would have crazy salaries every month57:43and so on yeah but we weren't even doing57:45it57:46because we we we at the end we had like57:48one or two millions in cash just not yet57:51just because you you have to be able57:54let's say if you lose the the payment57:56processor during one week the time to57:59have a new one yeah you have reserved to58:00make necessary58:02you have to make the site free for all58:04because you don't want to lose your58:05customers because they are the most58:07important thing in your business58:08so we were we always had cash to be able58:12to face an interruption of service58:14actually which is the main risk in58:16when doing address or gambling or things58:19like that58:20so58:28what i say now you are a successful man58:31what did you58:33share with us58:35what exactly did you feel the moment you58:38received a seven-figure sms into your58:41iphone58:42what did you feel58:44did you scream jump i don't know58:46whatever kissed every all girls in paris58:49or whoever you met on the street i know58:51what did you feel58:53yeah that that58:55that it's like a little dream for for a58:57few days or a few weeks because the the59:00thing that matters the most to me is uh59:03is to to to59:04the the childness of mind i mean just59:06you know the the serenity because you59:08know that you will be able to invest59:10that and that now you will work because59:12you want to make more cash or because59:14you want to work for an association for59:16charity or because you want to work59:17because you love the subject and working59:19is no longer an obligation and uh if you59:22want to uh what i'm doing right now if59:23you want to go on an island and spend59:25your time surfing i think that you have59:28your investments59:29who are invested in the investment banks59:31the kind of banks who work for59:33footballers you know and things like59:35that where you have a good a good return59:38rate that allows you to have a salary59:40for life so that's59:42that's really the the fact of not no59:44longer being able to work or choosing59:46why you work which is the first thing59:48that creates that puts you in a whole59:50new world really in a whole new world59:53you you discover yourself again because59:55you have time for that59:57uh i also had two weeks where i was1:00:00totally depressed because i had the1:00:01feeling that i didn't sell for enough1:00:03money1:00:04my in my m a company told me that it's1:00:07totally normal they told me even when1:00:09people sold sell company for 40 billions1:00:12they have a time after that where they1:00:14say okay but if we sold for 40 billions1:00:16maybe we could have sold for 50 and they1:00:19are feeling bad also again so i've been1:00:22reassured by uh by investors and m a1:00:25companies so that it's okay that's the1:00:27best we could do in eduard so just just1:00:29feel okay with that and that was true so1:00:31now i'm of course now i'm sorry very1:00:33interesting insight i never heard about1:00:35this1:00:37yeah yeah yeah so so that was the1:00:38feeling and uh then the third feeling uh1:00:41which came later was to feel to get1:00:44bored because actually the financial1:00:46freedom uh is good at the beginning1:00:48because it's just relieving from many1:00:50things but in the end when you wonder1:00:53what you will do in the morning it's1:00:54quite uh it's quite stressful because1:00:57you can do any everything and and you1:01:01know you're spending your time comparing1:01:03all the options1:01:04but as you don't really need to select1:01:06one1:01:08through necessity you're just hesitating1:01:10comparing so so there is a phase where i1:01:12didn't know what to do and it was quite1:01:14stressful uh and that's it and finally1:01:17uh now it's pretty cool because things1:01:18are structuring themselves so i know1:01:21what i want to do uh to to to to make my1:01:24days busy i know in which kind of1:01:26activity i want to invest my time1:01:29i know uh which kind of business i i1:01:31want to to create right now uh i i took1:01:34time to to to go to to meet myself again1:01:37because i started doing1:01:40uh entrepreneurship at school first1:01:42because1:01:43the the entrepreneur track uh in my1:01:45school was shitty but also because it1:01:47was a way to uh to hide personal things1:01:50actually to to make my mind busy instead1:01:53of being busy with you know i don't know1:01:54things that were1:01:56annoying me at this moment so you are1:01:58matching with these things again because1:01:59you discovered that even millions and1:02:01the company and so on didn't delete all1:02:03that so it's still here so i have i had1:02:06a feeling to indeed i had the feeling1:02:08the feeling to deal with things that i1:02:10had left few years ago so and they1:02:13didn't disappear1:02:14at all so i'm now treating personal1:02:17issues with another mindset uh when it1:02:20was hard to treat them to deal with them1:02:22with a teenager mindset so so it's1:02:25really cool to to1:02:27find yourself again like that can you1:02:29share with us what the industry will be1:02:31for for your new project will will that1:02:33be sas or something else1:02:36uh actually first1:02:37i thought about many projects the first1:02:40thing is that1:02:42you know it's like imagine that you do a1:02:44painting for the first time and someone1:02:47buy it for millions and then this person1:02:49says okay can you do another painting1:02:51and you're like wow how to do a new1:02:53painting which is not the painting i1:02:54have already sold1:02:56and everything you create ends being a1:02:59kind of copycat of what you what you did1:03:01it's super hard to really start from1:03:03from nothing again yeah uh so the1:03:05beginning i was like on agile things1:03:07whereas i had left a job because there1:03:08was a risk of losing everything from one1:03:10day to another but i said okay now i1:03:12have secured1:03:14all my time invested in lucky crash1:03:16let's do another adjust business and try1:03:18to secure it again after two or three1:03:20years maybe it's good to do like that1:03:22uh but finally i realized that no i1:03:24wasn't i really didn't want to do that1:03:27again just1:03:28just for the richness of the mind you1:03:30know i wanted to do something else just1:03:31to not to have done that for years and1:03:33or for all my life my whole life1:03:36uh so um i thought i knew that i only1:03:40wanted to do uh news type businesses you1:03:42know businesses where the product is1:03:44found online1:03:46consumed online with i wrote an article1:03:48about that1:03:49i wrote1:03:50about news business that you uh told me1:03:53about my my viewers know about this1:03:57well yes so so on immune businesses and1:04:00finally uh when i was trying to to look1:04:03for news business ids i decided to start1:04:06with the resources i had and the fact is1:04:09that when you have this money1:04:11which is invested through an investment1:04:13bank1:04:14with the right advisors and so on the1:04:17the bank is willing to lend you an1:04:19unlimited quantity of cash1:04:22if you show immediate profitability so1:04:25what i do now is that my bank is lending1:04:27me in unlimited money1:04:30to buy apartments1:04:33flats whole buildings anything and the1:04:36loan every month is just1:04:39refunded by the rentals of the you know1:04:42of the shops who ran the shop or the1:04:45people who ran the flat but uh 1001:04:48leverage effect so the the the bank1:04:51lends money and every month is just1:04:54refunded with what people who rent the1:04:56place uh give and i don't put a single1:04:59penny in that and the goal is i do first1:05:02operation if it's profitable the bank1:05:04immediately gives me another amount and1:05:07they are able to do that in an unlimited1:05:10number of times1:05:11they take in warranties all my assets so1:05:14it's a bit risky but they also take in1:05:16guarantees all the apartments and1:05:19buildings that we are buying so at least1:05:21they will take this the things before my1:05:23own assets so always a bit of security1:05:26so as i have this resource i said okay1:05:29maybe you need to do only one one1:05:31company one you know product based1:05:33company1:05:34and then you just use your money as a1:05:36guarantee to do this average effect with1:05:38a bank that trusts you and trust your1:05:40little business models your little real1:05:42estate business models one after another1:05:44so1:05:45so i think it's better to focus on the1:05:47resources you have today1:05:48rather than trying to find ideas that1:05:51are far from where you are from the1:05:53resources you are for yeah from who you1:05:55are from the people1:05:57who you are surrounded by so i think you1:06:00should just say okay who1:06:02who are my friend who is my family1:06:04which kind of influence we have in which1:06:06industry and uh and use that because too1:06:09many people as you said at the beginning1:06:12wants to build dreams instead of a1:06:13reality and uh and1:06:16and yeah just start from what you have1:06:18and i said okay so it's that's exciting1:06:20that doing a digital product but first1:06:21let's do that and when when i will have1:06:24done i don't know multiple four multiple1:06:27five over uh what i earned maybe i would1:06:30try all the digital things or when i1:06:31would be enough of traveling or things1:06:33like that1:06:35philip that's amazing inside uh i1:06:38suggest uh1:06:39going to the q a part and i was thinking1:06:42about how to properly do it for example1:06:45let me show you there are a few1:06:47questions that initially were asked by1:06:50by people these ones however how about i1:06:54send them to you in text in telegram and1:06:57you will take your time later to answer1:06:59them this text part so i release an1:07:02article here uh with your q a and now we1:07:06can spend this time to uh invite some1:07:08viewers to our stage and ask them the1:07:11question in person does that sound good1:07:13everyone1:07:15good1:07:17good uh hold on a second how to turn it1:07:20off now uh everyone you can ask to speak1:07:23on stage and i can invite you on stage1:07:27[Laughter]1:07:37hold on a second let us wait for the1:07:38first people1:07:41uh1:07:42who wants to ask the question1:07:45or from and i hope it was easy to1:07:47understand everything because i i'm1:07:50speaking really fast1:07:52so1:07:53i know i have to work on that a bit1:07:55i don't know it's not about that it's1:07:57all about uh saving time it's all about1:08:00saving time but if you want hold on a1:08:02second does anyone raise a hand no one1:08:05is raising a hand i don't know uh hold1:08:07on let us go to the questions then um i1:08:11don't know andrew wants to speak hold on1:08:12andrew go on stage allow to speak come1:08:15on man1:08:20go on stage1:08:21and they1:08:22yeah sorry i forgot to press the button1:08:25yeah hi everyone1:08:30turn on the video wow turn on the video1:08:33yeah1:08:35uh1:08:36well first of all uh you're a bit bold1:08:39that's also1:08:41uh1:08:43yeah a bit a bit but not inside as you1:08:45know1:08:46so um yeah i would like to ask you just1:08:49one simple question how do you feel in1:08:51general after all so all after all of1:08:53these years uh after1:08:55struggles uh like battles with the1:08:58investors possibly or with the customers1:09:01uh with the acquirer1:09:03yeah how do you feel1:09:05like what what changes1:09:08a feeling of1:09:10being accomplished every morning because1:09:13i studied entrepreneurship because i was1:09:15literally lost in my life and i was only1:09:17partying and so on1:09:19and uh1:09:21i that was the i didn't have a good1:09:23image of myself in terms of you know1:09:25being able to do something uh something1:09:27bigger than me and uh1:09:30when you just did the whole cycle it was1:09:32an obsession i wanted to create1:09:34something and end by selling it just to1:09:36know what is the start of life1:09:38and1:09:39yeah i just feel that1:09:40every morning i feel like yeah i i did1:09:43it and i'm just proud of myself and much1:09:45more than when i1:09:46before that1:09:48adventure1:09:49uh so yes i feel cheered and1:09:51accomplished so so i feel a certain1:09:53serenity1:09:55with myself1:09:56so that's really the but it's because1:09:58there was a little fight with myself1:10:00also in this adventure so1:10:02so1:10:04yes i would say that it's what is1:10:05animating me1:10:06i think it's the first start when i wake1:10:08up in the morning so1:10:11at the moment1:10:14that's gross that's solid1:10:16well1:10:17i i can feel this inspiration so that1:10:20that that's why i had such question yeah1:10:22we will learn some inspiration here1:10:25okay1:10:27thank you1:10:30well let's let's proceed to the next one1:10:34we know each other by the way uh yeah1:10:38um1:10:44asks about releasing this on youtube and1:10:46uh are you okay1:10:48right remind me that we release this uh1:10:50call on youtube john phillip1:10:53oh yeah sure sure was pleasure good okay1:10:55let me show you the question then1:10:57because nobody is raising hands right1:10:59now there were a lot of raised hands1:11:00before1:11:01but1:11:02uh so here he he you can choose any1:11:06anything to answer but what was your1:11:08first 10 and play hiring list and i'm1:11:10smiling when i'm reading this because i1:11:12know that it was less than 10.1:11:15yes1:11:16no1:11:17probably you answered1:11:19the real question is who are the other1:11:21guys except for you mentioned1:11:24no actually we've been dead and it's i1:11:26think it's something that we should1:11:27share we have been 10 because we said1:11:30okay things are1:11:31what we what we liked was to automate1:11:34automate things always okay we do some1:11:36things it takes time we find a way to1:11:38automate it or delegate it all the time1:11:40and then it doesn't take time anymore1:11:42let's address another thing that takes1:11:44time1:11:45and at the moment we said okay we need1:11:47to go faster on the features and1:11:49optimization and scaling up of the1:11:51technical infrastructure1:11:53and we said okay let's build a team from1:11:55scratch but it looks so easy to use you1:11:58know1:11:59outsourcing companies so we we built the1:12:02team1:12:03in one week through an out of ukrainian1:12:05outsourcing company and it was a 1001:12:09loss because um1:12:10you know outsourcing is good when you1:12:12have a good management when you have uh1:12:14the three-quarters of your team who is1:12:17in-house and you you just use1:12:19outsourcing as a residual resource to1:12:22your things1:12:23when even your your1:12:25your product1:12:27there the developers the when you want1:12:29all these people coming from one place1:12:31from the outside company you have a full1:12:33an element of the interest and they are1:12:36just charging huge uh amounts of money1:12:39for almost zero deliverability because1:12:42our cto wasn't able to manage and to1:12:44check the the work of these people1:12:46so that's what that was a good1:12:58yeah1:13:00sorry1:13:01you are bad now we lost you again1:13:04ah1:13:05okay and i said that it was much more1:13:07efficient when we hired a cto who had1:13:10experience in management and he decided1:13:13he he really wanted to build1:13:14we didn't have the time because we sell1:13:16but1:13:17he wanted to first build a solid1:13:19in-house team it's better to have two or1:13:22three developers in-house committed with1:13:25the right incentives on the salary to1:13:27work at night when they need or you know1:13:30to fill us co-founders rather than say1:13:32okay i will have 10 people at once1:13:34through an outsourcing company and it1:13:36will be cheap and you realize that these1:13:3810 people were much less productive that1:13:40than just our developer alone so1:13:44that's why it was a huge mistake and1:13:45never think that you can uh create your1:13:48tech team from an outsourcing company or1:13:50maybe there are some examples of people1:13:52who manage to do it but all the people1:13:55told us that it was a bad idea and we1:13:57still wanted to do it and we confirmed1:13:59it was a bad idea1:14:01got it did you define and build some1:14:03kind of corporate culture it's hard to1:14:06imagine it for me when you are 10 or1:14:07less1:14:08however1:14:10at least if there was some how could you1:14:12destroy the culture1:14:16literally it was the the1:14:18the goal was to allow because we have1:14:21been up to five in-house1:14:23and uh the goal was to to allow anyone1:14:26to live a healthy and dreamed life so1:14:29that anybody you know there is a the cmo1:14:33he was1:14:34at home with his children in his big1:14:37house and he was enjoying i was uh i1:14:39moved out from paris and i went to the1:14:41city where you have hippies and uh and1:14:44you are surfing every day1:14:46uh so we were just all kind of feeling1:14:48the life we wanted with huge incomes and1:14:52compensations and so yes the culture was1:14:56enjoying your daily life so i i have i1:14:59never felt like if i worked i never felt1:15:02i worked actually1:15:05i never felt i sacrificed anything in my1:15:07personal life and so on1:15:10the culture was clearly there was a1:15:12money culture i mean we really uh1:15:15we really were very very hungry1:15:18and1:15:19yes it was just live where you want and1:15:22do what you want to do uh work when you1:15:25want to do so if you want to work 101:15:26hours at night and sleep all day long or1:15:29do something during the day just do it1:15:31and if you want the opposite just do it1:15:34just don't feel any pressure it was also1:15:39there was a certain priorities no1:15:41parallelism but1:15:42uh how to say that um it was a1:15:44participative management because you1:15:46imagine that we were we were five so1:15:49we had a very familiar communication but1:15:51at the same time we have very clear1:15:53processes so sometimes we were sending1:15:54signature requests to say now this is1:15:56how we are working so uh there is a time1:15:59for discussion and there is a time for1:16:00execution and you can challenge1:16:02something after uh we validate something1:16:05if there is a dead end1:16:06uh i am the person who who who makes god1:16:08from the the dead end but all that was1:16:11something signed at the beginning and1:16:13then it was participating and the the1:16:15these rules these decision rules were1:16:17literally1:16:19sacred for us so it was they were really1:16:21nobody would try to to put them into1:16:23question because they all knew that that1:16:26was the key for1:16:28their lifestyle and they all loved their1:16:30lifestyles so much that they they they1:16:32respected these little things that we1:16:34were arguing uh as uh as if it was1:16:37coming from god and uh and uh except1:16:40that1:16:41as we had a solid background in stems in1:16:43terms of process and decision and so on1:16:45we could just talk like friends because1:16:47we know that even if we're talking like1:16:49friends this is the structure behind and1:16:51this is this is if this is a technical1:16:53problem or a marketing problem you are1:16:55just an advisor or you are the person1:16:57who decided and you you can't do1:17:00anything outside this cup and uh so that1:17:02was the values so1:17:04it was just let's fix things at the1:17:06beginning so that we can just be friends1:17:08uh beyond that1:17:09so so yes1:17:11by the way you might create your1:17:12decisions1:17:16you mentioned the decisioning process1:17:18what are your top three decision making1:17:20principles john phillip1:17:24three decision making principles yeah1:17:26well if you can state if you thought1:17:28about that1:17:29or or you can't think about it now it's1:17:31about time1:17:33i know as i told you it's that uh first1:17:35when uh someone identified an issue in1:17:38his field or the field of uh one of the1:17:41other uh1:17:42co-founders uh first he has to to to1:17:45create an analysis of it a quantitative1:17:47quantitative analysis of it so you have1:17:49to be able to prove what you are1:17:51identifying whatever it's in your field1:17:53or the field of someone else then we1:17:56we1:17:57challenge it together then the person at1:17:59the origin of the id can1:18:02start by crafting a solution which is1:18:05challenged again and then during during1:18:08this challenging period we define what1:18:10will be the solution to this problem1:18:12and uh once it's done uh as a product1:18:15owner i was uh creating the specs of1:18:18this solution and they were executed as1:18:21uh it was in the specs so and1:18:23and that's that's how it was working so1:18:26from there1:18:28or a need for iteration to the execution1:18:32how you answered this question1:18:34it shows that you are creator and1:18:36builder not the process manager you're1:18:38more about building and that's cool1:18:41that's cool1:18:42and you answered the question uh1:18:45what are the top three crucial essential1:18:47things you think1:18:49that helped you earn the success in the1:18:51last like five years what the definition1:18:55yeah definitely1:18:57your funnel your acquisition funnel even1:19:00if you have a b2b product you should1:19:03just buy random traffic somewhere1:19:05because1:19:06you know putting people on the product1:19:07where you are with them or when it's1:19:10your brother or your sister and so on1:19:11it's it's no value it's not valuable1:19:13just put1:19:14a huge number a huge a big number of1:19:17people that you don't know in an1:19:20anonymous way through ads on your1:19:22product and1:19:24put funnel analytics everywhere and you1:19:26will see that even if you're uh super1:19:29smart and you thought about all the1:19:31features it it there is a big1:19:33probability that on step two or step1:19:35three of the use of your product there1:19:37is a something that is uh blocking1:19:39ninety-nine percent of the people so so1:19:42your funnel is just just think just1:19:44think fennel and um1:19:46yeah that's the most important thing1:19:48and built your funeral1:19:50from the ad to the1:19:52value proposition and not the opposite1:19:55so for instance if if you are still1:19:57thinking about your features the color1:19:59or the logo or the type you know the the1:20:04don't define your product before you you1:20:06do the ads do several ads showing1:20:08different value propositions present the1:20:10same value proposition in different ways1:20:13and then the app which is which has the1:20:15more clicks for instance you will say1:20:18okay the product should look more like1:20:20that than the other ads and then do a1:20:22landing page i see that people don't1:20:25engage so i will change a few things1:20:27okay people engage so now i really know1:20:30which kind of features i know and so on1:20:31and then you build your product and1:20:33that's how you would build a product you1:20:35won't take any risk because if people1:20:36click the ad with people engaged on1:20:38their landing page1:20:40the the probability that your product1:20:42doesn't work starts to be very low1:20:44whereas if you start by i met so many1:20:46entrepreneurs who tell me because now i1:20:48do advising for media buying and traffic1:20:50acquisition1:20:51uh i have so many people who say no we1:20:54have first to finish our site or finish1:20:56our app or finish the new iteration and1:20:58so on and i was like no dude you don't1:20:59understand we will we will start with1:21:01ads showing completely different things1:21:04because the1:21:05the probability that what you had in1:21:07mind is the optimal value proposition is1:21:09less than ten percent so1:21:12so build your funnel from the ad to the1:21:13product and not from the product to the1:21:15ad1:21:17imagine that you can test you can you1:21:19can test value propositions today today1:21:22you do little visuals or little uh text1:21:24ads and you just send four or five and1:21:26tomorrow you will know what is [ __ ] and1:21:29and what is the right beginning of the1:21:31path and so you release the risk by 901:21:34percent in two days whereas if you spend1:21:37six months building a product which is1:21:39just an hypothesis among so many1:21:41possibilities you will just you have 901:21:44percent chances of losing six months of1:21:46your life1:21:48probably yes so do you understand1:21:50how do you understand when it's time to1:21:52make changes to the1:21:54to the product or you you need to wait a1:21:56bit to get more the result but i think1:21:58you just answered to that1:22:01you you just have yes you just test1:22:04you just test and and iterate either1:22:06because people require it so you do1:22:10you know classical service uh you find1:22:12way to to involve the community and know1:22:14which kind of pictures you should do or1:22:16either you have it part of this and you1:22:18you test it but your test should all you1:22:20should always think mvp so you should1:22:23the the first iteration if the first1:22:25iteration of your new feature looks like1:22:27the final feature that you had in mind1:22:30there is definitely a program in your1:22:31product strategy because the mvp version1:22:34of a feature is often very far from what1:22:36the fascists will finally look like when1:22:38you will have verified that it's the1:22:39environment because1:22:41it looks like the final version is that1:22:43you put too much resources and energy in1:22:46your mvp features1:22:49just a minute i have to to1:22:51not you to charge my computer1:22:56okay1:23:01um1:23:21what i was just commenting can you1:23:24what do you regret1:23:26the most in the project1:23:30uh yeah1:23:31did you think that you missed some1:23:34opportunity1:23:36within the project except for the1:23:38evaluation you don't like1:23:41sure1:23:42you know what i've just told you right1:23:43now i just regret that i didn't1:23:47apply it1:23:49well enough and i would like to to to to1:23:52to to do it more actually uh it's1:23:53because you you it's always a fight1:23:55between your intuitions and oh no i'm1:23:57pretty sure that this is what i have to1:23:58do1:24:00the analytical test so the reality is1:24:02that we didn't test 100 percent of the1:24:06thing we wanted to do maybe 801:24:09and today i would like to have the rigor1:24:12to do it for 100 of the things so what i1:24:15regret is uh not having done uh what1:24:18i've just told you to do uh for for 1001:24:21of the things so because it would have1:24:23saved me even more time we would have1:24:25earned more money faster we would we1:24:28would have sold for more money so1:24:30yeah so basically just that doing better1:24:32what we did but regret is a good1:24:35regret is a good motivator to fix the1:24:38things1:24:39then1:24:41starting1:24:42today but1:24:47regretting that you could do it more is1:24:50a good motivator to apply it then in the1:24:53new project yeah1:24:54it's yet to tell you1:24:56uh there are two more questions there1:24:59was a question how did you do precedent1:25:00first investors in this but you already1:25:03and uh we already discussed that1:25:05there are two questions i don't think1:25:07you want or uh1:25:09can answer us i mean you can1:25:12in which jurisdictions do you work with1:25:14models but i think it's better not to1:25:17tell about it these days i think1:25:19uh or no1:25:21it's up to you1:25:24it's not a problem individual addictions1:25:26oh that's a that's a great question1:25:28because1:25:29uh we were in a famous incubator in1:25:31paris and they told us oh you know it's1:25:33a new product new experience campsites1:25:35are all hosted uh on you know other1:25:39other countries and1:25:40there are not a lot in france so we1:25:42don't really know what the state would1:25:43think about it1:25:44and uh1:25:46at the beginning the the kind of guru1:25:48which who is you know today uh someone1:25:50who is on the first page of all the1:25:52newspaper because uh he was a guru1:25:55the startup french startup nation guru1:25:57with not so good intentions but he1:26:00advised us to go um in a1:26:02tax paradise not to uh you know not to1:26:04save taxes just to have a you know a1:26:07state government that just doesn't care1:26:09about the type of business you do1:26:11and uh first we spent like uh three1:26:14months and twelve thousand euros for us1:26:17at the beginning twelve thousand euros1:26:18it was1:26:20everything we had1:26:21uh in the wires to build the company in1:26:23the british virgin islands british1:26:25virgin islands is a kind of island where1:26:28you have the kind of reality show you1:26:30know where people are starving and uh1:26:33you know so1:26:34so it's not a business place and uh1:26:37it was a huge mistake because you you1:26:39you should always be clear uh i mean we1:26:42were all french and living in france so1:26:44we decided to to to make the business1:26:47compliant with what without the low wear1:26:50so that's why we always showed uh kind1:26:53of white label by you know the1:26:55consenting rules and so on even if there1:26:57was new dd and so on so that's why we1:27:00did it in france and uh we always made1:27:02it clear we always made sure to pay all1:27:05the taxes and sometimes even a bit more1:27:07if we were if we weren't sure1:27:09um1:27:10when we didn't know something we were1:27:12asking the tax administration or but do1:27:14you know that we are doing video chat1:27:16and so on just to make sure that we1:27:17wouldn't be surprised uh by anything1:27:20so1:27:21we did it in france trying to do our1:27:23best we were reporting to the police all1:27:26the you know the pedophilia uh things1:27:28that we1:27:29cases that we1:27:30had and1:27:32network and on any chat place on the1:27:34internet1:27:35so yes we did it in france1:27:38it's cool that uh you can do it in1:27:40france because what usually my thinking1:27:43is you need to have some exhausting1:27:45jurisdiction in order to do something i1:27:47don't know1:27:48outside of this whole business but you1:27:51managed to do it all1:27:52yeah the director of the incubator i was1:27:54mentioning he was sure of that and uh1:27:57then uh then we were enough for1:27:59everything we say listen we don't care1:28:01if we stay in your incubator or not we1:28:03don't care if your husband's with you or1:28:04not we will do it in france and if1:28:05you're not happy just leave and he said1:28:08okay okay guys let's do it in france and1:28:10let's see what happens and uh hit uh and1:28:13it happened super well1:28:15it was it was it was making1:28:18it was funny because the the the the1:28:20people1:28:21we had interaction with like from the1:28:23tax agency or things like that they were1:28:25nothing so much when we when they were1:28:27discovering the nature of the business1:28:28so it was even funny because we were1:28:30always showing that1:28:32we we could have escaped in another1:28:34country and we didn't do it and we were1:28:36happy to pay taxes in france and uh so1:28:40so it was a pretty good mood for1:28:43in our relationships with the1:28:45with the interlocutors that we had uh1:28:46from the the stage1:28:48if you could and that's the last thing1:28:50of our interview1:28:53do you have some1:28:54advice to people who will are going to1:28:58start business now1:29:00if there was a single advice1:29:03what i would say address1:29:05a single advice and there is only one1:29:07that is mattering actually all the rest1:29:09is even not worth it it's just what i1:29:12said earlier it's just thing your1:29:13funeral from the ad to your product and1:29:15not the opposite if you do that you you1:29:18you1:29:19there is 100 chances you're gonna have1:29:21to be rich in the next 10 days the next1:29:2310 years and probably in the next two or1:29:26three or four years uh if you do the the1:29:28opposite uh like most of entrepreneurs1:29:31um1:29:32you may need more than 100 years to1:29:35reach your objective so1:29:38just save time and dismantle now1:29:40[Music]1:29:42if you need to ask something of our1:29:43audience for example if you're looking1:29:45for some i don't know engineers1:29:47partners1:29:52you can broadcast it now because it will1:29:54be recorded forever in youtube1:29:57and for example if you want someone to1:29:59reach you out1:30:00uh you can leave a contact for example1:30:02if you want1:30:03anyone with a good anyone with a good1:30:05idea or any engineer or designer uh1:30:09thinking uh he had you know you know1:30:12discovered a need or or something and1:30:15and would like to partner with someone1:30:16who1:30:17has a bit of experience in1:30:19in uh traffic acquisitions cleaning up1:30:21and things like that um1:30:23you know i didn't really develop the1:30:25ideas i had recently but i i would1:30:28always be happy to jump in the project1:30:29that i would find fun or really fun or1:30:31relevant or anything so yeah i'm1:30:34literally open to to business1:30:36opportunities whatever they are1:30:38cool1:30:39man1:30:40thank you for this interview1:30:42i think we are at 1.5 hours that's1:30:45exactly the maximum that we should stop1:30:47on have a good diamond as always let's1:30:50keep in touch1:30:51we planned this interview in february we1:30:54knew that you had to ah by the way uh1:30:56can we mention that you are well you had1:30:58to work for a few more months and now1:31:00you are free because i am telling you1:31:05yeah1:31:05they were very very very nice because1:31:07they only asked me to work for one month1:31:09and after they came to paris we spent1:31:12because the business was really we1:31:14always made it simple we you know i was1:31:16talking about the mvp features sometimes1:31:19the mvp features they were they were1:31:21providing so much value compared with1:31:23the need then even if it was not1:31:25perfect or you know most beautiful1:31:29just forget your ego and sometimes the1:31:30mvp feature is working you you you1:31:34you keep your1:31:35feature even if it looks a bit uh1:31:37sketchy you know and uh1:31:40i don't remember why i was uh telling1:31:42that oh yes so it was really um you know1:31:45yes so you didn't have to really work1:31:47for many years for the new company1:31:50because it was very simple1:31:53yeah yeah so even the the people who1:31:56bought us they thought they wouldn't1:31:57need1:31:58us1:31:59for for three to four months after one1:32:02week they went in paris and i was uh1:32:04eating europe things and drinking1:32:05coffees and he was working and he he was1:32:08like i'm sorry i don't have more1:32:09questions for you and i was like dude i1:32:12had warned you that it was really easy1:32:14to take over this business1:32:15and uh yes it was less than one week was1:32:18necessary for the new ceo to literally1:32:20manage everything1:32:22cool1:32:23thank you for sharing this because i was1:32:26employed like one month but uh but yes1:32:28less than one month well i i asked this1:32:30because i also write uh articles about1:32:33uh ernest and uh locked down for like1:32:37several years to work for the acquiring1:32:39company in order to finally complete the1:32:41deal and that was not your case you just1:32:44had to work for one month1:32:45you can't remember that end of the march1:32:48so april 1st1:32:49you were the free man1:32:52the free man yeah anyway congrats again1:32:55thank you have a nice day there1:32:57i see you have a girl1:32:59romantic atmosphere in the background1:33:02yeah yeah and thank you thanks everyone1:33:05for watching the stream and then1:33:07recording on youtube bye bye1:33:10bye cool thank you bye
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