Transcript of Emerald Fennell Breaks Down a Scene From 'Wuthering Heights' | Vanity Fair
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0:00It's hard not to want to0:02Sorry, Margo. She won't mind. She still0:04looks even more gorgeous than ever, of0:05course. Hello, I'm Emerald Fennell. I'm0:08the writer and director of Wuthering0:09Heights, and this is notes on a scene.0:12So, you have been abroad?0:14Oh, Edgar, look at him. Of course, he0:16has.0:18Tell us, Heathcliff, where have you0:19been? In this part of the movie, we are0:21in Thrushcross Grange, which is where0:24it's Cathy's marital home, and as you'll0:26see, it's very restrained in its decor.0:29Heathcliff has been absent for 5 years,0:31and he has just returned. Nobody's known0:34where he's been, and he's had undergone0:36somewhat of a transformation. He was a0:38servant and stable boy at Wuthering0:40Heights when Cathy was growing up, and0:42now he's come back, and he's rich, and0:44he's determined to ruin lives. This0:48dinner is a power dinner, right? This is0:49a power move. Heathcliff is coming over,0:52and Cathy needs to show him that she0:54made the right choice. So, she's wearing0:56all of her diamonds, wearing her most0:59sort of gorgeous dress. Jacqueline1:01Durran, the costume designer, is1:03generational genius. And so, what we1:05decided to do with the costumes and the1:06set design in this movie is really1:08choose everything from an emotional1:09place. So, it's very expressive, kind of1:11metaphorical way of working. So, we were1:13looking at other movies and all sorts of1:16different references and fashion from1:18all eras, because what we wanted was it1:20to kind of provoke a sort of primal1:22response rather than literal one. The1:24thing about Wuthering Heights, the book,1:26is it is it sort of timeless. It's kind1:30of got this uncanny feeling of being of1:32its time, but not really of its time or1:34any time. So, that's kind of what we1:35wanted to create here, which means the1:37costumes are all They just tell you a1:38lot about the characters. And we also1:41made sure that the food in every scene1:44had a kind of meaning. And so, here1:46we've got these lobsters are having a1:47fight.1:49You can just see just in front of1:50between Edgar and Cathy here, there are1:51two lobsters like going at it. And that1:54kind of stuff is just like, why wouldn't1:55you? Why wouldn't you? And then, you1:57know, talking of props, we also have1:59like this is Heathcliff's pipe, which we2:02talked a lot about because Heathcliff in2:03the book disappears,2:05and he comes back, and he's very rich,2:06and it's never explained why. Sort of2:09part of this kind of uncanny, sort of2:11Gothic world of things happen, and you2:13never really quite know how. And so, we2:16kind of felt that he'd perhaps been a2:19pirate or a smuggler. We thought it2:22would definitely be2:23on the edge of legality. So, he's got2:25this incredible scrimshaw pipe, which2:27was a kind of they whittled things out2:28of bone and scratched kind of pictures2:30into it. And so, this pipe now Jacob2:33owns actually, because it was his wrap2:34gift. It was incredibly beautiful and2:36intricate. You know, just talking about2:38set design. So, this was a composite2:40set, so both Wuthering Heights and2:42Thrushcross Grange were composite, which2:43means you can use them. They're2:45connected. It's a real place. We built2:47all of the rooms to have this like2:48gigantic scale.2:50What we really wanted to show was that a2:52level of like wealth and opulence that2:54was just completely unheard of in this2:57area at this time. We felt like for us3:00as a modern audience to sort of3:01understand Cathy's decision, it wasn't3:03just the house next door that was quite3:05nice. It was that she was being offered3:07not just comfort and security and3:10wealth, but something kind of strange3:13and new and exciting to some degree. So,3:16we built everything to this kind of3:18massive scale. And you can see here, so3:20the panels here behind Cathy, they're3:22all silver gilt. They were hand-gilded.3:25And then, what we did was we looked at3:27decorative paneling of the time had3:29these sort of3:30sort of swaths of of I suppose it would3:33have been like gesso plaster. But what3:35Suzie Davis, the incredible production3:37designer, did, we wanted it to feel like3:39everything in this film is a bit wet.3:41So, we wanted everything to feel like it3:42was sweating. So, what we did was make3:45this decorative paneling out of crystal.3:47And so, what happens is that you can see3:50some of these crystals then end up like3:51pooling on the floor. So, you have these3:53patches of crystals where it looks like3:55they've kind of slid off the walls. And3:56that's the kind of thing that when you3:58make your own you build your own world,4:01you can sort of get into that level of4:02detail. And then outside here, you can4:04see, so the garden was also composite,4:06so you can kind of come in and out. I4:08feel like there are certain things if4:09you're creating a fantasy world, you it4:12needs to be sort of rooted in something4:13that's real.4:15And so, the garden outside is a living4:17garden. It's real grass. It's real4:19flowers. They're real trees.4:21And that was really important, cuz I4:22really do feel like movement's a very4:25important thing to me. The way that4:26plants move in the wind is so different4:28if they're not real, and I think you can4:30tell even if you don't know that's what4:32what it is. You can sort of feel that.4:34So, this garden, which you can see4:35through the window, is alive.4:37Um and then, of course, our brilliant4:40special effects department, who are4:41geniuses, are pumping in a huge amount4:43of atmos to make it that kind of classic4:45misty Yorkshire background. And it's4:48just the pure Gothic, this stuff. We4:50built Wuthering Heights, the house, the4:52place, to be slightly too low for4:54Jacob's height, or rather just above4:56him, so he's always slightly stooped.4:58Actually, we kind of wanted everyone to5:00feel like dolls in this place, that it5:03had this sort of surreal scale, so that5:06nobody quite felt like they they lived5:08inside it, that it was5:10that it was a place for show rather than5:12for5:13the reality of being a human.5:16We kind of needed this world to have5:18that sense of uncanny artificiality.5:22Tell us, Heathcliff, where have you5:23been?5:25What have you been doing these past5:26years?5:27Was it very exciting? Obviously, this5:29moment is about Margo and how incredible5:31she is. I think the thing about Cathy5:33Earnshaw is that she's an extremely,5:37deeply unlikable character, an unlikable5:39person. In the book, she's sort of5:40constantly described as being, you know,5:43vain, capricious,5:45haughty,5:47um self-serving, cruel to the point that5:49she sort of enjoys hurting people just5:51to kind of win them back. It was really5:53important to me to find somebody who had5:55a sort of charisma, the charisma that5:56could like hold all of that, somebody5:58like a sort of Elizabeth Taylor,6:00essentially. And Margo is one of those6:02incredibly rare actors who just has a6:05kind of charisma that just shatters6:07through the camera. Like, you feel it.6:09And you also find yourself loving her in6:11spite of yourself. And that's what the6:13story is about is how far somebody can6:15go and you still love them. And her6:17performance is just so beguiling and so6:20fascinating and complicated and6:22beautiful. And the way that that I like6:24to work and we like to work together,6:26all of us, is to kind of to constantly6:29be challenging the material and putting6:30it under stress and surprising each6:32other. So,6:33this classic dinner table scene, right?6:36Those scenes are are famously quite6:37difficult to shoot because you just need6:38a lot of coverage. And what can happen6:40very quickly is people can just like6:42find themselves6:43getting into a pattern of speaking or,6:45you know, it's just it's just a natural6:47thing that happens with everyone. And6:49so, what I always like to do is kind of6:52apply pressure to different6:54performers at different times, play6:55everything in slightly different ways,6:57give people kind of, you know, sometimes6:59conflicting notes, so that there's7:01always a sense that something new is7:03happening in each take and each setup,7:05because I think otherwise quite quickly7:06you find it becomes sort of stagey and7:09tiring. Some of these takes, Margo is7:12furious, and some of them she's7:14delighted, and some of them she's barely7:17able to speak, she's so undone by7:19Heathcliff's presence, and sometimes she7:20barely looks at him. You know, and it's7:22the same for everyone. We have so many7:24options from everyone, because they're7:25all so good. They want to do that.7:27Shazad Latif plays Edgar, who I think7:30was probably the hardest part in this7:32movie, because you're playing the kind7:34of romantic rival, right? Being a7:35romantic lead is a very difficult thing7:38to do, and I always knew that what I7:41wanted for Edgar was was somebody who7:43was an actual threat to Heathcliff, but7:44whose energy was very different. And7:46actually, I think in many ways, he's7:48kind of the linchpin of the whole film,7:50because if you if you invest in him and7:53you understand why Cathy chooses him, I7:55think it really changes the dynamic. I7:57think that's the thing that's delightful7:59about working with these guys is is8:01they're not ever interested in playing8:03it safe. And here, I just want to do a8:04kind of shout-out to Sean, who is the8:06most incredible makeup designer. A lot8:08of the kind of hair and makeup brief for8:10this8:12for Cathy moving to Thrushcross Grange8:13was that she sort of became part of the8:16house. She's like a god-like presence,8:18both Cathy and Margo, but there's a8:20sense of this world and this marriage8:23sort of trying to contain her. And so, a8:25lot of her clothes tend to sort of8:26emulate the rooms that she's in. Or8:28here, for example, we have the crystals8:31on her face, which kind of echo the8:33crystals on the wall and sort of have8:35that feeling of sort of perspiration,8:37that it's beautiful, but there's8:39something kind of unnerving about it.8:41And again, it's sort of looking at hair8:43and makeup as a expressive method and a8:46metaphorical method of like storytelling8:48rather than it necessarily being kind of8:50of its time. Now here, At times. we get8:54to see some of this lovely scrimshaw8:56work that's happening. And it's all8:58about This is This is Heathcliff is9:00coming back, and he's really, in the9:02most basic sense, showing Cathy what9:04she's missed. It's It's revenge. He's9:06coming back to say like, "You spurned9:09me, and you're going to regret it for9:11the rest of your life." That is his9:12mission here. And so, of course, it9:13makes sense that he's the absolute9:15epitome of the kind of Byronic hero, the9:18sort of Georgian long coat. When baby9:21Heathcliff arrives at young Heathcliff,9:23I should say, arrives at Wuthering9:26Heights missing a tooth, and so he comes9:28back, and obviously, he's got this gold9:30tooth, and he's got this gold earring.9:32He comes in with this sort of cane. He's9:34obviously just sort of arrived in9:35England, and he's gone straight to9:37Savile Row and said, "Give me the best,9:39best, best." But he never quite fits it9:42comfortably. And Jacob's amazing here,9:44because I think the thing that was9:45really interesting is we kept pushing9:47performance-wise, we kept pushing how9:48comfortable he was in this environment,9:51because Heathcliff would be extremely9:53uncomfortable, not just because of the9:56sort of wealth and the sort of class,9:58but also because he loves Cathy. And10:01this is the first time he's seeing her10:03as a wife, and that's devastating. And10:05so, in order to kind of really push it,10:08what we were sort of doing was seeing10:09how good Heathcliff could be at playing10:12the gentleman10:13and the seducer and all of the things10:15that he becomes in the scene. And10:17actually, what we found was the more10:19comfortable he appeared to be, the more10:21disconcerting it was for Cathy and for10:23everyone else, rather than just being10:24kind of like10:26contained and uncomfortable, which of10:27course is what he's feeling inside. He's10:29sort of he gives this like10:30disconcertingly suave performance. And I10:33think that was10:35something that was just really, really10:37crucial for this scene and the kind of10:38tension. I think the thing about Jacob,10:41he's very similar to Margot in that he's10:43got this kind of center. There's an10:45enormous amount of love and tenderness10:48and generosity in him, which means that10:51even when he's playing someone violent,10:54cruel, vengeful. Heathcliff's one of the10:57least likable characters in literature,11:00really. And so, again, like Cathy, it11:02needed, you know, for this version of11:04the movie, somebody who we would at11:07least be able to connect to in in some11:09way.11:10Jacob knows and profoundly understands11:13that Heathcliff is horrible11:15and that there's so much shame attached11:17to that. And I think that Jacob was so11:19brilliant at always, always being able11:21to communicate the shame that he feels11:22about himself and his behavior.11:24And that he wishes he was better. That11:26is always the the most interesting11:29tension, isn't it? It's not just between11:31characters, it's that kind of internal11:32struggle. And for Heathcliff, you know,11:35to make him a character that you would11:37even want to sort of watch or follow11:40is that you know that he he wishes he11:43could be better and he doesn't know how11:44to be. Cathy doesn't wish she could be11:46better because she thinks she's already11:47the best and that's kind of why we love11:49her.11:50Because she sort of has no11:52self-awareness and and that there's11:53something sort of glorious about that.11:55But for Heathcliff, it's very different.11:56He's11:57he knows, but he doesn't know how to12:00change it. And that's a very moving and12:02I think relatable thing and that's what12:03one of his really amazing skills is is12:05showing all of that with At times.12:07>> But in a very kind of subtle way.12:12Is that all?12:13At times?12:15After near 5 years, it was exciting.12:19At times.12:20>> Mhm.12:22The scene in general, I would say, is12:23one of the examples that I would say12:24that my friend Jessica Knappett, who12:26plays Mrs. Burton in this film, always12:28referred to it as Wuthering Heights: The12:29Comedy. When you're dealing with the12:31world of the Gothic and huge emotions,12:33you're always rubbing up against kind of12:35melodrama and camp and it feels to me12:38that you can't really have these huge12:41emotional landscapes and worlds without12:44some humor.12:45The thing that you do really as a12:46director, maybe more than anything, is12:48is just you're you're kind of on the12:49pedals of pressure and release. And12:52sometimes that pressure is, you know,12:53sexual tension and it's released by a12:55kiss, let's say. But then sometimes it's12:57like an unbearable level of12:59embarrassment or mortification or13:01tension and then it has to be released13:04released with a laugh.13:06So, this scene, because it's so tense13:08and there's so much silence and there's13:10so much unsaid between these characters,13:12a bomb has just been detonated in these13:14people's lives and every single person13:15around this table knows it and they're13:17having a polite conversation. It's in13:19many ways similar to the lunch scene,13:21the shepherd's pie scene in Saltburn.13:23Very similar thing. It's people13:24attempting to have a normal conversation13:26when their world's just ended. And so,13:30I think to do that, it does sort of13:32sometimes need to be disconcertingly13:34funny. Now, Alison Oliver, she plays13:36Isabella, who in this is is Edgar's ward13:39and she's been kept in this kind of as13:40as many women at the time and even now13:42are kept in this kind of eternal sort of13:44girlhood. And so, she's she's sort of13:47never really been allowed to become a13:49woman and then she sees Heathcliff for13:50the first time and completely changes13:53everything and um13:55it's such a brilliant performance. It's13:58so, so layered, so clever, so connected,14:01I think, to the material not just of the14:04film, but of Brontë. We we sort of14:06always talked about Isabella as14:08a sort of possibly14:10being like an Emily Brontë, somebody who14:13wasn't allowed to sort of exist in the14:15world in the manner that they would have14:17liked to, perhaps, but14:19anyway, it's such a great performance.14:21And the sort of tension, I think also14:22the tension between her and Heathcliff14:24is just fantastic.14:30I see you want me to press it out of14:31you.14:32>> [snorts]14:33>> Well, I will not beg you for your story,14:35Heathcliff.14:37In fact, I'm beginning to suspect that14:39it was very boring.14:40>> It wasn't. Perhaps he was a pirate. Talk14:43up Hong Chau, who is, again, one of the14:46most deeply talented actresses. She is14:49all the things that I love in an actor,14:51when they give performances that are14:52slightly disconcerting. You know, that14:55are sympathetic in ways you're not14:57expecting or kind of14:58perturbing in ways you're not expecting.15:00She will never do the same thing twice,15:03but but it's impossible to put your15:04finger on what exactly she's done. It's15:07absolutely amazing. And she has a very15:10complicated character because Nelly Dean15:12in the book is the she's the15:14narrator, sort of second narrator of the15:15book.15:17And there's an amazing piece of15:18scholarship which says Nelly Dean is the15:20real villain of Wuthering Heights, which15:22I don't believe myself. But but Nelly is15:25the person who is sort of15:27in many ways she operates as the15:28audience. She's like a sane person in an15:30in an insane world. And she's constantly15:34forced to watch these two maniacs15:37essentially blow up everyone's lives15:40around them. She's trying to wrestle15:41sanity back into the room and15:43unfortunately failing at every turn. But15:45it's such a it's such an incredible15:47performance and such a and such a moving15:49one, actually. Perhaps I was. Oh dear, I15:51surely know.15:53>> [snorts]15:54>> I really don't care what you have been15:55doing.15:57Do I, Edgar?16:00Darling,16:01have I even mentioned Heathcliff?16:04A lovely bit of cruelty there. Just16:06Cathy reminding Heathcliff that she's16:08never spoken his name since he left.16:09When of course we know, having seen time16:11pass, that he is all she has thought of16:13this whole time. Here I'd love to talk16:15about the doll's house, which is an16:17exact scale model of the Thrushcross16:20Grange itself and is one of Isabella's16:22craft projects. In an earlier scene, we16:25had to do a kind of very complicated16:26in-camera trick where the house became16:28the doll's house, which meant months and16:30months of planning. But one of the fun16:33things of the doll's house is it always16:35mimics what's happening in the house.16:36So, when it's snowing, the doll's house16:37is covered in snow and has a little16:39wreath on it. Or like here tonight, it's16:41candlelit16:43like the house itself. So, it's always a16:46little version of what's happening here.16:49And I think, again, it's just that kind16:50of engagement of the suspension of16:52disbelief. It's that lovely thing of16:54things are real and not real at the same16:56time. And what you always want to make16:58something that is it may not be17:00literally real, but it's emotionally17:02resonant. And I feel like every time I17:03see the doll's house, it sort of reminds17:06me of that17:07of that feeling. I do not believe so, my17:09love. You see?17:11>> [snorts]17:11>> Keep your secrets, Heathcliff. And we17:13will have to assume that your fortune17:15was most ill-gotten.17:16>> [clears throat]17:17>> Where are you staying?17:19At Wuthering Heights. I just quickly17:21want to talk about the lighting in the17:22scene and Linus Sandgren, who is the17:24most incredible cinematographer in the17:26world. It's just such a pleasure to work17:28with him because I think that he and so17:31many so many of us on the crew, we're17:33kind of17:35determined to create this sort of17:36emotional world. In this scene,17:39and in as as much as we could in all of17:41it, it's about lighting things with real17:44candlelight. So, we had all of these17:46candles made with double, triple wicks17:49so that we could really put the light17:50into people's faces. But also that17:52they're kind of there's a slightly17:54uplighting thing. There's a sort of even17:56though it's everyone looks beautiful,17:58there's a slightly disconcerting kind of18:00gothic underlights that has a sort of18:02slightly sinister feeling. And I think18:05what Linus is so good at, as well as18:07sort of using cold and warmth.18:09And so, we have this sort of profoundly18:11cold room in this cold moonlight.18:14And this sort of warmth in people's18:15faces, but that isn't quite warm. It's18:18sort of slightly unpleasant and18:20extremely gothic. We sort of at every18:22point have to acknowledge the world of18:24the gothic and what that looks like and18:26what people bring to that themselves.18:30No, you you mustn't.18:33The place is no more than a ruin.18:36Tell him, Edgar, he must come here.18:39Indeed, if he Oh.18:41No, I would rather be home. Home?18:44Yes, I suppose it is a sort of home for18:45you. Yes, I should say so since I bought18:48it.18:49obsessed with this moment because18:51whenever we play this, everyone like18:53cheers.18:54And it's sort of I think it really says18:55a lot about how we all feel like about18:57home ownership, that he's finally18:59>> [laughter]19:00>> he's finally sort of19:01got Wuthering Heights. But no, it's19:04these are the kind of moments that I19:05absolutely love. These kind of scenes19:07when that Heathcliff has deliberately19:09kept this information to himself just in19:12order to kind of have the maximum19:15impact, which basically is the most real19:17housewives thing in the world. And I19:19think, you know, it's always remembering19:21that we're dealing with two characters19:22here who are19:24emotional terrorists. And it's just an19:27extremely fun thing to watch them go19:30like go head-to-head.19:32You did not.19:34Oh, how wonderful.19:37I must have a neighbor. So, here we get19:40a real look at this incredible design.19:43It's so thrilling. Also, it's kind of19:44it's interesting cuz of course you build19:46all of these things and you have to be19:47really careful about how sparingly you19:49show them because so often I really19:50don't want these19:52these kind of mise-en-scène to take over19:54the whole film. You sort of want to have19:57the joy of the world building, but you19:59don't want to be showy-offy about it.20:00So, here we've got, just to go through20:02it, so everything here is kind of this20:04sort of strange silver. What you can't20:06see up here, all of the ceiling roses in20:09Thrushcross Grange are held up by20:12disembodied hands, which is just the20:14sort of thing that Susie always does,20:16the kind of like maniacal detail that I20:18really love. And so, what we've got here20:20is uh these are all kind of these mirage20:22tiles. Um so, they kind of reflect the20:25fire in such a beautiful way. And these20:27are sculptures by an amazing sculpt20:29called Ann Carrington, who they're made20:31out of knives and forks and cutlery. And20:33again, it's sort of that very kind of20:35Victorian Thrushcross idea of of things20:38that are functional or sort of human of20:40human use becoming decorative in a sort20:43of deranged way. Also, this is the first20:45time and only time here that we really20:47get a great look at just the20:50unbelievable costumes of Jacqueline. So,20:52this is another motif we have again and20:54again with these costumes at20:55Thrushcross. It's a sort of caging. So,20:56this is a sequin overlay, which is a20:59sort of cage made of sequin. So, it's21:01it's like a fishing net almost made of21:04made of sequins, which again, it's just21:06like always bringing it back to that21:08feeling of sort of21:09entrapment or encasement.21:12Wonderful.21:14The thing that I have learnt is it's21:17like the film and the book itself, it's21:18cyclical. What I've learnt is you can21:20never you can't ever learn or or know21:23anything about this book. Even though I21:26have spent 25 years obsessed with this21:29book, a significant portion of my life21:31over the last few years making this21:32film, I still go back to the book and21:35find things that I didn't find before.21:37I still imagine things that aren't in21:40there.21:40It's the most extraordinarily slippery21:44and thrilling and visceral and timeless21:48thing, Wuthering Heights. I think the21:49thing of making film is in many ways21:52it's an exercise in futility. Even, you21:54know, you build these beautiful sets and21:55they're destroyed. And so, you're always21:58asking yourself what the purpose is of22:00making of making something, and22:01especially making something that you22:03love so much. And I suppose it it's it's22:06really just trying to communicate a22:08feeling and to kind of forge a22:09connection. And for me, the feeling of22:12reading Wuthering Heights was sort of22:14profound and physical and emotional. And22:17so, I hope that this film22:20which isn't really an adaptation so much22:21as it is a kind of response to the book,22:24is that hopefully it you know, this22:27movie may connect with someone in the22:29way that the book connected with me.
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