Transcript of The Day Mark Laita @SoftWhiteUnderbelly Discovered Johnny Chang | #054 | Unlearned Wisdom
Unlearned Wisdom by Johnny Chang
0:00He just got done with an interview. He0:02got He did three interviews today. So,0:04he's a little bit late.0:06You just walked in and did the raid just0:07like that?0:08>> I do it every day. That's crazy.0:10Sometimes I do more. Yeah. Really? I've0:12done The most I've did one day I think0:14it was 12. Yeah. Yeah. When when we met0:17you were just still doing like 10 a day.0:19I think like like 5 to 10 a day.0:22That was on Skid Row.0:23>> Down Skid Row, yeah. I was doing I was0:24doing a lot back then. Yeah, that was0:25crazy. 5 to 10 a days is insane. Is it0:28just all day? Morning tonight? Yeah, I0:31would just I was just a machine. I'm you0:32know, I had a lot of stamina, but I0:34think what happened is after a while0:37you just get beaten down. Yeah.0:39>> beaten down. You don't realize it. And0:40all of a sudden you're like0:42why am I exhausted all the time? I'd0:45just be curious. So, like0:47when somebody walks into your studio, do0:49you have like a thought process? It's Do0:50you have anything written down? Or how0:52do you go0:53>> now I do it differently than I did then.0:55Like when I was interviewing Johnny and0:56maybe before that, I'm definitely before0:58that I0:59would almost interview anybody that1:01looked interesting on Skid Row. Yeah.1:03And then I started getting more1:04selective.1:05What's your criteria of interesting?1:07Like obviously1:08>> Are Are we starting already?1:10Well, yeah. The old Mark Laidlaw style.1:12>> I love it.1:13>> [laughter]1:13>> No, that's the way Great way to do it. I1:14was going to ask you about your Is that1:15air conditioning or what? Yeah, yeah,1:17yeah.1:17>> Yeah, yeah. It doesn't It kind It1:18doesn't really pick up in the mics.1:20>> Oh, see. I would turn that off. It's1:21going to get real hot in here. It's like1:23a weird balance.1:24>> Okay. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. If the mics1:26are close, I guess it doesn't matter.1:27Yeah. Um How do you select who's1:29interesting? Because there's a lot of1:31you know, it's a very colorful place.1:34So, what's your determination if that1:35person looks interesting or not? You1:37almost develop develop like an intuition1:39about who's going to have an interesting1:40story or who's authentic. Yeah. Like you1:42you can you can smell You eventually1:44learn how you can smell1:46When somebody comes to me and says,1:48"Dude, I got a story that's going to1:49break the internet. It's going to blow1:50up. It's going to go viral.1:52Wait till you hear this." I just tell1:53them I'm not interested interested.1:55>> [laughter]1:55>> But when you first started that, nobody1:56knew who you were, right? You're just1:58walking around as1:59>> Oh, I was a jerk on I was just some2:01weirdo weirdo handing out money.2:03>> [laughter]2:03>> Basically. So, that's how you got the2:04first interviews.2:05>> That's how I got started. And I spent a2:06lot of money doing that. Yeah.2:08>> Wow. Yeah, a lot. So, like you would2:10just walk down the street, see somebody2:12and and what offer them some money and2:13be like, "Hey, do you want to talk?"2:15>> mean I would I would ask them if they2:16were interested in sharing their story.2:17And then I would mention along the way2:19that I I'll I'll pay you something. Ah,2:21okay. Okay.2:22>> were you paying in the early days?2:25I mean the minimum is 100. Minimum is2:26100.2:27>> Yeah. Yeah. The The most I've ever paid2:30is I think2:31>> The gambler guy.2:32>> The gambler guy. I I paid Archie Karas2:3412,500.2:35>> Oh my god. But I But I I've paid other2:37people since more. Yeah, yeah. The2:38minimum was 100.2:39>> pay that all the time. It's only when2:41somebody's like dealing with like the2:42Mexican Mafia or Archie Karas was this2:44gambler who I really wanted to2:46interview. He had a great story.2:48And I just I really wanted him just for2:50the channel. I I don't think I've made2:51money on that investment.2:54Right. But in my mind I did because I2:57really wanted him on my2:59Yeah.2:59>> podcast. Absolutely.3:01>> really happy to pay way too much money3:02for somebody that I just thought was3:04great. Knowing I'm going to lose money3:05with it. Wow. Well, now we got you3:08sitting here.3:08>> I do that a lot.3:09>> [laughter]3:10>> Like if I find somebody who I really3:11really want, I'm I'll do whatever I have3:13to do. Whatever I have to do.3:14>> yeah. Wow.3:15But now we got you here. Johnny, would3:17you like to introduce your special3:18guest? Sure. So, we have Mark Laidlaw.3:21Laidlaw. Mark Laidlaw, sorry. From S3:25>> from Soft White Underbelly. And he's I3:28mean most of you guys know me from Soft3:30White Underbelly. So,3:31uh he just gave me that stepping stone3:33to be able to like preach and do what I3:35got to do and tell my story. And I kind3:37of want to get into that, too. Like3:39>> Yes.3:40So, when we when I first walked in,3:41right?3:42>> Yep. What was your like im- I remember3:44what what what it was on my side, but we3:46no one like really knows it from your3:48side. So, I walked in. What was your3:50impression? Like Okay.3:51>> who's the guy who introduced us3:53>> Mhm. had this like little network3:56of interesting people. Yeah. And at the3:58time everyone Asher brought me was gold.4:01They were solid. Every single one was4:03worth keeping and using. And they were4:05really good quality. Who's Asher real4:07quick?4:07>> Asher is a4:10a graffiti artist. He's also extremely4:13like pierced and tattooed and4:14>> Yeah. He's got all kinds of bumps on his4:16head. No, he's got everything.4:18>> [laughter]4:18>> But he's a really nice dude. He's not on4:19drugs. He's lives on Skid Row. He's4:21lived there a a long long time. He's a4:23really interesting intelligent guy who4:25happens to know some interesting people.4:26Johnny was one of them. Mhm. And he just4:28came to me and said this guy's great.4:30And I'm like, "Yeah, let's do it." So, I4:32just I I I was4:34in that mindset back then. Just I'll4:36interview whoever. Yeah. And Johnny just4:38came in, told this great story. And I'm4:39like, "Yeah, yeah. That's cool." But4:42I was kind of like4:44>> [laughter]4:44>> I mean the religion thing I I usually4:46steer away from. I'm much more open to4:47it now than I was then.4:50I've kind of changed my attitude about4:51it a bit. But uh4:53I remember like after he did it, I'm4:55like, "Yeah.4:56It's a little heavy on the Jesus stuff."4:58>> [laughter]4:59>> So, I was thinking of not using it. But5:01eventually I you know, I I did I just5:02decided to use it. And it blew up. Yeah.5:05It's crazy.5:06>> Why did you What about religion do you5:09stay away from? I I I was just I was5:11raised in a house like my dad was really5:14anti-religion. He just thinks it's a5:15It's a bunch of5:17BS. Yeah. You adopt these attitudes that5:20your parents have.5:21It's simple as that. Didn't you say in5:23the interview that you saw him cry?5:26Yeah.5:27Behind the scenes.5:28>> cry.5:29>> [laughter]5:29>> I don't know what you I don't know what5:31you're talking about.5:32When the interview happened, were you5:33like this is a crazy story? Or what was5:35your feeling to where the end you're5:36like, "Eh?" No, no. It's like like the5:39way Johnny tells the story, it's so like5:41he's a such a great speaker. Mhm. Like5:43Johnny is a great speaker. You know, I I5:44I rate people like on a scale from 1 to5:4610 how great a speaker they are.5:48Like uh Michael Chernow who's who's a5:51survivor of a childhood sexual abuse. I5:53just interviewed interviewed him a5:55couple days ago. And he's a great great5:57great storyteller. Mike Dowd is another5:59great storyteller.6:00Um the the corrupt cop. There's There's6:03been so many. Yeah. Male and female.6:05Great great storytellers. But Johnny was6:06one of those. And it's like, "Man, what6:08a great story." And that's what really6:09sold me6:11on his story. It was just like he knows6:13how to tell his story beautifully. Yeah.6:15And I just said, "Yeah, I'll I'll I'll6:16I'll use it even though it's not my6:17thing." Yeah. The The when it when it6:19turned when it made that religious kind6:21of bend, you know, turn, I was like,6:23"Eh, it's not my thing." But6:25not everything has to be my thing.6:27So, when the when the interview was cut6:29and done and you were sitting there6:30deciding whether it was going to go out6:32or not,6:33what was that like how were you kind of6:35vetting it at that point? Just6:38Like I'm not doing this for my audience.6:40Like I never really consider what the6:42audience might like or might not like. I6:43don't I really don't care. Yeah. That6:46much. Um I just kind of know what I like6:48and what I don't. And because of the6:50religion thing it's like it's not quite6:52my thing. But then Johnny was such a6:53great storyteller. That's what really6:55sold me. Mhm. So, because I I would much6:57rather have a really interesting6:58storyteller tell me about tell me about7:00what he had for breakfast7:02than somebody come in with a really7:03great story and not know how to tell it.7:05Dude, that's so true.7:07>> Cuz Cuz you if you get7:10a great storyteller, you get Bill Burr7:11to come in and tell you about what he7:12had for breakfast, it's going to be7:14funny and fascinating. You're going to7:15love that story. Yeah. Whereas if you7:17get somebody who's just been through7:19hell, but doesn't know how to7:20communicate, it's just it's7:23painful to listen to. Do you have any7:24other questions before7:25>> No, I I I just I remember the part that7:27you said you were like7:29you know, we would talk offline. And I7:31remember you're like the forgiveness7:33aspect. You know, like that that's just7:35something that you know, everybody kind7:37of has to learn from and can like walk7:39away with. Did that like7:42influence you because of the forgiveness7:44aspect with me like7:45Cuz that was a part that you were like7:46>> is nothing more than a great forgiveness7:48story.7:48>> Right.7:49>> And7:50you know, I'm again I keep selling7:51myself as not being religious. But7:53really honestly, if you really boil it7:54down, I really am. Yeah. But I'll never7:56admit it. So,7:58uh7:59back in my probably early 30s, late 20s,8:02probably I was8:03somebody turned me on My friend of mine8:04turned me on to Course in Miracles. Mhm.8:06books. There's one by Marianne8:08Williamson. There's uh a few others. And8:10one of the other books8:12Marianne's was was great, too. But8:14there's a few Course in Miracles books8:15that are like they're like a summation8:17of the Bible. Mhm.8:18The Bible can be really difficult to8:20read and understand. Course in Miracles8:22boils it down so anybody can read8:24understand it. And And I really took to8:27some of the things that it taught. And8:28one of those was8:29it really helps you understand how8:30forgiveness is just it's the answer to8:32everything.8:33>> Everything.8:33>> Everything. Facts.8:35Yeah. I'm a I'm a huge fan of that. And8:37that's why your story was like8:39it was just such a great story. Well8:40told and a great story. Yeah. When you8:43interview and you hear a good story, can8:45you tell8:46like how it's going to do or it's always8:48random?8:49>> sometimes though, yeah. I'm I'm8:51Sometimes I hear that's going to kill.8:53And it doesn't. And it's And it's8:55disappointing when that happens. Yeah.8:56And then there's other ones that I I8:58know I've8:59I'm surprised about. For Johnny's, what9:01was your feeling like because uh9:03>> Well, I didn't suspect it was going to9:04do what it did. How many views How many9:06views has that thing got now? 9 million.9:08Who's counting? 9.1. I don't know. I9:10mean it's it's easy over five or six.9:12Yeah, yeah. I think it's at nine. 99:14million?9:14>> Yeah.9:15>> That's a lot. I I don't know what what I9:17expected.9:18Back then it was such a mixed bag of9:20like whatever. Like Skid Row was such a9:22potpourri of crazy and insane and scary9:26and depressing and everything. And And9:28you just you're pulling these things out9:30of a Yeah. your Halloween bag. And like,9:32"Oh, look at this."9:33>> [laughter]9:34>> One more. So, there's the infamous9:35thumbnail. The Johnny thumbnail. Cuz9:37that's what made me click on the9:38interview to be honest. I was like, "Oh,9:40there's an Asian guy on this channel9:41that's tatted. Like What is this?" How9:44did you How did you come up with that?9:45Or what was the inspiration?9:47>> his his tattoos are so unique and9:48interesting. I think I You didn't have9:50them They weren't complete then.9:52They were partial. Yeah.9:53>> And I think I turned He had his shirt9:54off. I think I had him turned. Is that9:56right?9:56>> Yeah. You you literally you were on your9:58knee.9:59You were like this you had your camera.10:01You're like10:03Take off your shirt.10:04>> [laughter]10:04>> I was like10:05Uh What kind of interview is this? And10:08then take it off.10:09>> [laughter]10:10>> And then you're like look over this and10:12then you you Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll turn10:13that I'll have people turn left or right10:15sometimes. And I did that with you I10:17think mainly just to10:19show [snorts] your the tattoos that were10:20finished. Cuz your other side I think10:22had been My stomach wasn't fully done.10:25That's what it was. Maybe so we we10:26turned you to hide your stomach. Yep,10:27yep, yep. And that's what we did. And10:28then the second the second interview you10:30did you had your stomach done. And I did10:31it again. So Yep, yep, yep. Your tattoos10:33are beautiful. Wow. I've seen a lot of10:35tattoos in doing 11,000 interviews.10:37Yeah. A lot of them on the streets and10:39Johnny's are probably the most10:40beautiful. Yeah, they're clean. Yeah. Um10:42shout out Victor Lee.10:44Yeah, they're beautiful. Yeah. You you10:46said something interesting about how10:47like you know it's just a mixed bag when10:49you go out there. But like But I I also10:52shoot in Santa Monica now. So I have a10:53studio in Santa Monica and I I have the10:55studio on Skid Row. And I don't I rarely10:57go to Skid Row now. Interesting. I don't10:59really go down there much anymore. And11:00how come? It's just like I want to I11:02want to change what I'm doing. I want to11:04branch out. It's just a Like I don't11:05need to do the same content over and11:07over and over and over. True. It gets11:09old for me and for the audience and11:11everything. True. You were very much11:13before you got into street interviews.11:15It was it was like corporate work,11:17right?11:17>> advertising. Yeah, so11:18>> Very slick, very perfect.11:20>> Yeah, exactly. So how did you go from11:21that and when were you inspired to be11:23like I I think I think I've always been11:25It's a combination of answers there. But11:27I think one of the Like even when I11:28lived in Chicago as a kid as a teenager11:30I remember seeing like11:31like drunks on the street with their11:34paper bag with their you know whatever11:36vodka or whatever they're drinking on11:38the street living living on a park11:40bench.11:41And I was just fascinated by that. So11:43these guys live here. I remember talking11:44to my dad about it. Like these guys just11:46live here on the street. He goes yeah,11:47this is they're just11:50Life's been rough. So I was fascinated11:52with it back then and I I can I always11:54had that kind of fascination with weird11:56dark stuff like that.11:57And uh12:00When I was doing advertising and I was12:01at my peak and everything was rolling I12:03decided to get a studio on Skid Row cuz12:05I recognized that that had a lot of that12:07kind of content.12:08>> Yeah. Huh.12:09>> That kind of that those kind of people.12:10So I was just12:12I had that studio just to shoot some12:13portraits.12:15Just portraits. Just for myself. Not12:16even for any project. Not even just I12:18was just doing it.12:19Sometimes I'll do that. Just like I'm12:21just experimenting and figuring out what12:22I'm going to do. So I did that maybe for12:24like 2 3 years.12:27Gave it up. Got a divorce. My life kind12:28of went turned you know went through a12:30washing machine.12:31And when it was all said and done12:34Um all of a sudden advertising changed.12:36The technology kicked in and everything.12:38The whole advertising industry is is12:40basically been decimated in my in my12:42opinion.12:43So it's no longer worth doing12:45advertising. So I got out of the12:46advertising gave up my studio and I'm12:47just sitting there like now what am I12:49going to do? And I thought thought about12:50it for a year or two and then I realized12:52you remember I was doing those portraits12:53down in Skid Row? That was really fun. I12:55really enjoyed that.12:57I'm not going to make any money doing12:59portraits.13:00And I had started doing interviews right13:01before I quit. Um cuz the video Canon13:04had a video camera built into their13:06still cameras. So I started doing13:07interviews down there too.13:09But I I recognized that there was13:10nothing13:12financially viable in doing13:15those that kind of work. But I I knew13:16that I enjoyed it and I figured I'll put13:18it up on YouTube and see what people13:19think. Dang. Just for myself. What year13:21was this? 2019.13:24Wow. I really honestly believe that13:2715 people might find it interesting.13:30And I didn't understand the the13:32potential that YouTube has. How many13:34interviews did you post until one really13:36smacked and which one was that13:37interview? Um I mean there I'll have to13:40look but there were some that first Cuz13:42I started in April of 2019.13:45And then I went till13:47on Christmas Eve I interview I was I was13:50leaving the studio. I did all interviews13:52all day and I was pulling away. Had my13:54cameras in the back in the in the car.13:56And I'm pulling away and and the guy13:57comes running up to me stops me.13:59Somebody I knew on the on the street. He14:01said hey I got a girl for you. I'm like14:02let me look. So14:04It was this girl who was a pro14:06prostitute on Figueroa Street. But now14:08she's on Skid Row. She was trying to get14:10out of it.14:11And uh she comes up and she just comes14:13to the window and and tells me her story14:15real quickly. This is her This was his14:17girlfriend. And it was such a good story14:19that I'm like man that's a She knows how14:21to tell a story.14:23So I14:23>> [clears throat]14:23>> parked my car and I set up again and I14:25did one more interview that day. That14:26was on Christmas Eve14:28of 2019.14:31And it was so good that I decided to14:33post it. And I wasn't going to post on14:34Christmas Day.14:36And I think what I did is I decided to14:38post hers on Christmas Day.14:41Cuz it was just so good.14:43Which seems like the wrong thing to do14:44cuz my start my14:46videos are so dark.14:48>> [laughter]14:48>> I just said I can't do this to people on14:50Christmas Day.14:51I post every day. So I just figured like14:52I'm going to give them a break on14:53Christmas Day. But I I did it again I14:55did it anyway.14:57I I I hurried up. Sometimes I can just14:58edit it really quickly and and do it all15:00and15:01pump it out really quickly. So I did and15:03uh15:05the thing took off. Not not tremendously15:08but did really really really well.15:09Better than any video I had posted yet.15:12What if up until that point what was15:13your best video and then what did that15:15one15:15>> I don't I've never looked but it15:16probably I probably have something that15:18has a few hundred thousand. Okay.15:20>> Couple hundred thousand maybe.15:22This one was like on its way to a15:24million. You could tell.15:26But she calls me15:28after like a a week or 10 days maybe15:31saying her family's giving her a hard15:32time.15:33And uh she wants me to take it down.15:35Dang.15:36>> Oh no. Which sucks. Yeah.15:37[clears throat] So15:38Like I I got to respect somebody's15:41family and their wishes like that. So15:43I'll I'll take it down.15:44>> [snorts]15:45>> And that was that.15:47Mhm. Until 2 3 weeks later she calls me15:49up and says you know what? My family put15:52that thing back up. It's all the truth.15:54So And the family it made the family15:56look really bad. So this was a girl15:58named Kelly16:00whose real name is Kiera. Q U I E R A.16:05Kiera.16:07So it's her16:08The videos probably go by both names.16:10Um but AKA uh16:13Kelly.16:14And the thing just blew up and it it it16:16If you look at the graph of my YouTube16:18my YouTube view history Yeah.16:21there's this gigantic spike16:24when I posted that video. Just gigantic16:26like 10 times bigger than the Whittakers16:28than anything. Wow. Gigantic. And that16:31video got a a million views in a week or16:33less. Yeah. Probably probably in a day.16:37And then uh16:38it just it just continued and continued.16:40So the second time I posted it I16:42recognized it was going to do well. And16:44I recognized that she needed help and16:45she was asking me for money every day16:46and all this and16:48so I I connected a GoFundMe to it. Mhm.16:51First time I'd ever done that. I was16:52thinking about doing it. And I did it on16:54on that video and and and it generated16:57$30,000 in a day. Wow. Maybe 2 days.16:5930,000.17:01And she asked me to stop it at 12,00017:04and I didn't stop it. I kept it going17:05and I kept going. So I figured she's17:07going to be asking me for more 12,00017:08doesn't go very far. Yeah. So I I let it17:11go to like 26 or 30,000 I forget. And uh17:15and then I took it down. Cuz I didn't17:17want it it was going to go to a million.17:18It it was going to17:19She'd be making money still to this day.17:21Um17:23That would be her income. And she'd17:24become reliant on that. Which is really17:26what happened anyway. Mhm. The 30,00017:28that she got17:29uh17:30she when that ran out she starts asking17:32me for money.17:33And it and17:35that that's what17:36ends these relationships very often.17:38It's like I can't be here to support17:39everybody forever. Yeah. You know.17:41That's a common theme Hallmark like that17:43you kind of help people out and then17:45Yeah, I I don't really make much I don't17:47want to promote that but I give out a17:49lot of help. Yeah.17:50>> forms. Like there's some people who are17:52helping me find people. So that17:53basically I'm giving them a job. Yep.17:55And they're they're not paying tax on17:57this. They're just street people. I pay17:59the tax on what I give them and I just18:01I'm giving them a18:03Yeah. a way to support themselves.18:05Guys, my Core of the Heart Daily app18:08where you get free devotionals every18:10single day is almost here guys. And join18:15the waitlist right now. Link in the18:17description. So if you ever struggled18:19with your spiritual walk with God my app18:21covers everything. A free daily18:23devotional tracker so you know how long18:25you've kept your streak. A Bible you can18:26highlight and annotate. Gospel Bot an AI18:29trained entirely on my teachings to18:31answer your questions anytime 24/7.18:35All of that is free. And if you want to18:37go deeper we have a members only Bible18:40class every Saturday and a group18:42mentorship where you can ask18:44personalized questions to me. To get on18:45the waitlist check the description in18:47this video. This is my life's work and18:50the best way to make God a habit in your18:51life and I can't wait to share it with18:53you guys. That's the first thing I I I18:55remember when I pulled up to your studio18:58there was like two girls off of Fig who19:00you just interviewed. It was two black19:02chicks I remember. And uh they were19:04there was already people like crowding19:06you as soon as you came out of the19:07studio.19:08>> Yeah, they they On Skid Row though they19:09were crowding him.19:11And he was just handing out money bro.19:13And I was like19:15I'm not just handing out money. Yeah.19:17But It looks like that sometimes.19:18>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you were just you19:20know19:20>> But I was probably paying somebody19:21I was But probably paying the person who19:22brought them. So I'm paying them a19:24finder's fee. Yeah.19:25And then I'm paying the girls and I19:27don't do that on the street in front of19:28everybody. But you you may have seen19:30something. I don't know what you saw.19:31But Yeah, yeah. But I'm not just out19:32there like Yeah, yeah. some crazy person19:34handing out money. No, no. But I do have19:36I do have this huge network of people19:38who find people for me. Yeah. You know,19:40there were people I hired just to keep19:42it quiet outside my studio cuz there's19:43so many people out there. He would push19:45people down the down the block so they19:47when they were talking making noise they19:49weren't making noise19:50that would affect the video. Yeah.19:52>> So I'm I'm supporting a lot of people in19:54different ways. There's a whole myriad19:56of different ways.19:57But um Yeah. Me not knowing him though,20:00just like seeing that going what the20:03>> [laughter]20:03>> Yeah, especially especially on Skid Row.20:05Right. Where there's there's no money20:07for anybody. Exactly.20:08>> of a sudden this guy I probably dumped20:10no exaggeration. I did the math. It's20:12probably close to 3 and 1/2 million20:14those first 3 years.20:16So like I'm like a million a year. Oh my20:18gosh.20:20other parts of the Yeah. Like in on20:21Figueroa Street and also in like20:23other parts of the country. Mhm. You20:25said something really interesting about20:26how like you you went out of your way to20:28help this girl and then she became20:30dependent on the money. Yeah, yeah.20:31That happens all the time. Yeah, and it20:33makes sense, right? It's like they don't20:34have They what they20:36what they lack is the parental20:39guidance or the role models to show you20:42like maybe your dad was a doctor, maybe20:44your dad was a lawyer, maybe your dad20:45had a grocery store. You see your dad or20:48your parents working.20:49Yeah. Whatever. I mean it's just you see20:51your dad working. I saw my dad work. I20:53understand that's how you support your20:54family. That's how you make a life for20:56yourself.20:56>> Yeah. These people didn't have dads.20:58They didn't have anybody. True. They21:00don't have They don't know how to make21:01money.21:02They know how to hustle and con people21:04and lie and and steal. So like you're21:07not going to fix that21:09by giving them a a leg up somewhere. Is21:11it ever tough21:12>> or an opportunity? You know, is it ever21:13tough when you want to do well for them21:16and help them and then21:17you know, the relationship sours? Yes. I21:20could tell you about 4,000 stories like21:22that.21:23And so like how does They're happening21:25this week. They're happening in today.21:27How do you manage I'm sure in the21:28beginning how you handled it then versus21:31now is completely changed. So21:33>> I've gotten a lot tougher or a lot more21:34maybe aware of what21:37they're pulling or what they're doing.21:38Yeah. And I I you know, I make this new21:40resolution21:42which uh21:43I make every year21:44to not give out money like I normally21:46do. And it's it's really just like it's21:48insane how much21:49So this year I I this January 1st I said21:52I'm going to stop this and I've done a21:53really great job. This is So it's March.21:55What are we? March 9th now?21:57>> March 9th, yeah. Uh and I've been great21:59about it this year. This is the farthest22:00I've gone. Usually it lasts about a22:01month or or a few weeks.22:03I feel like on the flip side you've also22:05completely changed people's lives where22:07you've launched their careers or helped22:10like you know, I can think of Sharp.22:12Yeah, I mean No, I mean there's a whole22:14slew Sharp22:15Cosmo22:16Johnny James Sexton. James Sexton for22:19sure.22:19>> his career, but I'm saying you No, no,22:21no, no, his social media career. I22:22probably He'll he'll admit I launched22:24that. Yeah. And he's he's done great.22:26He's just He's made for the camera.22:28Yeah.22:29>> He just is. 100%.22:30>> Um the names don't come to mind, but22:32there's there's a whole slew of people.22:33Rebecca could be a huge star. Who's22:36Rebecca?22:36>> Rebecca's a transgender22:38crystal meth addict that's on the22:40streets, but really really funny and22:42talented and smart and like22:46It's hard to describe what Rebecca is,22:47but but has tremendous potential. Could22:49be doing something really great with her22:51life, but is just22:52caught up in the streets too much. Out22:55of all the people you've met and you've22:57seen the gamut of people that take the23:00interview and they go somewhere with it23:02or it you know, doesn't affect their23:03life in any way.23:05Like23:06and also just you see heard all these23:08stories of different backgrounds. What's23:10your overall sense of humans what human23:13what true human nature is or what's your23:16kind of breakdown of like23:17>> Well, I think I think what where you're23:18getting at like we see like when you see23:21like Israel is the best example. Or23:23Rebecca is a great example.23:25You see these people like oh my god, you23:26have so much potential. You could be23:29Israel could have made23:3110 20 million dollars on only fans by23:33[clears throat] now if she just put two23:35and two together.23:37Or she could probably do something. She23:38could probably make videos of her and23:39her kids making breakfast and her doing23:41her nails and and23:43that kind of stuff getting dressed.23:44People would watch cuz people love her23:46stories especially on my Facebook23:47channel that she gets uh23:50like eight nine million views every23:52video. It's crazy.23:54But she doesn't know how to23:56do anything. Doesn't know how to get23:58anything off the ground.24:00And Rebecca's the same thing just24:02doesn't know how to24:03make one plus one equal two.24:07And24:08what we see in these kind of people is24:10we're projecting the the like we see the24:12potential. We're projecting what we24:14would do if we were given that24:15opportunity. If I had Rebecca's sense of24:17humor and talent and good looks and all24:19that24:20man, I would I would kill it. I would24:21put down the crystal meth. I would get24:23off the streets. I would get some24:24housing. I would start a podcast and24:27guaranteed Rebecca would be making24:30two three million a year. Can't24:32even keep his shoes for a day.24:35Damn. Or phone or anything.24:38Still to this day.24:40>> [snorts]24:40>> He's gone through rehab. He went through24:41you know, he went through He got24:43arrested for assaulting a cop, went to24:44rehab for a month. The the the judge24:47gave him two options. Go to jail for a24:48month or you go to rehab for a month. He24:50chose the rehab one smartly. And did his24:5230 days and ran back to the streets,24:54lost his shoes and lost his phone and24:56he's back on streets just running24:57around.24:58Dang. So we we see this the potential in25:01these people25:02but they don't see it in themselves and25:04they're just they're destined to keep25:05spinning their wheels and chasing their25:07tail. What do you think about it uh25:10causes that and what do you think would25:12truly help these people? What do you25:13think are the reasons?25:14>> Not having parents, not not having25:16unconditional love in your life, not25:17having25:19good role models. Like if you if you if25:21you if your childhood didn't have those25:24you're not going to amount to anything.25:26You know, even if your parents aren't25:27the greatest, if your parents are still25:29together and they're like you know,25:30making an an attempt, that's still light25:33years25:35past25:37not having a dad who's in in your life25:39and not having a mom who knows how to25:42do much of anything, you know.25:45It's it's really sad and that's really25:46the message I want all these videos to25:48show people. Like if I if I could make a25:50video saying you got25:51stay together as parents, do this, do25:53that, you know, love your kids all that25:55I'd get25:57500 views and that'd be the end of my25:58channel.25:59But if I do this, you know, I put out26:01thousands of interviews and and I get26:03lots of views and you know, I get to26:05make some money sometimes.26:06And it's uh26:08it's a it's a way of kind of26:10deceptively26:12spreading a message26:13of how important it is to be a good26:15parent. So true. It's the most important26:17job anybody ever does. Do you How do you26:20deal with26:21just having so many now cuz I'm you26:24know, mentoring a lot of people and I26:25kind of like interview people and just26:27help people online. How do you deal with26:30people just like dumping all that26:31trauma? I'm sure like affects you in26:33some kind of way, right? So Yeah, I26:35don't know if it does or not. I thought26:36I I thought for a long time I was tough26:38and strong.26:39But like my26:42my shoulder my left shoulder was26:43hurting, my hips are hurting, my lower26:45back and I I suspect it's not from26:47anything I did, no injury, nothing like26:48that. I think it's just from hearing so26:51many of these26:52traumatic stories26:55that eventually it's got to affect you26:56some way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.26:57>> And like the body keeps the score. Yep,26:59yep, yep.26:59>> The book it's like it's probably a27:01little bit of that. Yeah. And there's27:02probably you know, there's probably ways27:04around it therapy and talking about it27:05and27:06doing some kind of body work and all27:08that kind of stuff. Now that is super27:09interesting. If um27:12you know, if you were the mayor of LA27:14like you said, the core issue is you27:16need good parents. That's like starts27:18the foundation of hopefully giving a27:20child a better chance. But you know,27:22once they're an adult and they're in27:23this situation and they're in the27:24streets27:26are there anything that you think would27:27genuinely help these people?27:30Or is it all internal?27:33Man, I don't know. It's I've seen so27:35many of those people27:37and I've tried to help them. I've27:38sincerely tried to help them go to27:40rehab, do this, do that,27:42give them all the tools27:43to get housing, to get a job, to get27:45whatever and they run back to the drugs.27:47Yeah. And and there was a while when27:49fentanyl first started getting on the27:51scene and getting mixed up with crack27:53all the crack addicts just got wiped27:55out.27:56Cuz crack and fentanyl look identical.27:59And the dealers sometimes make mistakes28:01or maybe they do it on purpose or28:02whatever.28:03And people were just like OD'ing.28:05Norman's gone.28:06What do you mean he's gone? He just28:07died. Yeah. He you know, he's he all he28:10all he smoked was crack.28:13You don't die from crack.28:15But you do in when it's look when it's28:17fentanyl.28:18I'm not saying it can't be done. There28:19are people who have recovered and I've28:21I've interviewed a ton of them. Mhm. But28:23for the most part28:26it's so difficult.28:27For the people There's so many things28:29working against them. It's like you're28:31you're you're fighting against the28:32undertow. The undertow is pulling you28:35Yeah. backwards. What's the common28:37denominator that you see with people who28:39do overcome? I mean obviously there's a28:41lot that28:41>> It's like they they had28:44some stability in their life. They know28:46what that tastes like, what that looks28:47like, what that requires.28:49And then they just went off in a wild28:51weekend and that wild weekend turned28:52into a wild year or three or five.28:55But they remember back then what it was28:57like to have a stable life and maybe28:58they see that they would like to get29:00that back. Yeah. And they understand29:01it's going to take some discipline and29:02hard work to do it.29:04And they do it and they and they know29:06not to make that mistake again and they29:07don't do it. That's what I seem to29:11see.29:12But some people have it you know, it's a29:13genetic thing, too.29:15Where like they have a whole29:17chain of addicts in their family and29:19it's hard to shake that.29:21That is true.29:21>> That makes me think that you're kind of29:23a lucky case. You think so? Because it's29:26like you didn't have the the stable29:28family and it was way later in life29:32that you29:33you know, it was what? You're 24 25 when29:36you started when you met Pastor Kim.29:38It's like by then it's like your frontal29:40lobe is developed. Like who wants to be29:42told by an old like a older Korean man29:44who Yeah, yeah. You speak English on29:46what to do, when to get up, clean29:47toilets, you know what I'm saying? He's29:49literally like scrub toilets and I'm29:50like, why? Like, what the hell? He was29:53teaching me discipline and things like29:54that and I didn't know, obviously. I had29:55no no respect for authority. And um I29:58had to like wrestle with them a lot and30:00I realized he was training all of these30:02things or un- untraining a lot of things30:04that I had, you know, learned. And so30:07that that is true. I didn't think about30:08it like that.30:08>> Sometimes you're just young and stupid.30:10True, that's true.30:12>> and you think you know everything and30:13and you just don't want to Yeah.30:14>> listen to anybody older than you.30:16That's facts.30:17>> I see a lot of that. Were drugs ever a30:19thing for you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did30:23coke, meth. Did a bunch of stuff.30:25Drinking.30:26>> Yeah.30:27Yeah.30:29I think that's pretty interesting.30:31For you, obviously, you know, you have30:33your own idea of what the cure could be.30:35Mhm.30:36But30:37I also see a lot of similarities of what30:40he was saying of like, you have to let30:41people come to the end of themselves.30:43You can You know, he's handing them30:45money, trying to help them get off the30:46street, whatever it is and they still30:49right? Yeah. He gave 30,000, used the30:51whole 30,000 GoFundMe and then still at30:53the end was like, "Let me have more."30:55So30:57is is there a lot of similarities to you30:58where you kind of watch someone and you31:01kind of know like, "There's nothing I31:02can say or do where31:04>> Yeah. Yeah, I've seen people where like31:06you31:07it's not like31:08>> [sighs]31:09>> I I I for me I've noticed that people,31:11if they can't think outside of31:13themselves, like if they can't relate to31:16other people, if they can't like if they31:18look at everything as a come up or like31:20a hustle, they're going to stay stuck in31:22that. Because if you only think about31:23yourself, you'll you'll only be by31:25yourself. Right? I think as human beings31:27we have to naturally think about other31:30people and connect, right? Like31:32like I was mentoring this girl. She was31:34super messed up and she got pregnant. I31:37guess she slept with somebody. She31:39doesn't even know who the father is. She31:40got pregnant, but there was like a heart31:42that entered her. It was like, "I want31:44to take care of a31:46my my baby." And she would try to quit31:49all the time. All of our one-on-ones31:51was, "I relapsed. I relapsed. I31:52relapsed. I relapsed." But when she had31:54this kid she just thought about the kid31:57and she's like, "This isn't fair to the31:59kid." And that literally stopped her.32:01Like other than that, it was like, "Ah,32:04why would I stop? That man's just going32:05to leave me anyways. Like I'll just do32:07what I got to do." And so I think when32:09you start to think about other people32:11more than yourself, then it becomes very32:14I guess almost easier or you have at32:16least something you can anchor into be32:18like, "This isn't just for me." If I'm32:20doing it for myself, I'm I'm, you know,32:22it can work out, but if you're already,32:24I guess, compromised like mentally,32:27you're not going to think clearly for32:28yourself, right? But if you think about32:30other people and you're like "This32:32baby's innocent.32:34Why would I pass down all of these32:36things to them so I could get high and32:38be happy?" Like she literally would say32:39that. Like I I just want this kid to32:42have something that I never had. And32:44that's all it took for her, you know?32:46And she It's been almost 2 years now.32:48Baby's healthy. She's like off of it.32:51She still struggles with like drinking32:53or like smoking cigarettes, but that's32:55like the thing that they replace it32:57with, right? It's better than to do that32:58than to like do straight-up meth. She33:00was like hitting the pookie all the33:01time. So it, you know, I think that's33:04what I what I see. People have to come33:06to the end of themselves, but usually33:08it's for thinking about other people,33:09too.33:10You know, that's that's kind of how it33:12was even with me. I deal with all these33:14people and I'm like, "Dang, I get33:15ridiculed online." Me and Mark were33:17talking about this where it's like you33:19know, the if you want to have a bad day,33:21read the comments, right? Like33:23literally. You got that from Joe Rogan,33:24right? And so If you want to ruin your33:26day, just just read the comments.33:27>> Literally. And so I33:30There's a lot of people that they don't33:32want to listen. Um they want you to kind33:35of just do what they want. And then you33:37could do 100 things for them, right?33:39That one thing you don't do boom, they33:41switch on you. Right? So a lot of us33:43kind of ex- experience this, but for me,33:45the way that I can keep going is to33:47think about other people and go, "You33:48know what? I was like that with my33:50pastor where I literally wanted to leave33:52the church. He tried to like correct me33:54and I I thought it was like he was33:57against me, but he was really for me. He33:58was team me the whole time. And through34:00that I was able to learn like, "Oh my34:02gosh, I have to also pass this down. I34:04have to think about other people. I have34:05to help other people, too." Not in a way34:07that enables them cuz you got to draw34:09boundaries, obviously. But there's a way34:11where it's like that person just needs34:13that little push and you you get to the34:15position where you can read a person and34:16go, "I think they're genuine. Like this34:19person's struggling and this person's34:21manipulating. There's a difference34:22between the two." You know what I mean?34:23So34:24Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think I think that's34:26right on the money. Like when you start34:28doing things for others34:30that's how it sticks. Yep. Cuz plenty of34:32people will get clean and they're good.34:33All right, I'm I I went through the34:35rehab and I'm all good, but then they'll34:36they'll relapse in no time. Guys, daily34:38devotionals are back. Every morning I'll34:40send you a devotional that I personally34:42write, rooted in scripture, to help you34:44with your spiritual walk with God and34:47make the gospel a habit in your life.34:49There's nothing more powerful than34:50starting your day with His Word. Join34:52over 100,000 others for your free daily34:55devotional. Sign up with your email34:56using the link in the description. My34:58hope's to help you guys grow with your35:00spiritual life each and every day.35:02And we experience that, too. Like we can35:04let stuff happen all the time when it35:05just affects us. Like we'll push things35:07off, but then when we realize that we're35:08doing stuff for other people or other35:10people rely on us, it's like a such a35:11lock-in moment where it's like, "Okay, I35:13have to lock in cuz this isn't just35:15about me anymore."35:16>> Yeah. But yeah, talking about people35:17switching up all the time, I'm wondering35:18if you've had any issues out on Skid35:20Row. Like I think of it as like this35:22scary place that I couldn't even walk35:24through. Like I'm curious if you've ever35:26had someone kind of switch on you or35:28Yeah, I've had a lot of stuff like that.35:30I I try I try not to dwell on it, but35:32I've I've been I've had people pull guns35:34on me. I've I've been robbed before. Had35:36my studio broken into when I'm not35:37there. I try not to go at night. Sure. I35:40would I would be down there at night35:41sometimes, but What is night? Like35:43sundown? Like literally?35:44>> when when dark?35:45>> Yeah. You just don't go down there.35:46Yeah. I mean I'm not saying you're going35:48to something's going to happen, but if35:50you're looking for something to happen,35:51go down to Skid Row at night. Totally.35:53Go to MacArthur Park at night.35:54>> Oh, for sure.35:56That Yoshinoya? Yeah. Yeah. I [laughter]35:58feel so bad for the manager who asked36:00for the night shift manager. That place36:02is is is I mean, I don't know what the36:03food is like. I've never been to a36:04Yoshinoya, but36:06that whole parking lot36:07>> Yeah, yeah. is evil. Yeah. Or actually36:10the alley behind it. Right. The alley36:11behind it is is like I defy you to walk36:14that alley.36:15>> [laughter]36:15>> That's the craziest scene. That's the36:17craziest scene I've ever seen. Like it's36:19literally like one time we saw like four36:21guys all leaning on each other in36:23different angles because of The36:25fentanyl. Yeah, on the fentanyl and then36:28in the in the parking lot, it's just36:30hordes of people just smoking whatever36:32out in the open. Like you see the pipes36:34and36:34>> by two different gangs. So depending on36:37Really? that, it's just it's it's it's36:39it's such a terrible, toxic place. Well,36:41I'm just wondering you've never been36:42like backed down from Skid Row. People36:43are like, "Get out of here. We don't36:45want you anymore."36:46>> That's that's the the money that I36:47talked about that I spent early on.36:49That's what kind of solidified me36:51in the into these communities that I'm36:53at where people really kind of36:55they're not going to chase somebody36:56who's being generous with what they want36:58most.36:59>> True. So Yeah.37:00>> but I knew going into it that that that37:03investment was going to make this all37:04possible. And that's why when I see37:06other people saying, "Oh, I I like what37:07Soft White Underbelly does. I want to do37:09what he does."37:10I just know you're not as stupid as I am37:12to37:13>> [laughter]37:13>> to invest that kind of money. You were37:15saying You were saying $100 minimum, uh37:17sometimes 10 interviews a day and you've37:19done 11,000 interviews, $100 minimum.37:22I'm like, there's definitely some37:23serious investment there. Like you got37:25>> but now most people come to me I don't37:27pay at all. Right, right.37:28>> Be- because the honest truth of our new37:31world is that being on a platform that37:33has 7 million subscribers on Facebook, 737:35million on on YouTube almost37:38that's a that's that's a commodity.37:40Absolutely.37:41>> And if you want to promote your band or37:42your podcast or your clothing line or37:45you're just yourself, being on a podcast37:47like that is going to make people jump.37:48Absolutely. I I've talked had a37:50conversation with a guy the other day37:52and he's like37:55you know, somebody gave him my name37:56said, "You should You should tell your37:57story on Soft White Underbelly." So he37:58calls me. He doesn't know who I am and38:00he's like feeling me out, asking me some38:02questions. I'm He goes, "How many uh38:04subscribers do you have?" I go, like38:07like 7 million on Facebook and almost 738:08million on YouTube. And the phone just38:11goes silent for 30 seconds.38:12>> [laughter]38:13>> I thought he I thought he dropped the I38:15thought he lost the call. He goes, "How38:17many?" And I go, "Almost 7 million on38:18both Facebook and YouTube." And he goes,38:20"I'll be there. When can I come in?"38:22Yeah, yeah. Can I Can I come in this38:24weekend? I'm like And nowadays people38:26pay you for that platform. It's like38:28Yeah, yeah. I guess you could, but I I38:30I'm just38:31all I'm trying to do is create a38:33a conduit between you and and the the38:35story that you have and the and the the38:37world that's out there.38:38>> Yeah. And so and so what kind of38:40different people are you finding in38:41Santa Monica now that's not38:43>> live in Santa Monica. Or or where do you38:44stay in the No, the reason I have the38:46studio in Santa Monica is cuz it's safer38:48and I felt really bad when I started38:49bringing like Johnny was almost like38:51this, but now I interview a ton of38:53people who are38:55clean. They don't have anything to do38:56with drugs. They're they have38:57interesting stories that don't involve39:00the streets, drugs, prostitution, gangs,39:02[clears throat] any of that kind of39:03stuff, which is all Skid Row or South39:05Central Figueroa Street. Yeah. Uh39:07these stories are more like your mom and39:09dad. Right, totally. Well, they're in39:11Santa Monica. No, I'm just kidding. No,39:13but but like regular people. And and39:14most of them Right. uh email me and they39:16they they fly out on their own dime from39:19>> Really? wherever they're at wherever39:20they're at to my studio.39:22Wow. And and very often they'll they'll39:24fly in, do the interview and and I say,39:25"So39:27how many days you here?" I'm like, "Oh,39:28I'm going back to the airport right39:29now."39:29Wow. They just flew out just to do the39:31interview and they leave. That's39:32happened so many times. Has there been39:34an interview that you wish you could39:35have put out, but didn't?39:38There was the39:39the the I forget the guy's name. He was39:41an an a necrophiliac He was a39:44necrophile, is that what it is? Where he39:46>> dead bodies?39:47>> No, he has sex with dead bodies.39:48>> Yeah. That was that was a hell of an39:49interview and he he talked about that,39:51but I had to take it down like39:52instantly.39:53It was it was up for maybe a day or half39:55a day.39:56>> Why? Guidelines or39:58>> No, he he was getting so much hate from40:00people.40:01I can imagine. I think to to this day40:03he's still kind of dealing with that.40:04>> Dang, that's crazy.40:05>> Even though it was only up for less than40:06a day, but he you know He asked you to40:09take it down?40:09>> People take my content and they put it40:11on their platforms. It's out there if40:12you really look for it. Yeah. Was he40:14asking to take it down? He asked me to40:15take it down, which I did. Would you40:17have left it up? For why? Why I mean40:19why? If if he didn't ask like40:21>> yeah. I mean I post every day and I40:22leave them up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't40:24take down videos unless somebody says,40:26"Hey, I'm going to lose my kids because40:27I talked about how I'm40:29Mhm. doing whatever. Totally. You know40:31how you you interviewed at least early40:33on a lot of gang members?40:34>> Yeah. Have you ever had anybody40:36>> Still do, but let's say somebody from40:38like the big dogs, right? Who are like40:41mafiosos or some come to you and40:42threaten you like, "Hey, we don't want40:44you to like40:45>> never they're they're40:46>> That's crazy.40:47>> cool. Like like Sammy the Bull Yeah,40:49yeah. A lot of the big, you know,40:51Michael Franzese, a lot of these big40:53heavy hitters. Yeah. No, I I think the40:56world has changed now. Right.40:57>> I I have one of these guys who I've done40:59a bunch of a handful of interviews with.41:01He has a Netflix series coming out.41:04Really?41:04>> Because of my Wow.41:06>> Because of the interviews he did on my41:07channel.41:09So he's he's another one that we talked41:10about earlier who just like this podcast41:13that I have is like it's like a vehicle41:15for people to Yeah.41:16>> If if they have the41:18the wherewithal and they and they have41:19their head and heart in the right place,41:20they they can make41:22turn it into money.41:23To be honest, like I met Johnny, went41:25back to church because of that41:27interview. So Cool. Yeah, that's I mean41:29there's all kinds of good that can come41:30from what I'm doing.41:32Yeah.41:32>> it and I get emails every day from41:33people telling me that and I was like So41:35I get people saying, "Oh, you're this.41:37You're bad. You're a bad guy. You you41:39you you murder three-year-olds or41:40whatever I do. Yeah.41:42They seem to think I'm a a devil, but I41:44know damn well what I what I'm actually41:46like I'm a harder judge of my behavior41:47than anybody that's in the in the41:49audience. So I know41:52very clearly what I'm doing41:54Yeah.41:54>> and the good it's providing. It's also41:56doing some harm to [clears throat] the41:57the alcoholic or the drug addict who's41:59on the streets and makes them look bad42:01and maybe it's going to be difficult for42:02him to get his together, but if he42:05ever starts to get his together and42:07and says, "Hey, can you take that video42:08down?" I've done that42:10many, many times. Mhm. But if you're42:12looking to make money and and you want42:14to tell your story, I'll do it.42:16And that video will live on my channel42:17for until you42:19need it to be42:20taken down because you're going to lose42:21your job or something. Yeah. Most of42:23these most of these people don't don't42:25ever get jobs. I'm sure dealing with so42:27many of these people42:29um people have probably passed away, you42:31know, being in in drugs or like losing42:33their battle to drugs. Does that ever42:35make you feel any type of way like42:38especially having a cuz it seems like42:39you have a relationship or at least a42:41conversation with these people. You kind42:43of get to know them. Like we have a42:44relationship42:44>> yeah, yeah. I mean like there were some42:46where like when they passed away42:47>> Yeah, like does it make you42:48>> been plenty that passed away that I42:50Yeah. was close to. I'm not I'm not like42:52close to them having dinner with them,42:54hanging out with them, but I know them42:55from Skid Row and I I would see them42:58whether whoever Yeah. However I knew43:01them Does it ever affect you in any type43:03of way like43:04>> always I mean death is sad. I mean it43:05is, but I'm I'm43:07I'm not43:09connected with these people. I'm just43:11like they're acquaintances. Yeah, yeah.43:13So like when Norman died, that hit me43:14pretty hard cuz Norman was a cool dude.43:16He was43:17really great storyteller, really great43:18communicator. I loved bringing him in43:21for interviews.43:22And then one day he just43:24he's gone. Dang. Just like that.43:26Crazy.43:27>> That's tough.43:28Um So like your measure in these43:29interviews are are43:32they have to have a good story and it43:33naturally comes out, but there's also43:36I'm sure you have a little bit of magic43:37sauce of how you get people comfortable43:39or you're able to kind of really get43:41them to be cuz like they're just meeting43:43you one time.43:44>> Yeah. I don't I don't know what I mean I43:46have something I've heard people say43:47that they oh43:48I've never told my story like that43:49before.43:50I make them feel comfortable. I don't43:52even know what the hell I do.43:53>> [laughter]43:54>> I don't know what I do.43:55It's almost like it's almost like I'm43:56giving them roofies or something.43:58>> [laughter]43:59>> When they come in but I'm doing I don't44:00do anything. I'm just I'm just Yeah. I I44:02recognized this before I even started44:04this stuff on Underbelly that I had this44:05cuz44:06I remember like meeting like my sister's44:08friend who's who's boyfriend was a44:10biker, like a Hells Angels biker. Yeah.44:12And like the guy he starts sit down,44:14talks to me and I'm willing to listen44:15and he just44:16starts unloading all his crap on like44:20Why am I44:22How why are you my my buddy now? I don't44:24I but it's happened a lot in my life. So44:27Yeah.44:27>> I don't know what I have, but I have44:28something that makes people comfortable.44:29Yeah. I think I think you're a super44:32good listener. Like I remember from my44:33interview44:35he just literally asked like two44:36questions. He's like, "What's your name?44:38Where you from? Where'd you grow up?"44:40I'm saying [laughter] That's all that's44:40necessary sometimes.44:42And then I just kept going, right? But44:43it was it was more of like I could just44:45see like44:47at least in my experience you listen44:49well and you're just you're you're44:50genuinely interested in allowing people44:53to express themselves. I think that's44:55kind of your number44:55>> I love hearing people tell stories and44:57especially if you're a good storyteller44:58like you are, it's just gold. I just sit45:00back and like get out of the way. Yeah,45:02yeah.45:03Which I think a lot of people don't have45:05that.45:06Uh when we're doing podcasts with45:07people, obviously they have like their45:08set you know, questions, but there's45:11this feeling that I've been with other45:13people that I haven't felt on your you45:15know,45:16uh on your channel is that they tend to45:18kind of want to like flex their45:20knowledge or like what they feel and45:22like they want to tell their story and45:23kind of like relate, which is just how45:25human beings are naturally.45:27With you, you're just like genuinely45:29like dead locked into everything that I45:30was saying. Yeah. And I remember that,45:32you know, so I just45:34That45:34>> I I I I I I can't add anything to your45:37story that's going to make it better.45:38>> True.45:39>> There's nothing I can interject that's45:41going to be like45:42my knowledge of the streets is like I45:44don't know about the45:46>> [laughter]45:47>> I'm from suburban Chicago. I don't know45:48 about this world that you're45:49talking about. I'm just like you want to45:51share the story, just go ahead. I'm not45:53going to interrupt at all.45:54You know, I don't I don't try to be an45:56expert in anything. I've never done45:57drugs. I've never45:58Never hired prostitutes. I've never got46:01involved in gangs and guns and46:03selling drugs and all that So I46:05just stay out of the way. But I'm46:06fascinated by all these lifestyles. You46:08never Well, have you drank?46:10>> Like gotten drunk or smoked weed? I've46:12I've drank. I have drank I have ingested46:14alcohol before, but I don't do that.46:17And why just46:18It se it seems like you have46:19>> not my thing. I like feeling good in the46:20morning. Yeah. You know, I'll I'll feel46:22better in the morning if I don't drink.46:24But even when you're younger like46:25everyone's kind of46:25>> Yeah, I know. I remember there was there46:26were times where I'd be whatever. I was46:29out with friends and I would drink.46:30Never never really got too drunk. But no46:32marijuana either, right?46:33>> I've never smoked pot.46:35Really? Wow. Yeah.46:37It was46:38>> bragging. I mean it's not I'm I'm not46:39proud of it. It's just not my thing.46:41Yeah.46:42I feel like46:43>> I I'm not perfect though. I I have my46:44vices, too. I like I like46:46I like46:47risky behavior. I like gambling.46:49>> [laughter]46:50>> With with projects like like spending46:52that kind of money on a on a project46:54that has no potential to make money is46:56stupid.46:57That's just downright stupid, but it46:59turned out to be okay this time.47:01And and wait, so you had no YouTube47:02>> Even a blind squirrel gets an acorn once47:03in a while. Yeah, that's right. Broken47:05clock right twice a day. Did you have47:07any YouTube or social media experience47:10before going on No, I still don't. I47:11still don't know I still don't47:12know47:13>> I would disagree with that. No, I mean47:15I've learned some things just by bumping47:17my head, but no, I don't I don't know47:19anything about social media.47:20>> Really? I mean you came from a marketing47:22background. So you kind of knew how to I47:23have a I have a sensibility for what is47:27what is cool and what's not and what47:28what the audience will respond to and47:30what what won't. Right.47:32>> won't. So I do have that. And did you47:34have any like technical background? Like47:36why online? Cuz everyone else was doing47:38it? Technical background of what?47:40>> Like how did you even get a get like the47:41cameras going that obviously you're47:43taking portraits, but like just posting47:45to YouTube, it's not like the easiest47:46thing out there.47:47>> have a video editing. You said you were47:48editing yourself. Do you still edit47:50yourself? Yeah, that's crazy.47:53We're hiring, guys. Core the Heart is47:54hiring, but listen carefully. We're not47:57just building a company, we're building47:58one of the fastest growing Christian48:00communities in the world. In just a year48:01and a half, this community has grown to48:03over 3 million strong and we're nowhere48:05near done. Our mission is simple, but48:07massive. To build the best tools and48:09resources to help anyone in the world48:11get closer to God. Our first immediate48:13goal is to get 100 million people into48:14heaven. So when we say we're hiring,48:17understand this. We're not looking for48:18employees, we're looking for48:20mission-driven A-players that want to48:21change the world. Our criteria is48:23simple. Don't show us what you could do,48:25show us what you've already mastered.48:26Like if you want to be the short form48:27editor, show me the millions of views48:29you've gotten on short form. If you want48:30to be the podcast producer, show me the48:32shows that you've successfully produced.48:34We've learned the hard way not to hire48:35off potential, we just want to hire off48:37of peer experience. People who have48:38already proven that they can perform at48:40their skill set at the highest level. We48:42have jobs available in many different48:44departments. Media and content, live48:46events and marketing. We also have48:48remote jobs and LA-based jobs available.48:50If you're an A-player that has mastered48:52their craft and wants to do something48:53that glorifies God, then please head to48:55the link in our description and check48:57out the job board. And lastly, if you're48:58an absolute beast at something and you49:00don't see it on the job board, please49:02reach out. I mean, you know, you might49:03be able to do it for us, it might work49:04out. So if you're amazing at something,49:06you don't see the perfect job49:07description, just reach out. Tell us49:08what you're good at, maybe it'll work.49:10>> Genuinely, I can't do this without a49:11team. So I'm very thankful for anyone49:13who supports the mission. I look forward49:15to hearing from you guys. If you don't49:16mind me asking, how old are you? 66. I49:19just turned 66. What? You were very49:21young. Yeah, what's your secret? You49:23don't drink, you don't smoke. What do49:24you eat? Uh I take care of my health. I49:27try to sleep really well.49:29You know you what it is? I really think49:31and Johnny's the same way. I think you49:32just stay I'm really positive. Mhm. I I49:35through my life in a with a really49:37positive attitude. Yeah. You know, a lot49:39of people go through life and like, "I'm49:40not going to get this job." Or like,49:42"Life sucks." Or "This is too49:43expensive." Or "This is too d-49:45I always look at things very positively49:47where it's like anything is possible.49:48Mhm. Yeah. So,49:51everybody has some tough things they go49:53through,49:54but if you still believe that something49:55good will come eventually to you,49:58you just have a better a brighter50:00outlook. And that that positive attitude50:02tends to keep you50:04it's less stressful on you. For sure.50:06Than being negative. When you're50:08negative, you're50:09you're you're going to look50:10a certain way.50:12And if you're if you go through life a50:14little lighter and easier and50:16thinking that things are going to work50:17out, which they usually do, not always,50:20but they usually do for me,50:22then your your wear and tear is less.50:24Mhm. Wow. Well, it's Well, it's working.50:26So, everyone listen up. Take notes.50:29No, it's true. I'm not I'm not perfect,50:31you know, but uh50:34a positive attitude goes a long way.50:36Yeah.50:37If there was anybody you can interview,50:39like who's on your dream interview list50:41right now?50:41>> Oh, I've got a list on my phone. Um50:44The The one person I would really have50:46loved to have interviewed50:48and never got a chance to, and he may50:49not have ever done it anyway, with50:50especially with a podcast like50:52a platform like mine, but like Reverend50:54Angley, who was a50:56a uh50:57TV evangelist. Mhm. I think he was in51:00Indiana he was based. I grew up in51:01Chicago, so he'd be on the TV all the51:03time. And I recognized the first time I51:05saw him,51:06this guy is gold. Why? Oh. Cuz he's just51:09selling pure51:12unadulterated51:14>> [laughter]51:16>> Wow.51:17>> And he he does it in a way that's so51:20flashy and so51:22like51:23people are buying this51:25Like you see the audience, he's doing51:26this in the in the arenas. He He would51:28He would, you know, travel around the51:29the country doing arenas.51:31And people are like fainting and being51:33healed and you know, he'd put your hand51:35on the forehead and then they'd heal and51:37it was like51:39this51:39this sells?51:42Like this stuff, I would love to51:43interview him with my style, which is51:45very straight and very accepting and51:46very unjudge- non-judgmental. Yeah,51:49true. So, I would just like let him51:52spiel his51:55without any kind of reaction to it. Like51:57I wouldn't question him on51:59like, "You're not healing anything."52:01>> [laughter]52:02>> You know?52:03>> [snorts]52:03>> I would I would52:05love nothing more than to interview But52:08But But I also like,52:10you know, there are so many people that52:11are alive and around now. I mean, I'd52:13love to do like some Catholic nuns. I'd52:14like to do different religious sects52:17that are out there.52:18I think that would be interesting just52:20to hear their different attitudes and52:21beliefs.52:23Just what their lifestyles were like as52:24kids and how they are going through52:26life. And I love contrasting that52:28to maybe a prostitute who's on the52:30street and like two women52:32both the same age who live lives that52:35never ever overlap.52:36>> Yeah.52:37That's true.52:38Who else?52:40Uh52:41Yeah, you got the list.52:43Because what I'm also noticing is like52:46you're deep in this like weird culture52:48web that nobody like who who finds the52:50Whitakers? You know what I'm saying?52:51>> Yeah, yeah. No, I do. Exactly. So, I'm52:54that's my strength. My I'm not a good52:56interviewer. Uh I'm a mediocre52:58interviewer. I'm just a curious person52:59who like, you know, you know, what was53:01your family like growing up? Doesn't53:02take brain surgery to ask that question.53:04But also I'm not good at this. You found53:06James Sexton. Yeah, but so that's that's53:08what I'm saying. I have the I have this53:10knack and I don't know where it comes53:11from or what it53:13how to create it, but I know when I saw53:15James Sexton,53:16I know that guy is gold. And I called53:18him up and next thing I know I'm doing53:19an interview with him. Yeah. The53:21Whitakers, I looked long and hard for53:23that or something like that. And I know53:24where to look for it and I know who to53:26ask to find it. And I looked long and53:28hard and eventually I found it.53:29>> But what was So, even with the53:30Whitakers, what was And I'm re- I'm53:32relentless as a53:33Yeah, okay. I I don't give up. But even53:36for the Whitakers, you were like, "I53:38want to find an inbred family?"53:40And where did that come from?53:40>> Yeah, basically, yeah.53:42Simple as that.53:43Cuz I know that exists. Wow. And I53:46probably won't do53:47any more. I mean, I might, but I53:49probably won't do any more Whitaker53:52interviews,53:53you know, videos with them. They're just53:54They're just53:55They all got separated now. So, the kid53:57the young the Ray, Timmy, and Lorraine53:59are in a in a in a nursing home. So,54:01they're separated from from the rest of54:03the family. And even Betty doesn't live54:05at home anymore. So, they're all54:07separated now. Wow. So, what like what54:09am I going to do? Yeah.54:10>> Like a video of what?54:12Of all these people that have been54:13separated? It's like it's impossible54:14now. So,54:16the you know, I'm probably not going to54:17go back there, but I guarantee you54:19there's another family that's54:21equally interesting. Yeah. Very54:23different. They won't be the same. They54:24won't be inbred hillbillies, but they'll54:27be54:28a methed-out family from Georgia or from54:31Alabama or Texas or something that'll be54:35gold. It's just fascinating.54:37>> I'm really good at54:38sniffing that out. It's just fascinating54:40that your mind went there, you know? You54:42were like, "I want to find an inbred54:43family. That'd be an interesting story."54:45>> It It was literally the best day54:47of my life.54:49To this day, I've said this many times.54:51It was the best day of my life. The Not54:52Not the day I interviewed them, but the54:54day54:55I photographed them and discovered them.54:57Wow. Best day of my Best day of my life.54:59I was I was the hap- I was the most55:00fulfilled55:03I'd ever been.55:04How did that start? So, you said the55:06thought came and then where do you even55:07begin your search? Uh we were55:10just driving My my assistant Axel and I55:12were driving through uh55:13Kentucky and West Virginia, which is55:15probably a great place to look for that55:17kind of thing. Western Western West55:19Virginia and Eastern Kentucky.55:21If you go into the little nooks and55:22crannies, you're going to find some55:23crazy55:25And we did on our own, but55:27uh I was at a gas station. I met a met a55:29cop.55:30Told him what I'm doing and he goes, "Oh55:31man, I could show you some crazy55:34And I go, "Well, I'd love to Like if you55:36want to make some extra money, I'll I'll55:38You don't have to pay me anything. Just55:39meet me here at 3:00. I get off at at55:423:00 or 2:30 or whatever it is. Meet me55:43here at 3:00." So, I meet him at 3:0055:45and he took us to a few places that were55:47pretty pretty interesting.55:49>> [laughter]55:49>> Like gold. Give Give Give us some55:51details. Like what was the first place55:52and like Well, it it was it was a woman.55:57You You need to see the photo. It's It's55:59not It's55:59I haven't done a56:00interview with her. I just did photos.56:02For my uh my book Created Equal, which56:04is out of print, but I think there's a56:06new the the publisher Schilt is putting56:08out a second edition of it. So, it will56:10be hopefully coming out again, I've56:12heard. Um but there's images of the this56:14image. This It's a woman with her56:17child who was probably uh56:20delivered in a way that it didn't go to56:21They didn't go to hospitals to deliver56:23the baby. So, the baby probably had56:25oxygen cut off to its brain for too56:26long. So, there's brain damage or56:28something happened like this where the56:30There's a lot of brain damage and the56:31kid is clearly affected. Defected. Yeah,56:35whatever you Whatever the word Whatever56:36the polite word is, cuz56:38the words I want to use are not56:39politically correct.56:41And And so, back to my channel, when I56:43started it, one one of my goals, and56:44that's why people are like, "Oh, this56:46This is like this guy's doing56:47things that are like56:48uncool or whatever." My goal with Soft56:50White Underbelly was to be politically56:52incorrect.56:53My goal was to to be in politically56:56incorrect.56:57That's the number one goal. That's my56:58number one aim. So, when people give me57:00a hard time for like, "Oh, you're57:02exploiting drug addicts." I'm57:03Yeah, I am.57:05>> [laughter]57:05>> Yeah, I am, but I'm also doing a lot of57:07good as well. I'm also57:10teaching other people like like this is57:12what happens when you don't raise your57:14kids right. This is what happens when57:15you around with drugs. This is what57:17happens when you give in to peer57:19pressure. This is what happens when you57:24you know, you don't walk a straight57:26line. I don't feel like it's ex- So,57:28where where was I going? So, back back57:29I'm telling you multiple stories here.57:31Uh57:32So, we this cop took us to this holler57:36as it's called. It's like a little like57:37an area between two like mountains.57:40A little canyon that people will live57:41in. And uh57:43there was this mom who57:46It's hard to describe.57:47It's hard to describe what she looked57:48like.57:50Like a like a bulldog as a human.57:53And I just took did a portrait of them57:54together. But But57:56while I was doing this, there was a guy57:58and and Axel, my assistant, points out58:00that there's a guy on the porch next to58:02me who just pulled out his rifle and58:04he's like standing there watching me.58:06Damn.58:07Yeah, so I have to deal with that while58:08I'm trying to take a photo.58:11Cuz some- sometimes what I do when when58:12you're when you're interviewing or58:13photographing these kind of58:15people, you will end up in situations58:17that are just Yeah. hairy. And I just58:19told Axel, just get out of here. Just go58:21sit in the car.58:22I don't want you getting hurt.58:24I'm I'm willing to58:26risk it, but I don't I don't want to58:27risk anyone. I don't want to have to58:29call his wife and say he got shot.58:31So, I I had him get out of there and he58:34let me just do my thing. And it worked58:35out.58:37It worked out. That's where That's where58:37the money comes in handy. Because I'm58:39generous with money,58:41then no one's going to com- complain and58:43say,58:43"He's He's photographing my58:46my son."58:47Or me or or anybody. Like they're58:49they're they're going to be like, "Yeah,58:50he's fine.58:51Let him do his thing." So, then you meet58:53that lady and then how did it lead to I58:55I told her I wanted to photograph her58:56and her son together. And And58:58it took some work, but we got it to59:00happen. Wow. Cuz I can't go in59:02interviewing an underage kid59:04without the parents' consent.59:06People [clears throat] People get all59:07upset when I interviewed these underage59:09kids that are prostitutes on Fig.59:12They don't realize I have to do this59:13through the parents. Wow.59:14>> Like you can't just do that.59:16They're underage. Like I don't want to59:17go to prison. Yeah. So, you had to do59:19You got to get the parents' approval.59:21And the parents approve it those times,59:23yeah? Well, that's where sometimes money59:25comes in handy.59:26Sheesh.59:28Yeah. So, so I It's crazy. I I burn59:30through money like59:31like this. But I'm But I do it in the59:33name of59:34trying to get these messages and stories59:36out there cuz people will learn from59:37them. Cuz if you see a 13-year-old59:39prostitute, you're going to59:41you know, if if you're a simpleton,59:42you're going to look at that story and59:43go59:44you're interviewing a 13-year-old59:45prostitute. What the the matter59:47with you?59:47If you have a little more d-59:49d-59:50awareness,59:51I'm not going to say mean things. If you59:53if if your mind works differently,59:54you're going to see, oh wow, sharing59:56this story is going to show how this59:58happens so that others can maybe avoid1:00:00it. So maybe a parent1:00:02a father will stay with his with the1:00:04the mother of his kid1:00:06to just be there for his kid even though1:00:08he's maybe not1:00:11in love with the the mother anymore, but1:00:12he's1:00:13you know, just doing it for the kids,1:00:15which will help that that kid or his1:00:17child grow up to be a better human.1:00:20You're 100% right. All those videos, the1:00:22through line for me was like, wow, I'm1:00:24lucky that I had two parents. Even1:00:26though I feel like, you know, however I1:00:28felt about my childhood or whatever it1:00:30was, I'm like, I'm so lucky.1:00:32So even if your parents weren't perfect,1:00:33at least you had two parents. That's1:00:35that's1:00:37puts you head and shoulders above the1:00:38rest of the1:00:39the world. Facts.1:00:41Yeah. So so I I I've just I'm really1:00:45aware of how1:00:47>> [laughter]1:00:48>> in- incorrect my politically incorrect1:00:50my my1:00:52videos are, but that was the goal. So1:00:54did that police officer introduce you to1:00:56the Whittakers?1:00:57>> Yeah. No. So not on that day.1:00:59Actually, what happened shortly after1:01:00that shoot with the woman and her and1:01:02her son,1:01:03uh1:01:05it was spring in West Virginia and when1:01:07the rains come, they just come and it1:01:09pours. And I when I say pour, the1:01:11hardest rain you can possibly imagine,1:01:14just like and and all the equipment1:01:16got soaking wet and the strobes I was1:01:18using to take the photos stopped stopped1:01:21working. So we just said, look, I got to1:01:22leave. I I'm in West Virginia. There's1:01:24no fixing this. Right.1:01:25>> Let's go back to LA. We'll regroup and1:01:26I'll come back in a week or two, which1:01:28is exactly what we did. When we came1:01:29back, he said, make sure you bring video1:01:32cameras.1:01:33And I'm just like, I don't do video. So1:01:34I I didn't.1:01:36If if I had if I had, then Soft White1:01:39Underbelly would have started1:01:41whatever1:01:4215 20 years earlier. Mhm. Oh.1:01:46>> That would yeah, it would have started1:01:47back in1:01:47>> This is a crazier story.1:01:49>> Yeah, it would it would it if if I had1:01:50done it if I had done what the cop asked1:01:52me to do1:01:53and shot video of the Whittakers,1:01:55I would have posted that video on1:01:56YouTube. I don't I don't know if YouTube1:01:58was even around back then, 2004, I think1:02:00it was. I don't think so.1:02:02>> Wait. Wait a second. So you were hunting1:02:04for these types of stories way before1:02:07the channel. It wasn't even about the1:02:08>> was no channel.1:02:09>> That's the craziest part of the story.1:02:10>> I've always done that.1:02:12I've always done that with my1:02:13photography, whether I'm shoot doing1:02:14still photography of of a flower or a1:02:17butterfly or of a1:02:19of a whatever, you know, it's like I'm1:02:21I'm always looking for something that is1:02:22just really spectacular.1:02:25I didn't Just really something that1:02:25stands out and is really truly1:02:27spectacular. Broke my brain. I I I1:02:30really didn't realize you met them 151:02:32years before putting them on YouTube.1:02:35Well, I probably put them on YouTube1:02:36with probably 20031:02:39or1:02:40two or four.1:02:41I mean no, no, 2020. Yeah, I was going1:02:44to say.1:02:46I've lose 2020. I lose track of my1:02:48lose track of my decades, but but I met1:02:49the Whittakers probably in 2003.1:02:53Three. So 2003, channel takes off. When1:02:56were you like, oh my god, I got to go1:02:58back and get these people on video? Or1:03:00was that always in the back of your mind1:03:02once the channel took off? No, no, no,1:03:03no. I I I was purely I'm just a1:03:06photographer. Yeah. I still just1:03:08consider myself a photographer. I'm not1:03:09a videographer or or a maybe I'm a1:03:11documentary dude now, but I'm just I'm1:03:14just a photographer that likes to hear1:03:16people's stories. So1:03:17>> Yeah. you learn how to use a microphone1:03:18and a video camera and you can make that1:03:20work, too.1:03:20>> Sure. Which which if you look at my very1:03:22early videos, the the video quality was1:03:24horrible. The audio quality was1:03:26horrible. Everything was horrible. The1:03:28photos were nice, but the but the And1:03:31then I figured out quickly that that you1:03:32know, it's it's it's more watchable if1:03:34the audio is better Yeah. and if the1:03:36video looks better. So I started1:03:38fixing those parts of the video.1:03:41What was1:03:41>> But so so so then originally the1:03:42Whittakers were just somebody somebody1:03:45discovered for that first book I was1:03:47working on. And after that, I was done1:03:49with them. I'm done.1:03:50I gave them a bunch of money and helped1:03:52them out. What what what happened is1:03:53I met them1:03:55when we went there with the cop,1:03:57we pull up1:03:59and it just looks like1:04:01the that scene from Deliverance, but1:04:03times1:04:05times a hundred.1:04:06It was the craziest ever cuz1:04:07everyone's walking around, their eyes1:04:09are everyone everyone's eyes are going1:04:11in different directions. Nobody's got1:04:12any teeth.1:04:14One guy is barking like a dog and1:04:16kicking a trash can with his pants1:04:17around his ankles. Everyone else is just1:04:19staring at you like they're they're1:04:20insane. Damn.1:04:22>> it was the craziest I've ever seen. And1:04:25the cop says to me,1:04:26I told you to bring a video camera.1:04:28>> [laughter]1:04:29>> Wow. And it was like,1:04:31yep, you're right.1:04:33But I but I wasn't thinking in terms of1:04:35video at the time.1:04:35>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I had, which which1:04:37would have been, you know, a major1:04:39undertaking cuz there wasn't even1:04:40digital video then. We were shooting1:04:41film.1:04:42Um so that would have meant a motion1:04:44picture Oh, yeah. camera, which is a lot1:04:47more of an ordeal.1:04:49But I I mean, you know, I I I I don't1:04:50shy away from hard work. So I I would1:04:52have done something like that if I was1:04:53into doing video, which I wasn't. But if1:04:56I had, then Soft White Underbelly would1:04:58have started back in 2003.1:05:00That's crazy.1:05:02>> would have really1:05:03been a different story. True. Okay,1:05:04well, so why was it the best day of your1:05:06life when you were photographing them?1:05:07Like what's going on?1:05:08>> somebody that's just so unique and so1:05:10special and so Right.1:05:12They're just wonderful.1:05:14That family1:05:16before the drugs kind of, you know, BJ1:05:18and her drug scene. Like now she she1:05:19calls me literally1:05:2350 times a day1:05:25asking me for money1:05:27for this, for that, for this, for that.1:05:29For There's always an excuse, but the1:05:30the honest truth of it is it's probably1:05:33for drugs.1:05:34And I I'll block this number and I'll1:05:36block that number and she'll find1:05:37another person to call me from or change1:05:38numbers or whatever. And it's it's just1:05:40like1:05:41like I just don't need that in my life.1:05:43And I could change my phone, which I1:05:44might do I've threatened to do that.1:05:46I might I might get a new number and1:05:48then the then they're out in the cold,1:05:49but then all these other like I I used1:05:51to pride myself. I had a phone that had1:05:52literally1:05:53maybe 25 contacts in it and that was it.1:05:57And then I started Soft White Underbelly1:05:58and now I have a phone with1:06:01Tell me about it.1:06:02>> 8,000 or more Jeez. [snorts] contacts in1:06:05it.1:06:05It's insane.1:06:07But uh1:06:09so yeah, it's just1:06:11they're they're1:06:13I I think I'm done with the Whittakers.1:06:15When were you ready to go back? So1:06:16obviously you1:06:17shot them, Soft White Underbelly, the1:06:19channel starts to take off and when were1:06:20you like1:06:21>> the channel took off way before the1:06:22Whittakers.1:06:22>> Yeah, yeah, exactly. So when were you1:06:24kind of like, okay, I think I want to go1:06:26back and interview them and Oh, I I I1:06:29was just driving through West Virginia.1:06:31And was it planned again? No, no, no,1:06:33no, no.1:06:34No, no, no, no. I cuz he you know, you1:06:36see the the way I do these interviews, I1:06:37sit you down.1:06:38>> Yep, yep, yep. You know, I have I have1:06:40microphones either clipped to you or1:06:41overhead.1:06:43And the cameras are on a tripod. The1:06:44whole thing is set. They're like1:06:45interviewing wild hyenas. Yeah. You1:06:48don't you don't1:06:49get them to do anything you want. Yeah.1:06:51Look at look at Ray. You can't make him1:06:53do anything. Yeah. Impossible. So1:06:56there was no way I could do an1:06:58interview. I didn't even that idea never1:07:00even entered my head. I said, that They1:07:01don't even speak. For Christ's sake,1:07:03they don't even speak. So what am I1:07:04going to do? So there is no way to1:07:06interview them, but1:07:07I was I was literally just holding up my1:07:09phone1:07:10like this just doing a little1:07:13video of1:07:15this crazy family just just to have in1:07:17my1:07:19as a story to tell or to share with some1:07:21of my friends or something.1:07:23And then after I shot it, it was it's1:07:26it's a short video. I don't think it's1:07:27very long. Like probably1:07:2912 minutes or something. Um1:07:31I'm1:07:32I'm in the car and I'm I'm looking at1:07:34the video I shot and like,1:07:36this is pretty interesting. But it's so1:07:38different from what I do and I tend to1:07:40be really rigid about what I will1:07:43release.1:07:44And I didn't want to release something1:07:45that was so different.1:07:47Like it was not shot on location, which1:07:48is something I don't usually do.1:07:50And it was like there's no mics on them,1:07:52so the the audio was compromised. There1:07:54was like a lot of things wrong with it.1:07:56But I just I took a chance and I did it1:07:58and it got a million views the first1:07:59day. Yeah. I feel like I see a pattern1:08:01here. Anytime [clears throat] you break1:08:03a rule, you're like, you know what? I1:08:04don't really do religion, I'll post it.1:08:06You know what? I don't do this, I'll1:08:07post it. Like Yeah, yeah. No, I mean so1:08:09so sometimes I1:08:11like I just uh1:08:13interviewed some of the Epstein1:08:14survivors. Ooh. And I knew damn well1:08:17that that was going to be a hit.1:08:18>> Yeah. And sure enough,1:08:21I posted the first one Saturday and it1:08:22it and it's already got I think1:08:25well over a million views in in like two1:08:26days.1:08:28But I want you to open up the list now1:08:29and tell us some other people that are1:08:31on your dream interview list cuz these1:08:32are fascinating.1:08:35I don't want to give up all my secrets.1:08:37Is there anybody out there because I'm1:08:38like, I'm sure there's people that are1:08:40trying to copy you, but at the end of1:08:41the day, they don't have kind of your1:08:43it's again, yeah, the sauce that you1:08:45have.1:08:45>> There's1:08:46It's the it's it's it's kind of like1:08:48being a songwriter. Yeah.1:08:50>> you want to write songs like Bob Dylan,1:08:52you can try that, but you're not going1:08:53to be Not that I'm Bob Dylan. No, I'm1:08:55not saying I'm1:08:55>> I'm getting the analogy though.1:08:57>> say uh1:08:58you know, who's who's who's a musician1:09:00you really hate?1:09:02Uh Neil Sedaka. So1:09:05>> [laughter]1:09:06>> Let's let's you know, you would say I1:09:07was trying to be a Neil Sedaka. You you1:09:09or Barry Manilow. You would1:09:11No one's going to be Barry Manilow. You1:09:13just can't. You just can't copy whoever1:09:15it is you want to try to be like because1:09:17there's too many dynamics going into1:09:19that. His personality, his voice, the1:09:21intonation, the style, the the the the1:09:24the1:09:25the lyrics, the everything. It's like1:09:26all of that is what makes it his1:09:29and you can't possibly be that. You can1:09:31do something kind of copying it, but1:09:33you're still just a a bad copy of that.1:09:35So it's it's really good to be original1:09:37and just find something that's yours.1:09:39Yeah.1:09:40It would take me too long to find it.1:09:41It's like I have it in here. I I have it1:09:43in my head now so I don't really1:09:45I don't really look for uh Yeah, don't1:09:47make him give up all the secrets.1:09:49>> No, I'm not I'm saying you can't anyway.1:09:51I'm I tend to be really secretive about1:09:52what I'm going to do.1:09:53>> Yeah, facts.1:09:54>> Like when I when I'm going to do1:09:54something,1:09:56I tend to not tell anybody. So you've1:09:58been on a lot of like how many podcasts1:10:00have you been on, would you say? Just1:10:02people interviewing1:10:02>> Very few. I only do one of these a year.1:10:04True. Which one out of all the ones that1:10:06you've been on, which one is your most1:10:08favorite one? Do you have a favorite or1:10:10>> Uh I did a really good one with Rich1:10:12Roll recently, but he decided not to use1:10:13it. He said it was said it wasn't going1:10:15to get enough views so I didn't use it.1:10:16Oh. Yeah, so so whatever. My favorite is1:10:19the Joe Rogan's was good, but Joe1:10:21doesn't really know the ins and outs of1:10:22my channel.1:10:23>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joe's he's Joe's a1:10:24great interviewer, but he doesn't really1:10:25know the ins and out. He didn't know1:10:26about like his riot would have been1:10:28interesting talk. Rebecca would have He1:10:30didn't even mention these people. He1:10:31didn't even know them. I think my1:10:32favorite interview I've done Is unless1:10:35>> was the very first one I did which was1:10:37with uh1:10:38uh Danny. I don't know his last name,1:10:40but he's he's got a podcast down in1:10:41Tampa or St. Pete.1:10:43>> Oh, I know that guy. Concrete.1:10:45>> I think he goes now by Danny Danny1:10:47something. He doesn't use concrete1:10:49anymore, but it was concrete at the1:10:50time. Dude, with a K.1:10:52Concrete with a K. He was legendary1:10:54because of Ben Masala, the guy the1:10:57Did you ever watch his series? First of1:10:59all, he he had this YouTube series where1:11:02it was like these Florida fishermen. It1:11:03was a1:11:04>> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. He told me1:11:04>> reality show. It was wild. It was1:11:06>> We we talked we talked about that on the1:11:07podcast.1:11:08>> It was the craziest thing I've ever1:11:09seen.1:11:10And then he found this one dude, Ben1:11:11Mala, who's this si- I think I don't1:11:14want to say 600 lb. I think he's 600 lb.1:11:17Huge dude. Out of this world character1:11:20that like1:11:21buys like real estate. Like all I think1:11:23like section 8 housing or whatever it1:11:25was. Just a character. And he built this1:11:28I forgot the name of the the the1:11:31episodic series, but he literally1:11:32created a show around this guy that he1:11:34did like I felt like 50 episodes.1:11:36>> Dang.1:11:37>> And then they had a falling out and Ben1:11:39Mala now has his own channel, but I1:11:40remember it was Danny. Danny was like a1:11:42young version of you finding these weird1:11:45>> Yeah, yeah. Florida characters. Yeah, he1:11:47even he brought it up and said I think1:11:49what I'm doing is kind of similar to1:11:50what you're doing and he was right.1:11:51>> Yeah. Yeah, he's he's he was a that1:11:53interview that he did with me I thought1:11:54it was probably the best one I've done.1:11:56Woah.1:11:56>> It was also early. It was I was just1:11:58like fresh and new. I hadn't ever talked1:11:59about it. Yeah, yeah.1:12:01But I mean overall it was just like1:12:04um1:12:04I think like you and him I think what's1:12:07interesting is that there's these1:12:09stories that people are unwilling to1:12:10tell or they'll get uncomfortable going1:12:12into situations like that, but you're1:12:14willing to do that and I think that that1:12:16also is part of the sauce. Like no1:12:17matter it's hard to do what you do.1:12:20Yeah, super hard. Yes, so people don't1:12:22understand. I make it look really easy1:12:23and that's part of the1:12:25allure. Well, I'm1:12:27I'm just1:12:29Like if you're trying to figure out what1:12:30I'm doing, I'm going to I'm three steps1:12:32ahead of you. I'm going to you up1:12:33and you're going to be confused when1:12:34it's all done. That's just how I operate1:12:36and I don't want you to rip off what I'm1:12:38doing. So so1:12:41the1:12:43people I find, the way I find them and1:12:45the way I know who's going to hit and1:12:47who won't,1:12:49that's my strength.1:12:50Not so much the actual interview. I'm a1:12:52pretty lame interviewer.1:12:54Let's just say out of1:12:56out of all the interviews, let's say1:12:58like1:12:59cuz1:13:01you're you're very like invested in the1:13:03interview when you're listening. Like1:13:05how many do you think you've cried on?1:13:07Do you think you've cried a lot?1:13:10Yeah, they get me every once in a while.1:13:11Yeah, that's crazy. When somebody really1:13:14tells their story well1:13:15and it's a heartbreaking story, I get1:13:17caught up and I get Yeah. emotional.1:13:19Yeah, it happens a lot. Dang, that's1:13:21crazy. And the ones that like really1:13:23stick out to you obviously outside of1:13:24like1:13:25the ones that have the most views,1:13:28what are the interviews that you really1:13:29still think about today? That's a good1:13:31question. That's a great question. One1:13:32of my favorites is1:13:35he's just a homeless crystal meth addict1:13:37on the streets in Santa Monica. I1:13:39actually found him in Santa Monica.1:13:41Um this guy [clears throat] named1:13:42Alfredo.1:13:44He's a black guy.1:13:46Like a older black dude. 50 years old,1:13:4855 years old, something like that. And1:13:50he's talking about how his family is all1:13:52in the mob. Mhm.1:13:54And it's again, it's kind of like what I1:13:56said earlier. It's just a total crock of1:13:58pure1:13:59>> [laughter]1:14:00>> But he's saying it with a straight face.1:14:03It's it's insane what he says in this1:14:06interview. Like his family invented1:14:09his family owns this corporation, that1:14:12corporation, this corporation, that all1:14:14these corporations and they're mafia1:14:15connected and they're it's like1:14:17Dude, you're just a homeless dude on the1:14:19street. Where do you think where is all1:14:21this crazy But it crystal meth does that1:14:23to your brain where you don't sleep for1:14:25for 3 weeks.1:14:26And it makes you kind of goofy anyway1:14:28and it's like you end up believing that1:14:29you are just the most powerful badass1:14:32that ever walked the earth. But even1:14:34when the story is fake like that, you're1:14:36still like this guy.1:14:38>> I love that.1:14:40You know, if you sometimes people will1:14:42say see my videos,1:14:43this is this is a lie. I can't believe1:14:45Mark's falling for this Mark knows1:14:47this is1:14:48That's why he posted it.1:14:50Cuz I'm not looking for1:14:53I mean that the the lies are what's1:14:55authentic about it.1:14:56>> Yes, yes. I love that kind of1:14:57authenticity where it's like it's pure1:15:00but it's fascinating because it's That's1:15:02interesting.1:15:03>> I love that I love like when when1:15:05my finders are out there in the street1:15:07and say, "Oh Mark, I got one of your I1:15:09got it. I know exactly what you like. I1:15:10got it for you." And he's got somebody1:15:12who's1:15:13purely spewing total crap. [laughter]1:15:16But and I normally like that, but very1:15:18very few of those will hold will will1:15:21make for a good interview. Like a lot of1:15:22them won't get used. Yes, they're insane1:15:24and they're saying ridiculous but1:15:26it's like it just doesn't hold together.1:15:28Whereas Alfredo's kind of did.1:15:30The whole story the whole story is like1:15:32this is great.1:15:34I like hearing these cuz I'm definitely1:15:36going to go back and1:15:36>> And then like my other favorites which1:15:38is not it's the exact opposite of that.1:15:41Uh1:15:42uh Giovanni Rocco who's a1:15:45former F- I think he's an F- I think1:15:47he's retired now. FBI agent who went1:15:50undercover to [clears throat] infiltrate1:15:52the New New Jersey mob.1:15:54Which is the Soprano family was based1:15:56on. But his story is true.1:15:58And he1:15:59it's a 4-hour talk. It's1:16:02it's over 4 hours long and it's the most1:16:04magnificent storytelling you'll ever1:16:06hear. Wait, is it not out yet? What's1:16:08the one you also did a New Jersey cop?1:16:10That's the guy, right? The New Jersey1:16:12cop? I've done a bunch of New Jersey1:16:14cops.1:16:14>> Okay, there was one that was like he um1:16:17This is this is an FBI agent. Okay,1:16:19okay. I got to go back. There was there1:16:21was one you did it was like maybe like 31:16:23months ago or something.1:16:24>> No, this was a year and a half ago1:16:26probably. Okay. But it's it's my1:16:28favorite1:16:29probably my favorite video, but it's 41:16:31hours so it didn't get a ton of views.1:16:34Who the going to watch a 4-hour1:16:3615-minute video? But it's true. But if1:16:38you if you sit through the first the1:16:39first it starts slow1:16:41and builds and builds and by the end of1:16:44it you're you have so much anxiety1:16:46because his story is getting gotten so1:16:48crazy cuz like you know, his wife is1:16:50going, "What the are you doing?" Like1:16:51he's not coming home and he's but he's1:16:53he's he's just part of the mob now.1:16:56Yeah. And they've ordered him to I'm not1:16:58going to tell the whole story. But it1:16:59sounds It should be a movie. I cannot1:17:01believe Hollywood has not figured or1:17:03Yeah, yeah. some network has not figured1:17:05out like this is the greatest story1:17:07ever. We're going to clip this in a1:17:08TikTok clip and people are going to go1:17:10watch that video and you're going to get1:17:11a phone call. I promise you. Yeah, he1:17:13deserves to have his story made into a1:17:15s- Okay, so it was like a short1:17:16synopsis. It's too involved the story to1:17:18be just a movie. It's got to be like a1:17:19series. Give us like a short synopsis of1:17:21like just so we could put it in the clip1:17:24when we1:17:24>> Of that one? Yeah.1:17:25So he he infiltrates the New Jersey mob1:17:29which is like the Sopranos family. The1:17:31but in real life.1:17:33He infiltrates them. He becomes part of1:17:35them, connected. He's like part of the1:17:36family now.1:17:38And1:17:39they order him to1:17:42murder this one guy they want taken out.1:17:45And he's like like why me? You have all1:17:47these tough guys. Like why why me? He1:17:50says, "Hey, you're one of us. So it's1:17:52your turn. You're you're So now he has1:17:54to murder a guy, but he's a member of1:17:56the FBI. So it's like how do you work as1:17:58the FBI agent but murder somebody?"1:18:00And if he doesn't do it, then he's going1:18:02to be exposed as being fake1:18:04or not worthy of being in the mob1:18:07which is what he's kind of being led1:18:09towards.1:18:10And it became a it's just a hairy story.1:18:14And he made it out Well, obviously he1:18:16made it out thing.1:18:18Was he in height like I won't ruin the1:18:21story.1:18:22It's1:18:24it's a great one. It's it's 4 hours long1:18:26though so be be warned. So what how much1:18:28do you cut out of certain interviews? Do1:18:29you just leave it all? I don't. I don't1:18:31cut anything. Wow.1:18:32>> What about It's only if they make a1:18:34mistake or they have to do whatever.1:18:36True. What if they request stuff like1:18:38Have you ever had Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.1:18:38I've had people say, "Oh, I mentioned my1:18:41neighbor's name or my my ex-boyfriend's1:18:43name or whatever. Take that out." I'll1:18:45do that sometimes.1:18:47Then what's another interview?1:18:49That I like? Yeah.1:18:51Uh Frenchy's really great. Her Frenchy's1:18:53first video is really solid. Yeah, that1:18:55was a good one.1:18:57Yeah. But that's got millions of views1:18:59so it's not really undiscovered. Yeah.1:19:01Um1:19:02Do you know who Frenchy Do you guys know1:19:03who Frenchy is? No.1:19:05She's like a she's like a high-end1:19:06escort in San Diego who uh1:19:09She's like a great great story.1:19:11>> He asks like one question and she just1:19:13basically talks about it. But she's like1:19:15very poetic in the way that she talks.1:19:17>> Yeah, she she made she told me she'd1:19:18meet me at like 7 p.m. p.m. I think.1:19:22And she didn't show up I don't think1:19:24until1:19:26midnight.1:19:28Or maybe 11:00 p.m. So but why did you1:19:31have to wait1:19:32>> You know, and she tells this like long1:19:33story. It was probably 2 or 3 hours. So1:19:35didn't get out of there until like 2:001:19:36or 3:00 in the morning.1:19:39>> [clears throat]1:19:40>> But she's amazing. She's just amazing.1:19:42Is there an interview you regret1:19:44conducting or releasing?1:19:47The ones he doesn't put out. Yeah,1:19:49there's there's a lot I don't put out. I1:19:50mean there's less than1:19:53less than a third1:19:56that I especially when I'm on Skid Row a1:19:57lot, it's it's a quarter.1:19:59Now now now when people email me I'll1:20:01I'll feel them out, make sure their1:20:02story is good, make sure they can tell a1:20:04story and then I'll say yeah, come on1:20:06out. And then and then it's pretty much1:20:08a lock that they'll get1:20:10that I'll use their video. So so my1:20:13reject rate is is not so good now. Oh um1:20:18Mark Brandon was a1:20:21uh a coke smuggler. Mhm. That's a really1:20:23good story. I posted that about a month1:20:25or so ago.1:20:27That's a really good one.1:20:28That one didn't get a bunch of views?1:20:30>> No, it's 265 which is low basically.1:20:33Yeah. I remember seeing the USC kingpin1:20:35one.1:20:36The which one? The USC kingpin the Oh1:20:38yeah yeah yeah. That one was also Owen1:20:41Owen Owen Hanson. That's a great story.1:20:43That one was crazy too. The dude who got1:20:45his face blown off by a shotty.1:20:48Do you know who I'm talking about? The1:20:49African-American guy?1:20:51Who got shot in the1:20:52>> one Justin who I've also posted in1:20:53January. A scream looking for a mouth.1:20:56It's a really good addiction recovery1:20:58story. Mhm. Really good. And that one's1:21:00that one's got1:21:01it got it got age restricted so it's1:21:03hard to find. You can't even just search1:21:04it. You have to prove that you're over1:21:0618 to even find it.1:21:08And so it's only got 47,000 views. Wow.1:21:12That that that video deserves a million1:21:13views if anything does.1:21:16Crazy.1:21:17But you were saying something about the1:21:19>> No, I was saying there was a dude who1:21:20got his like face shot or something.1:21:22>> Oh yeah, Jerry. Yeah.1:21:23>> He used to be on Skid Row. He passed1:21:24away. Oh He was uh1:21:28he was just coming home from work1:21:30waiting at a bus stop1:21:32and somebody pulled up to him and just1:21:33shot in the side of the head with a1:21:35shotgun. And so the his whole1:21:37Yeah.1:21:38>> his right side of his face is all gone.1:21:40Yeah, that was crazy. Random person?1:21:42Targeted?1:21:44Basically, yeah. I I don't know all the1:21:45details. He he's not totally1:21:48like Wasn't open about it at first.1:21:50>> Yeah, I you'll never get the total1:21:51truth. But basically it sounds like he's1:21:54he was just shot on the on the way home1:21:55from work.1:21:56And he lived.1:21:58You know, like like so like so many1:22:00hours of surgery and the doctors were1:22:02able to save him.1:22:04And you know, he he doesn't have his1:22:06vision or his1:22:07health but he you know, he1:22:09he's 100%1:22:11I mean mentally capable.1:22:13Wow. Jeez. Which is interesting cuz his1:22:15brain is1:22:17been chopped up. Dang.1:22:19Crazy. Yeah, his his his head is shaped1:22:21like a Yeah yeah yeah. like a candle1:22:23that you threw off a building.1:22:25Yeah. So he was one of the people that I1:22:27was like I got him housing. I was paying1:22:29for his a lot of his everything food.1:22:33I had people come in and clean his1:22:35apartment and do all that kind of stuff.1:22:36Wow. I don't really I don't like to talk1:22:38about that cuz then it looks like oh1:22:40Mark's trying to be a angel or1:22:41something. I would rather be seen as the1:22:43devil1:22:44even though I know I'm doing good things1:22:46than than just1:22:48start presenting myself as if I'm the1:22:50saint that's doing all this good stuff.1:22:51True.1:22:52>> Cuz it it it it changes what I'm trying1:22:54to do.1:22:55What what do you mean it changes things?1:22:57>> Like like when I when I do a best1:22:58example is when I do an interview with a1:23:0013-year-old prostitute, I'm trying to1:23:01horrify you into being a good parent.1:23:05That's what I'm trying to do. Cuz if1:23:07you're not around to to be in your1:23:08daughter's life1:23:12you know, that kind of can happen.1:23:15But if I if my video start being about1:23:16how oh I'm helping the 13-year-old girl1:23:18get a hotel room for the week or or or1:23:20keeping her off the streets or doing1:23:21like1:23:22that's not what that's not my goal.1:23:25That's not my goal. I would rather1:23:27prevent this kind of from happening1:23:29than trying to fix what's already1:23:30happened.1:23:31And the way to prevent it is to show you1:23:33how1:23:34things will work out if you skip out on1:23:36your on your family.1:23:39I have a question that kind of switches1:23:41gears. This might be the better1:23:43interview.1:23:44>> [laughter]1:23:44>> It's getting better as we do.1:23:46I was going to ask so you said that you1:23:48had really no faith or you really1:23:50weren't religious but then at the1:23:51beginning of the interview you said that1:23:52that kind of changed for you recently.1:23:54Curious what maybe1:23:55>> Yeah, so don't don't don't don't corner1:23:57me on that cuz1:23:59I'll I'll book hard. Yeah.1:24:01>> Like I I I don't like I came I grew up1:24:02in a family that especially my dad who1:24:04just was really down on organized1:24:06religion.1:24:07And I have adopted that attitude. But1:24:11I do recognize that1:24:13there's some great teachings in what1:24:15Jesus did or what the what these people1:24:17stand for.1:24:19So I'm not going to I'm not going to1:24:22diss it and say like that's a bunch of1:24:24it's not. It's it's totally it's how I1:24:26live my life.1:24:27It's how I try to live that life.1:24:29Um1:24:31but I don't like I'm not a joiner. I1:24:33don't like me oh yeah, let's all go to1:24:34church this morning. Yeah.1:24:36Go team all that. I I don't do that. I'm1:24:38I'm a lone wolf. I like to do things my1:24:40own way.1:24:41And I like to learn on my own and and do1:24:43things1:24:44as an individual not as a not as a1:24:46a group. Yeah.1:24:48But but but1:24:50I'm not going to say I'm a fan of1:24:51organized religion but I am a fan of the1:24:53teachings with what you're doing. Yeah.1:24:55100%.1:24:57I love that.1:24:59Real Mark's real, man.1:25:02I just I'm not a joiner. Yeah. Of1:25:04anything. I respect it. It's just1:25:06interesting like1:25:08cuz your philosophy is very like about1:25:10your page is very1:25:12not religious but you're very passionate1:25:14about it and it has a lot of really1:25:15positive undertones even though you1:25:18don't want to be looked at positively or1:25:19like you're kind of glazing yourself. I1:25:21could do a lot of things differently.1:25:22And as an outsider looking at what I'm1:25:24doing I could certainly do things what1:25:26people would say1:25:27a lot smarter than what I'm doing. Like1:25:29you you'll never hear me say don't1:25:31forget to hit the subscribe button and1:25:33hit the like button and don't forget to1:25:36you know, hit the notifications thing1:25:37because you because you won't know that1:25:38like only 0.6% of my videos1:25:41are viewed because of notifications. I1:25:44got 7 million subscribers but only 0.61:25:46of those 7 million are being notified.1:25:49Wow.1:25:500.6. Dang.1:25:52And that's because I don't promote. I1:25:54don't sit there and do a spiel about1:25:56don't forget to subscribe and don't1:25:57forget to hit the like button. Don't1:25:58forget to hit the notifications. Don't1:25:59forget to suck my1:26:02I don't I don't do any of that stuff. So1:26:03I just all I want to do is make videos.1:26:07All I want to do is just make videos and1:26:09if you like them watch them and if you1:26:10don't don't. I feel like I feel like you1:26:12have this like firm spirit of rebellion.1:26:15Like where does that come from? Like it1:26:16feels like1:26:17>> I I just see that there's a lot of in1:26:18the world.1:26:18>> Yeah. And when people do that kind of1:26:20stuff it just smells of1:26:22Yeah. And I hate people.1:26:24Thanks. Thanks. I hate when people are1:26:25like false.1:26:28And they're playing these games and they1:26:29do these like little1:26:31clips at the beginning trying to tease1:26:33you into watching the entire video.1:26:35I try not to do that. I'll do that once1:26:37in a while if it's tasteful.1:26:39But sometimes people will do like1:26:40multiple things. So you got to you're1:26:41like suckered into watching the whole1:26:44video. Mhm.1:26:45>> It's like if your video is good then1:26:46make it good and people will watch. And1:26:47if it isn't then don't.1:26:49But to to do that kind of stuff and lure1:26:52in1:26:53it's to me it's just it's distasteful.1:26:55That makes sense why he doesn't like1:26:57organized religion. I feel like low-key1:26:59it's super like performative in a lot of1:27:01ways too. Yeah yeah. And Reverend Angely1:27:03was the epitome of that. And that's why1:27:05I just love exposing his his1:27:08So it's not like I like people think1:27:09like I get like down like down votes or1:27:12whatever on some of my videos cuz people1:27:13don't approve of the person. That's the1:27:15whole point. Yeah. I'm showing you the1:27:18the the soft white underbelly of1:27:19society. I'm showing you the fuckups. Or1:27:22or the ne'er-do-wells or the or the1:27:24the con artists. Mhm. Reverend Angely1:27:27was the epitome of a con artist.1:27:29And I love that. I just that's exactly1:27:32who I want to interview. Not every day.1:27:34I also want to interview a Catholic nun.1:27:36Who's not full of1:27:38Um She's just doing good deeds. And I1:27:40just find that1:27:41mix of Yeah. all these different things1:27:44that exist. That's interesting.1:27:46Interesting. And it's an interview.1:27:47You're not showing their story. So1:27:49really the the authenticity you're1:27:50showing is in the person not what1:27:52they're saying. I'm not approving of1:27:53anything. Totally. You're not close Like1:27:55I interviewed a whole bunch of uh uh St.1:27:56Petersburg, Florida. On that same trip1:27:58with when I did interview with Danny.1:28:04Um he was talking about it in his1:28:05interview. But uh I interviewed this one1:28:07guy an older guy who's probably 701:28:09something.1:28:11Maybe 80. He1:28:13had intercourse with his young daughter1:28:14when he was younger and her best friend.1:28:17And I did that whole interview just1:28:19talking to him like I'm talking with1:28:20you. I'm not judging you. I'm not saying1:28:21the Green Bay Packers suck even though1:28:23that's they do suck. Chicago. I'm a I'm1:28:26a Bears I'm a Bears fan.1:28:28I'm a Bears fan. That's you're you're1:28:30evil. No, but I like I I don't I don't1:28:32judge anything he's telling me or doing.1:28:35I just kind of like let him Yeah.1:28:37>> tell his story and I accept it. I'm like1:28:39when he says he1:28:41>> [snorts]1:28:42>> I'll even say things to kind of1:28:44lure him to speak more to be more open.1:28:47Mhm. So like I even use I think I used1:28:49the word like so when you seduced this1:28:52your daughter1:28:53Yes, that's an im- inappropriate term1:28:56and I get crucified for it.1:28:58You guys. Cuz all I'm trying to do is1:29:00get him to speak so we can learn about1:29:01him to figure out what he's about,1:29:04what's how he's wired, maybe how he1:29:05became got this way. Mhm. He says he was1:29:08molested as a kid too.1:29:09You know, I'm just trying to get us to1:29:11learn. Totally. So sometimes I have to1:29:13take the hit as the bad guy. Yeah yeah.1:29:14You know, like when I'm interviewing the1:29:16Trophy who's a 13-year-old prostitute,1:29:19I'm not her trick.1:29:20I'm not her pimp.1:29:21I'm not her dad. I'm not her friend. I'm1:29:23not a neighbor. I'm not anything. I'm1:29:25just some dude that's going to get her a1:29:26hotel room for a couple nights, so she1:29:28she wants to tell her story.1:29:30Right.1:29:31>> mom's not going to be, you know, willing1:29:32to help her. She's just say, "Yeah,1:29:34interview my daughter." And that's that.1:29:36You know, but but that's1:29:38>> [clears throat]1:29:38>> the extent of my connection with her.1:29:41Right.1:29:42I'm not I'm I'm not a I'm not a good guy1:29:44or bad guy. I'm just I'm just the1:29:46messenger. You're not showcasing their1:29:48story. You're showcasing the reality,1:29:50the authenticity.1:29:51>> want to tell you what's going on. And1:29:52for that reason1:29:53>> And and and and and the honest truth is1:29:54people watch my videos, they get upset1:29:56by what they see,1:29:57and there's no one to blame.1:29:59So they have to blame the guy.1:30:00>> the messenger.1:30:01>> They don't get it. Well, that's why your1:30:02page is kind of like the anti-hero of1:30:04media because it shows a good message1:30:07through the worst, most damning,1:30:08shocking, scary things. But in the root1:30:10of it, you have a good message, but1:30:11that's going to be realer than any1:30:13reality TV show you could watch with a1:30:14positive message about love and trust1:30:17and No, it's like the the realest is1:30:19coming from the darkest, darkest part of1:30:21the world, so it's really interesting to1:30:23watch.1:30:24I mean, honestly, a lot of people have1:30:26came to me and was like, "Dude, I saw1:30:27Soft White Underbelly and I changed1:30:29because of you." Like Yeah.1:30:30>> You what you went through is like no one1:30:32I don't know how to like articulate1:30:34that, but that's what it was. And so1:30:36the fact that, you know, Mark did that1:30:38was that's fire, man. It's crazy, man.1:30:40>> I like to piss some people off1:30:41sometimes.1:30:42>> [laughter]1:30:42>> Sure. I feel like you have um1:30:45way more fans than you do of haters. And1:30:47mostly it's like it's1:30:50the people that are commenting is such a1:30:52small minority. We meet way more people1:30:54like sometimes, like you said, we'll1:30:56read comments, be upset, but we'll go1:30:57out and there's so many people that come1:30:59up to them being like, "You've changed1:31:00my life. I watch your stuff. You've1:31:02helped me so much." Whatever it is. So1:31:03I'm sure you experience the same thing.1:31:05Well, I I1:31:06uh1:31:07I I like pimp wisdom sometimes.1:31:10And I have this one pimp friend who1:31:12who has insights into things.1:31:15And he said to me that your your biggest1:31:17haters are actually your biggest fans.1:31:20And if they ever met you,1:31:22they would flip.1:31:23And they would be you would they what1:31:25they what they're lacking is any1:31:27connection to you or any any1:31:29They don't they don't know you. They1:31:30they'll never meet you. They know that1:31:31and they're just pissed that they're1:31:33envious and and pissed off. But if they1:31:35ever met you and you were nice to them,1:31:36which you always are,1:31:38they would flip in a in a second. Say it1:31:40again for the people in the back. So1:31:41true. Do people recognize your voice1:31:43ever? I feel like you can't even order1:31:45sandwich. Yeah, people say that. Really?1:31:47>> Yeah, I've had people say that. Like1:31:48I'll be on the phone or I'll be like in1:31:49person.1:31:52And and they'll be like1:31:53Yeah, I've had Yeah, I've1:31:55scenarios. I can imagine you walking1:31:56kind of low-key. I'm on camera a lot, so1:31:59I I try not to be recognized, but You1:32:01can stay undercover for the most part1:32:02until you're like, "Yeah, I'll get the1:32:04the steak." And they're like, "Wait, are1:32:05you are you Mark?" Yeah, sometimes that1:32:07happens. That's funny. It's funny.1:32:10What's your favorite part about Soft1:32:11White Underbelly? So you've kind of1:32:13explained you love finding these1:32:14stories, telling these stories. You also1:32:16help people a lot behind the scenes.1:32:18What else is1:32:20What what else do you love about what1:32:22you've created that helps you?1:32:23>> I think and the all I love about it is1:32:26when I get a1:32:28a Michael Chernow, who I just1:32:29interviewed that that I mentioned1:32:30earlier,1:32:31who just tells a great story and he's1:32:33charismatic and he's well-spoken and1:32:36he's just beautiful to listen to and1:32:37beautiful to look at. He's good-looking1:32:38dude.1:32:40And he tells this heartbreaking story1:32:41and he's1:32:42intense about it.1:32:44I love that.1:32:45Just love it. And there's it's That's1:32:47all I need to do with what I do.1:32:51Just that.1:32:52I don't need anything else. That's so1:32:54it's so interesting. I can just feel the1:32:56passion of how much you care about just1:32:58telling like raw, pure stories.1:33:00>> think I'll I think I'll do this the rest1:33:01of my life cuz it's like it's never1:33:03going to get old Yeah. for me. You know,1:33:06it's like1:33:07I've done 11,000 interviews. I I could1:33:09do1:33:11300,000 and they're still going to be1:33:13interesting. People are interesting.1:33:14Yeah. I think you're one of the gold1:33:15interviews of the generation. So you're1:33:17going to go down in history as one of1:33:18the best. It's a good time capsule.1:33:20Yeah. It's a really good time capsule.1:33:21Like like in 100 years, they'll look at1:33:23this and be like1:33:24Oh, look at Yeah, who was this guy? be1:33:26more interesting then. It's just it's1:33:28such an interesting slice of culture1:33:30that I can't find anywhere else. For1:33:32sure. Yeah, that that's kind of what I'm1:33:35proudest of. So you're you're like,1:33:36"Okay, I'm branching out." It's it's,1:33:38you know, you're finding more people.1:33:40Where's your interest now in terms You1:33:42said the non, you said the reverend, but1:33:44you like who what are other things1:33:46coming to your mind where you're like1:33:47Well, I'm about to take uh a road trip1:33:51with my girlfriend from1:33:53LA1:33:54to1:33:56probably maybe Vegas and then Arizona,1:33:58then New Mexico, then Texas,1:34:01probably Southern Texas cuz I have1:34:02somebody down there, Louisiana,1:34:03Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, and then1:34:06from there we'll see. Wow.1:34:07>> We'll either kill each other or we'll1:34:09drive back.1:34:10>> [laughter]1:34:13>> What what's kind of interesting though1:34:14is like would you are famous people not1:34:17trying to get on your show and like1:34:19>> like to do famous people. But what about1:34:21like a like a dirty like I mean, you've1:34:22done like like what about like1:34:25if if Donald Trump wanted to come on and1:34:28tell his story?1:34:29>> initially, like O.J. Simpson contacted1:34:31me early on when he when he was in1:34:32prison. He wanted to do an interview1:34:33with me. I I turned him down cuz I just1:34:35thought it was too1:34:37like it would it would have like I had1:34:38this low-key just I loved what I was1:34:41doing and there were no famous people1:34:42and I loved that. To do an O.J. would1:34:44have been like it would have blown up1:34:45and it would have just changed my whole1:34:47channel and taken it off target off off1:34:49track.1:34:50So I turned him down. Same thing with1:34:52Robert Blake.1:34:53Um who also murdered1:34:55his wife, I think. Um but Allegedly. But1:34:59now I would do it Now I would handle it1:35:00very differently. Like like famous1:35:02people now I would I would totally do.1:35:04That's crazy. Then no one's hitting you1:35:06up. There's got to be some interesting1:35:07people that are trying.1:35:09Um I've had a few mildly like, you know,1:35:12Who's somebody Who's somebody where1:35:13you're like1:35:14>> Chuck Palahniuk who wrote Fight Club. I1:35:16I interviewed him recently.1:35:18Um1:35:19Some some musicians have done it. I You1:35:21know, it's like Who's a famous person1:35:22you'd want on right now? You're like,1:35:23"If I could get blank on Mike Mike Ness1:35:27from Social Distortion would be a great1:35:29story. Okay.1:35:31I think. Mickey Rourke would be great.1:35:33Oh my gosh. That would be a great story.1:35:36You could pull the Uno reverse on Joe1:35:37Rogan.1:35:39Make him come on. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Joe1:35:41I mean, everyone kind of knows Joe's1:35:42story. That's true.1:35:44He's such a good interviewer. He would1:35:45have He would out-interview the1:35:46interviewer.1:35:47>> [laughter]1:35:48>> Yeah.1:35:48He's he's too big a personality. I I1:35:50think Pamela Anderson would be super1:35:52interesting. Wow.1:35:53>> story is just interesting. Especially1:35:54her new version1:35:55>> Especially her new version. That's the1:35:56coolest part of her story. Do you guys1:35:58know what's she's happening to her?1:36:00She goes around with no makeup.1:36:01>> All natural. All natural. So beautiful,1:36:04right? I I think it's she's she's just1:36:05so cool.1:36:07She's just so cool. That's cool. We're1:36:09going to clip this up, send it to your1:36:10team. She's got crazy-ass stories. You1:36:12know she's got crazy stories.1:36:14But yeah, the the problem with people1:36:15that are famous and and have a lot to1:36:17lose is sometimes they're not too1:36:19honest. Yeah.1:36:19>> They they have a lot to lots to lose, so1:36:21they'll be1:36:22less than fully honest. Whereas on Skid1:36:24Row,1:36:25It's or or the gross street sometimes or1:36:27South Central, they'll they'll just tell1:36:28you how it is, man. They're PR-trained1:36:30like media1:36:30>> Yes. That's the same. They've been1:36:32hanging around with too too many PR1:36:33people. When you when you interview like1:36:34an Epstein survivor survivor, what does1:36:36that make you feel about the world that1:36:38we live in?1:36:39Does this feel all fake? To me it it1:36:41feels fake in a lot of ways where it's1:36:43like, "Wow, we can't even trust the1:36:44people1:36:45that are supposed to have our Well, I1:36:47mean, that that that that story has1:36:49really exposed how much corruption1:36:51corruption is out there. Like you never1:36:54thought like the president would be1:36:57like he's he's he's doing what with who?1:37:00Or just What why why was he the Why did1:37:02he have a beauty pageant? What kind of1:37:04guy like that needs a beauty pageant?1:37:06And he's walking into the into the1:37:07dressing room.1:37:09Like dude, you don't ever walk into a1:37:11dressing a female dressing room. Yeah,1:37:13facts. No matter who you are.1:37:15If you have a penis, you don't even1:37:17touch the doorknob.1:37:18And he's walking in and like who who who1:37:20does that? How does that make you feel1:37:22about the world though? Or are you just1:37:23kind of like it's always been a sick,1:37:25twisted1:37:25>> Well, I've never been like a1:37:28you know, one of those uh conspiracy1:37:30theorist conspiracy theorist or anything1:37:32like that. I always see the the the best1:37:34in people. I try to. And I know I'm1:37:36delusional. I know I am.1:37:38And now now it's clear more clear than1:37:40ever that I agree. Now I'm I'm I'm more1:37:43delusional than ever, but I still try to1:37:46think that people are going to do the1:37:47right thing. Yeah. And I get played all1:37:49the time.1:37:50I get suckered and played all the time1:37:52by these people.1:37:54But1:37:55I just that's how I go through life.1:37:57How do you see the world?1:38:00I think like I see it more from a1:38:01biblical standpoint. There was two parts1:38:03right before I was saved. I was more1:38:05like1:38:06everybody's out to get me1:38:08and like I got to be on my own and then1:38:11very negative and pessimistic. I think1:38:13now it's more like compassionate. Like,1:38:16"Dang, a lot of people don't they can't1:38:18step out of that mindset of like just1:38:21hustling people." That there's actually1:38:23people out there who really love on1:38:24people and want to help you.1:38:26But you would just like get up for1:38:27yourself, you know? So1:38:29yeah, I that's kind of my view.1:38:32Yeah, and then in terms of just the1:38:33leadership, yeah, it's crazy, bro. Like1:38:35Epstein files, things like that coming1:38:36out.1:38:37It's like1:38:39there's so much stuff that is going on1:38:41that we don't know, right? And then1:38:42we're trusting these people and1:38:45it's just difficult. And that's why I'm1:38:46like, "We need we need God, bro." Like1:38:48straight up. That's like1:38:50if I was to dumb it down, we need Jesus.1:38:52Yeah, we we need something. Yeah. And1:38:53and you know, I've been anti-religion1:38:55for a long time, but Jesus Christ, look1:38:57how up everyone is.1:38:58>> Yeah. From our president on down.1:39:01Why not? Right.1:39:03What do you have to lose? What has1:39:04changed most in our society in the last1:39:0630 years?1:39:07>> Right. 40 years? Right. Religion Right.1:39:10has been extracted from1:39:13life.1:39:14And look and look how up things1:39:15are now. Right. There's a huge bounce1:39:17back. The The younger generation isn't1:39:19drinking. They're choosing to go to1:39:21church. They're So for their faith.1:39:23Yeah, I mean there's if that's happening1:39:24they're they're doing it out of a1:39:26reaction to1:39:28what they're seeing and how up1:39:31everything is.1:39:32>> Yeah. So true. Yeah.1:39:34Do you feel like This is a question for1:39:36both of you guys. Do you feel like1:39:38there's more positive in the world or do1:39:41you feel like1:39:42Is evil winning or is good winning right1:39:44now in your eyes? I I would say I'm much1:39:46more positive.1:39:48As much as as much terrible stuff as is1:39:50going on and probably always has gone1:39:53on. I'm sure it was worse 300 years ago1:39:55Yeah. than today.1:39:56There's still so much amazing medicine1:40:00and and just technology and just so many1:40:03wonderful things nature. Just Nature1:40:05alone is enough to1:40:06like1:40:07Yeah. Yeah.1:40:09There's so many magic and wonderful1:40:11beautiful things1:40:12in the world. I'm I'm super positive but1:40:15it's just hard sometimes to reconcile1:40:17Mhm. that there's like people like1:40:19Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah.1:40:21I think people are like1:40:24kind of to what Mark was saying but also1:40:26they're although the the technology and1:40:29things are people are more like1:40:31interconnected than ever. I also see at1:40:33least on my side like depression.1:40:35There's more depression. Like you know,1:40:37you can sit there and like zoom people1:40:40but the connection and relationship1:40:42stuff everything has become parasocial1:40:43too. So there I I mean in our world I1:40:46feel like it's just more parasocial. I1:40:49don't see a lot of people like going out1:40:50and like functioning like that. Like1:40:52clubs are dying like things like that.1:40:54Which it's not as social as it's1:40:57parasocial now, right? And so you have1:40:59these live streamers who are like1:41:01A-list celebrities. Like they'll shut1:41:03down a whole block, right? And and1:41:05you're just like who are these people?1:41:07So1:41:07again, it it it has its I can't say it's1:41:10more positive or more negative. I think1:41:12that's more subjective but it comes for1:41:14me at least it's there is something that1:41:17you know, is positive and also negative.1:41:19Like it's always kind of balanced right?1:41:21So I just think society Oh, sorry. You1:41:23go. Well, I'm just saying we're lonelier1:41:25than ever in the most connected1:41:26generation of all time.1:41:28Doesn't make any sense. And I think it's1:41:30a pendulum swing. So I don't know if you1:41:32guys remember it's like individualism1:41:33was like super big at one point and then1:41:36it's people just started to like follow1:41:38their thoughts and then they went like1:41:40so extreme where it's like God1:41:42everything else. Like we got to do what1:41:43we got to do. And then it became like1:41:46oh, damn we're hella depressed. And now1:41:47it's like swinging back to like the1:41:49revival of like Christianity and1:41:51whatever it is, you know? So Yeah. I I1:41:53like what he was kind of saying of like1:41:55there's still so much positive you could1:41:57look at but I think that it's very hard1:41:59when you have this in your hand. It's1:42:01and it's just negative thing after1:42:03negative thing. It's It's Epstein. It's1:42:05Venezuela. wars Yeah, it's1:42:08also what you're looking at.1:42:10>> choice1:42:11Like like I think it was yesterday I was1:42:13sitting in bed looking at like these1:42:15little bird like some exotic bird videos1:42:18on whatever it was Instagram or Tik Tok.1:42:20Not Tik Tok but I don't I don't go on1:42:21Tik Tok but uh1:42:23maybe YouTube. They're fantastic.1:42:25>> [laughter]1:42:26>> amazing1:42:27Nature is just so mind-blowing and1:42:29beautiful. Yeah. Like you don't need to1:42:31look at1:42:33some of the negative that's1:42:34happening in the world.1:42:35>> Yeah. Unless you're fascinated by it and1:42:36then you get sucked into it. And the1:42:38more you do it the more that's what gets1:42:39recommended and then it's like then1:42:40you're on a Yeah. a loop of of just1:42:43negativity. Yeah, true. It's just tough1:42:45to like connect and meet people. You got1:42:47to be like pretty outgoing nowadays and1:42:49like you even see it like uh just1:42:53I don't I don't like you see birth rates1:42:55plummeting. You see people long-term1:42:58relationships and marriages also1:43:00failing. It's just a very interesting1:43:02place but I kind of I although I see1:43:05positive in a lot of these amazing1:43:06things and you know how you're saying1:43:08like the pendulum is falling one1:43:10direction. I think we've swung too far1:43:13where we've just changed like society in1:43:15a whole has completely changed and now1:43:17we're just going to have to adapt to1:43:19whatever this new society ends up1:43:20becoming. And in 10 20 years it's just1:43:24going to be something that we've never1:43:25felt before. I think you will never go1:43:27back to what the 2000s were, the 90s1:43:29were ever again.1:43:31Just had a new completely different era1:43:33of humanity that we we can't formulate1:43:36what technology did to us. You have to1:43:38adapt constantly now. Like every 3 years1:43:40you need to reinvent yourself and I1:43:42think also1:43:44it's good to just listen to yourself and1:43:47and be your own1:43:49person. Not affected by what people are1:43:52not not affected by trends or what1:43:54people are doing or what people are1:43:55saying.1:43:56You just like know what's what's right1:43:58and you just do your thing. But you have1:43:59an innate That was just innate in you.1:44:01That's your natural ability. You've just1:44:03seemed like you were1:44:04>> I was like I was like that since I was a1:44:05little kid.1:44:05>> Exactly. I can tell. So what would you1:44:07say to the like That's such a hard thing1:44:09to do. What would you How would you tell1:44:11a kid or a young person that's kind of1:44:13developing in the world to decide how1:44:16like what they should say yes or no to1:44:18because they could also be saying yes or1:44:20no to the right thing. Yeah.1:44:22>> Well, you you got to learn to think for1:44:23yourself. You got to learn to think for1:44:26yourself.1:44:27And not listen to what your friends are1:44:29saying. Not listen to even what your1:44:30teachers are saying or your friends or1:44:31your or your parents or whatever.1:44:34Listen to them.1:44:35But then also think for yourself and1:44:36like is is that true? Is that right?1:44:38Mhm.1:44:39You know, I I was always one to question1:44:41everything that anybody told me. Mhm.1:44:44Maybe I you know, maybe you have to1:44:45conform sometimes and do what you're1:44:46told when you're a little kid but1:44:50ultimately like like with peer pressure1:44:51with drugs and and all that kind of1:44:53stuff when I was in high school1:44:55I just like look, you guys do your1:44:57thing. Have fun. Yeah. Do your thing.1:45:01All good.1:45:02I'll I'll see you guys tomorrow. Yeah.1:45:04And I just I just avoided it1:45:06completely 100%.1:45:08And I don't regret that at all cuz my my1:45:10career advanced beautifully1:45:13and I became really good at what I did1:45:14while they were working construction1:45:16jobs.1:45:18Or doing whatever. I don't know what1:45:19they did. What would your advice be? I1:45:21mean1:45:23definitely deep thinking is is1:45:24important. Like not only thinking for1:45:26yourself but thinking deeply cuz some1:45:27people overthink, right? There's like1:45:29this thing where they're just they get1:45:31the analysis paralysis. What I was1:45:33taught by pastor was think not only for1:45:36yourself, think for others but think1:45:38deeply. Right? And what what I mean by1:45:40that is like each thing has to lead to1:45:44like an an actual outcome versus like it1:45:47doesn't always have to be positive1:45:48either. You could think about the things1:45:50that are negative but be like what what1:45:52would it lead to, right? So1:45:55for example1:45:56like me having this kind of1:45:58predisposition to drugs and like1:46:00violence, right? Pastor would teach me1:46:02like yo, you have to think what you're1:46:04going to do. You can't just be like this1:46:05guy disrespected me. I'm going to sock1:46:07him in the face, right? Or like this guy1:46:08disrespected me. I'm going to shoot him.1:46:09Cuz that's that was literally my thought1:46:11process. But he's like what you when you1:46:13do what do you do after that? So you you1:46:15if this guy disrespects you, okay, you1:46:17punch him in the face. Then what? Then1:46:19you guys get into a fight. Then he might1:46:20be having a gun. Then what? And it's1:46:21like this these kind of like blockchains1:46:24of just reaching to the outcome. And1:46:26that made me just that little thing that1:46:28he said was like dang, I never used to1:46:31think like that.1:46:32Like I'm hungry. I'm going to steal. I1:46:34want to you know, sleep with a girl. I'm1:46:36going to hit this girl up. I want to do1:46:37drugs. Give me the like bumpies1:46:39whatever. It was never like a deep1:46:41thinking. And so I think that's the one1:46:43thing that people have to learn is like1:46:46but it's so difficult cuz everything is1:46:48impulsive now, right? It's like1:46:50They're trying to be impulsive.1:46:52>> Literally. Literally. It's dopamine hit1:46:53after dopamine hit that you know, you1:46:55know, doom scrolling but at the same1:46:57time1:46:59it's it's also kind of just reminiscent.1:47:01Like I remember back when mail used to1:47:04be like snail mail, right? And if you1:47:07got something a week like in a week,1:47:09you'd be like Oh my gosh, that was fast.1:47:11>> [clears throat]1:47:11>> Do you remember that? Yes. I remember1:47:12that. And now it's like Amazon Prime.1:47:15If you if it passes those 48 hours1:47:18you're like hitting up customer service.1:47:21I remember when I was locked up in the1:47:22pen, right? I could remember like1:47:25100 numbers. Bro, I got out and this1:47:28freaking computer on the phone thing and1:47:30I I can't even remember my own number.1:47:33>> [laughter]1:47:33>> Yo, what the hell happened to my brain,1:47:35bro? So in this way I think a lot of the1:47:37times people cannot think deeply. That's1:47:40the biggest issue nowadays that I'm1:47:41seeing. People I'll be telling a story1:47:44and they're like I I'm talking 301:47:46seconds. I get to the point. I'm like1:47:47what do you mean get to the point, bro?1:47:48I'm barely even like unraveling. You1:47:50have to say a hook first. Like how do1:47:52you say a hook? I have to like play1:47:54Subway Surfers like a You know what I1:47:56mean? It's like to get people's1:47:57attention. It's crazy. But I've noticed1:47:59that people don't their attention spans1:48:01are gone. People aren't reading books1:48:03anymore. They're just not1:48:05able to think deeply. Chat GPT is1:48:08rampant, right? It's just crazy. So1:48:10Yeah. You know what helped me? And I1:48:12don't know if I was attracted to chess1:48:14as a kid or because I was on the chess1:48:16team in grade school. See, deep1:48:17thinking. teaches you Yeah. how the move1:48:20this move you make today Yeah. will have1:48:24repercussions later down the road. It's1:48:27not just going to be like what if I do1:48:28this today, that's going to happen1:48:29tomorrow. It's like if I do this today1:48:31that person's going to do this which is1:48:33going to make that person do that and1:48:34then these people will see it this way1:48:36and there's there's seven steps that are1:48:38going to happen because of what you do1:48:40right now. Mhm. And so you you end up1:48:41taking much more responsibility for1:48:43every move you make. 100%.1:48:45>> Everything you do has repercussions and1:48:46you don't if you don't realize that1:48:48you're going to make these stupid moves1:48:49and don't realize how that's going to1:48:51affect you when you're older1:48:53down the road.1:48:54Everything has repercussions and if you1:48:58understand that you'll do everything1:48:59much more1:49:01kind of you'll think a lot more before1:49:03yours Do you have siblings? I have a a1:49:06sister who's 5 years older. She's a1:49:07dentist. And okay, I was like, is she1:49:09anything like you? No, she's she's super1:49:12super intelligent. Probably1:49:14maybe the most intelligent person I1:49:15know.1:49:16Super super bright.1:49:18And very kind of practical and pragmatic1:49:20and1:49:21like like my favorite kind of1:49:23person. Yeah, I love I love my sister.1:49:26But she uh she's not1:49:29like I'm a little more of a risk-taker.1:49:32She's very conservative.1:49:34I'm a little bit odd. What are your what1:49:36are your parents like? Because you1:49:37mentioned the religion thing that they1:49:38kind of forced some discipline on you.1:49:40>> My my dad was just a hard-working1:49:43dude. My mom was the artist and that's1:49:45where I get that from.1:49:46So my mom my mom had this creativity and1:49:48and and aesthetic thing and was always1:49:52impeccably dressed and always presented1:49:53herself beautifully1:49:55every single day.1:49:57And it was just beautiful to be around1:49:58that.1:49:59And the and the way she loved me was1:50:00such so amazing. Just1:50:02I can never1:50:04lose track of that in my head. And it's1:50:06like1:50:07I just feel like I'm really lucky cuz I1:50:08had a really good male role model1:50:11in my life and a really good1:50:13example of what a woman should be. Can1:50:15you can you kind of verbalize what those1:50:17things were? Because you know, what you1:50:18talked about is like parenting is so1:50:20important for this generation to make1:50:22sure your kids don't end up in a lot of1:50:24these situations. So when you describe1:50:26what was so amazing about your mother1:50:29what were the tangible things that she1:50:31did for you or what do you remember?1:50:34I mean the I mean she did a lot of1:50:35things. She was a great cook and she was1:50:36a great homemaker and all that, but she1:50:38also became a model late in life1:50:41and was like she didn't just become a1:50:42model. She was like super successful.1:50:45Wow.1:50:45>> For for an older model in in Chicago.1:50:47Like she wasn't in New York City. She1:50:48was in Chicago. So it's a smaller1:50:49market. But but she was just really1:50:51respected and and really loved by a lot1:50:53of people. Yeah. She was on Oprah's show1:50:55a lot. She she did a lot of stuff. Oh.1:50:57But it was it was more the thing that1:51:00really impacted me the most was that she1:51:04like I I think I said this on Danny's1:51:05video1:51:06interview with me.1:51:07I could have been gay. I could have been1:51:09a drug addict. I could have been a gang1:51:11member. I could have been1:51:14I could have flunked out of school. I1:51:16could have been a total1:51:18up in every way.1:51:20And my mom still would have loved me1:51:21100%.1:51:23And because you know that they love you1:51:25like that1:51:27you you want to honor that.1:51:31And you don't want to disappoint them.1:51:35So you work really hard to make sure1:51:41that that they're proud of you.1:51:44Were they able to see what you built?1:51:46Oh, yeah.1:51:47Wow. Yeah.1:51:49I1:51:49I remember1:51:52I mean like sometimes parents are just1:51:54the way parents are.1:51:56You know, my my mom was always proud of1:51:57me from the get-go. From a little kid,1:51:59she was always proud of me. So it wasn't1:52:00like I had to1:52:01do anything to1:52:02you know, get her love or get any kind1:52:03of response from her. But my dad was1:52:05very like you know, if you if if you're1:52:07not successful like Yeah. what the Yeah.1:52:10So at one point with my advertising1:52:13career, I was just making money to just1:52:15couldn't stop it. It was just like I1:52:16wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't even go1:52:18to the Bank of America, which is just1:52:19right around the corner from my studio1:52:21to deposit the checks until they were1:52:23over 100,000.1:52:25Because it was like I just didn't have1:52:26time for it. And I would I would1:52:27literally run to the bank1:52:29and deposit the money and run back1:52:31because I did I I was so busy. I want1:52:33that problem.1:52:33>> I was that I was that busy and I I1:52:35remember one point I had a1:52:37you know, you go to ATM machine and I1:52:38had a I had a over a million dollars in1:52:40the in the ATM. In in that in the it's a1:52:42little checking account. Even the even1:52:44the bank teller would be like, why do1:52:45you have this kind of money in a1:52:48you know, I had other money too. I had1:52:49you know, investments and things like1:52:50that.1:52:51But in my checking account I did just1:52:53just accumulated and accumulated and I1:52:54had a million dollars. And I sent I1:52:57mailed my dad the ATM1:53:00slip1:53:02that had over a million dollars and1:53:04he even still he he just passed away a1:53:05couple months ago, but he he would talk1:53:07about that all the time.1:53:09Dang. Yeah, made him proud.1:53:10Yeah, that's a that's a very interesting1:53:12throw throw line. It's like1:53:13unconditional love seems to be the thing1:53:16that Oh, unconditional love is the1:53:18remedy for everything. You want your kid1:53:20to be great in life? You want them to1:53:22excel and do great things? That that is1:53:24the1:53:26that is the the ingredient. No, even1:53:28unconditional1:53:28>> But but unconditional love is not it's1:53:30like it's hard to1:53:32find. Yeah.1:53:33>> Super rare. Super rare.1:53:36And I didn't have it from my dad. My dad1:53:37was like if you got to be successful in1:53:39order to get my love.1:53:41But I had it from my mom and I had it in1:53:42spades1:53:44from my mom.1:53:45It's amazing you were able to see it1:53:47like that. Because I think sometimes1:53:48people try to give unconditional love1:53:51and then someone can see it as like like1:53:54discipline, right? There's times where I1:53:57can see a parent truly loves their kids1:53:59and they're like they have to discipline1:54:01Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But1:54:02the kids1:54:03depending on the personality and just1:54:05how they are hardwired I've seen kids1:54:08same parent would be like, wow, mom's1:54:11doing this and I get it. And the other1:54:13kids like, mom hates us. Like what are1:54:14you talking about, right? So it's same1:54:16love, but I think I think where1:54:20you have what you're very graceful at is1:54:22like you saw that in your mom. You're1:54:23like, man, no matter what I do mom's1:54:26going to love me no matter what, right?1:54:27And so1:54:29whereas I don't know if your sister1:54:30feels the same, but you know.1:54:32Yeah, I I well, I think it's also the1:54:34person receiving that that love or that1:54:37that conditional love even the even like1:54:39my dad's love was conditional.1:54:41>> Sure. But I still know he loved me. He1:54:42was just doing the best he could do1:54:44given the childhood that he had, which1:54:45was1:54:46up. Yeah. So he was doing his very best1:54:48and it's like to me like both my parents1:54:51were amazing, but my dad was really the1:54:52miracle cuz he came from absolute crap.1:54:55My mom came from two loving parents.1:54:56>> Got you. So it's like what like the1:54:58apple doesn't fall that far from the1:54:59tree. Right.1:55:00>> My dad really1:55:01fell very far from the tree1:55:04in my book. My mom kind of didn't. She1:55:06had two loving parents. She was loving1:55:08to me.1:55:09When do you think you recognized that?1:55:11Like my parents love me. My dad's1:55:14conditional, but still loves me.1:55:166 months old probably. I don't know. You1:55:19know it right away. Wow. You know it1:55:20right away. You just can't verbalize it.1:55:22True. You know it before you can speak.1:55:24That is so interesting.1:55:27That's that's it's it's the most1:55:28important1:55:29it's the most important factor in a1:55:30person's life, period.1:55:31Love for sure.1:55:33For sure. That's kind of the thing that1:55:35I picked up from this.1:55:37This interview's been so fascinating to1:55:39be like what the channel is and who you1:55:41are as a person. And it's like you're1:55:43you're this rebel that1:55:46I can tell you deeply care about people.1:55:48Yeah, yeah.1:55:49Yeah, sure. You deeply care about1:55:50people, but you're also not scared to go1:55:53against the grain. And yeah, and it's1:55:55just this is super fascinating. I I just1:55:57I just would love like like basically1:56:01it's an software underbelly is like an1:56:02homage to my parents.1:56:04My parents loved me really beautifully,1:56:05I thought. You know, my my dad could1:56:08have done better, but I don't regret1:56:10anything about the way he loved me cuz1:56:12it made me successful and I love who1:56:14I've turned into.1:56:16But software underbelly is like my way1:56:18of saying1:56:19like1:56:20I don't know any smarter, any more1:56:21intelligent way or more creative way or1:56:23more effective way1:56:25of showing the world how1:56:28important it is to have good parents.1:56:30Cuz I could do a bunch of videos with1:56:31people that are wildly successful, had1:56:32great parents and you guys. Like I don't1:56:35need to see these sugarcoated videos of1:56:37these Yeah. wealthy, successful, happy1:56:41You know, but if I show these videos of1:56:42people who did not have that, had the1:56:44exact opposite of that1:56:46and show you what a train wreck those1:56:47lives become mixed in with some people1:56:48who have climbed out of it and some1:56:50success some some beautiful stories too,1:56:53which I have had some of those.1:56:55I think that's a much more interesting1:56:58uh message. Way way of delivering the1:57:00message. Wow. Do you think every like a1:57:02scared straight program? Yeah.1:57:04>> [laughter]1:57:04>> Would you recommend that people have1:57:06children?1:57:07If you're if you're going to be a good1:57:09parent, if you're going to stick around1:57:10to be in their lives.1:57:13Yeah, like I I went to every single one1:57:15of my daughter's volleyball games. I1:57:16never missed it.1:57:20You know, I I I think both my daughters1:57:22would say I'm a great parent, great dad.1:57:24And their mom is even better.1:57:26So they they had the luxury of having1:57:28two parents kind of like mine.1:57:30Probably even some ways1:57:34different just different than my my1:57:36parents, but1:57:38like my ex-wife Ellie is just the1:57:39greatest.1:57:41Just the greatest. And then I did my1:57:43very best, too. And my kids both1:57:45benefited from that.1:57:46That's makes it so for me I'm a single1:57:49guy, obviously. One day I hope to find1:57:51love. It's really interesting to hear1:57:53that you talk so fondly and great about1:57:56your ex-wife and you guys both did a1:57:57great job raising your kids. What was it1:58:00with each other that was it was hard to1:58:02continue giving each other unconditional1:58:04love?1:58:05Uh1:58:06well, you're getting into personal1:58:08now. That's probably not the right place1:58:09for1:58:11Um1:58:12No, it's like people people just1:58:13sometimes grow apart. Yeah. It's just1:58:16not not that there's anything wrong with1:58:18her.1:58:19I'm not I'm not going to say anything1:58:20negative about anybody. Yeah. It's just1:58:22like sometimes relationships are hard to1:58:23maintain for1:58:25>> [clears throat]1:58:25>> 20, 30 years. Very true.1:58:27>> But we're still friendly as can be. You1:58:28would you1:58:29you would see us together and just1:58:31laughing and getting along like1:58:33like we did when we were married. Wow.1:58:35She's amazing. She's an amazing woman.1:58:37What would you say are like the criteria1:58:39for people that are out there? What1:58:40would you be like, hey, when you1:58:42obviously someone that's very loving,1:58:43but that can be broad. When you look for1:58:45the quality in a partner1:58:47what would you say, hey, okay1:58:49Be be the be the1:58:52partner or person that1:58:54like like like I I tend to like a1:58:57certain type of1:58:59woman.1:59:00And I try to be the male equivalent of1:59:02that so that the1:59:04the partner I'm with would be1:59:06attracted to somebody who's really kind1:59:09of has some qualities that are just1:59:10really spectacular.1:59:12Like I I only respond to people that are1:59:14really spectacular.1:59:16Like like if I'm going to have a1:59:18girlfriend, she's going to be1:59:19pretty amazing in some way.1:59:23You know, just just or or my ex-wife or1:59:25whatever.1:59:27Doesn't have to be the same quality. It1:59:28doesn't have to be their beauty or their1:59:31whatever. Could be their style, could be1:59:32their intelligence, could be their sense1:59:33of humor, could be their1:59:35their kindness, could be their so many1:59:37different things it could be. Could be a1:59:39great athlete, could be anything.1:59:42But I I tend to be attracted to people1:59:44who are spectacular. Mhm.1:59:47I like that.1:59:47>> And I And I try to be spectacular for1:59:48them, too. In in my ways that I'm that I1:59:52have strengths in. And I have1:59:53weaknesses, too. I definitely have1:59:55weaknesses. I'm There's things I am1:59:56definitely not good at.1:59:58But there are other things that I'm1:59:59really good at. I try to Yeah. Be there2:00:01for the for my partner. That's great.2:00:03Self-awareness, honest.2:00:05I like that. I'd never settle.2:00:07>> Yeah. Never settle.2:00:09>> [laughter]2:00:09>> Yeah, I mean the world's the world's2:00:10competitive.2:00:11>> Yeah. The world is just competitive. So2:00:12if you're not going to be spectacular,2:00:14then2:00:15good luck.2:00:17Sorry, buddy.2:00:18It's going to be a tough one for me.2:00:20Yeah, you're hanging in there.2:00:21>> wearing a Packers shirt.2:00:23>> [laughter]2:00:23>> You're a Bears fan. I'm a Bears fan.2:00:25>> For sure. Go Bears.2:00:27>> What part of Chicago are you from? I2:00:28grew2:00:28>> Elmhurst, western suburb. Okay, I'm2:00:30south side, home of Foster area. Cool.2:00:33But how can you how can you be wearing a2:00:34green and Packers shirt? My parents are2:00:35both from Wisconsin, so Oh.2:00:38>> I just grew up a Packers fan.2:00:39>> poor dude. I'm sorry.2:00:39>> I know. I'm a Cubs fan, though. Are you2:00:41Sox, Cubs?2:00:42>> Tigers. I was I was I was born in2:00:44Detroit. Okay, okay. I lived in Detroit2:00:46until the Tigers won the World Series.2:00:49Actually I actually moved out from2:00:50Detroit the year they won the World2:00:52Series. So but I wasn't even into the2:00:53baseball yet. I I I got into the2:00:55baseball right after the Tigers2:00:57won the World Series against the2:00:58Cardinals. But2:00:59uh2:01:00I was always a Tigers fan for baseball,2:01:04Bears for football,2:01:06always loved the Lakers. Even when I2:01:08lived in Chicago, I just There's2:01:09something about Yeah. That's it. X. Big2:01:13sports fans. All you guys talk about how2:01:15amazing Chicago is and I see you living2:01:17in LA. You guys2:01:20Everyone in Chicago's like Chicago's so2:01:22great. It's like why don't you live2:01:23there? My dad used to say there's only2:01:25three things wrong with Chicago.2:01:26December, January, February. That's2:01:28great. It's freezing out there and it's2:01:31Yeah, it's called the Windy City, right?2:01:32Isn't that what they call it?2:01:33>> You trying to go back one day?2:01:35You guys don't understand what it's like2:01:36to live in a cold place like that. It's2:01:38fine to visit, but it's every day the2:01:40cold air comes off your windows. Getting2:01:42out of the shower is a cold breeze. Your2:01:44tiles cold. I I I I2:01:47took uh2:01:48my girlfriend to Chicago for the Players2:01:50Ball that Pimp Don2:01:52the Pimp Don Magic Wand had his2:01:54like whatever. I don't know if I don't2:01:56know if it's his final Players Ball, but2:01:57a big one. And the first thing I did is2:01:59we went I talked to one of the pimps and2:02:01he said, "Oh, here's a place to go you2:02:02can rent fur coats." So we went down got2:02:05off the plane, went rented a car, and2:02:07rented fur coats, full-length fur coats.2:02:09That's necessary.2:02:10>> And they were warm as can be. They were2:02:11so warm. Do you have pictures?2:02:13Yeah, I do. I'll send you a picture.2:02:15That's funny. Well, I ran out of2:02:17questions. This was so good. I learned2:02:19so much. Do you guys have anything you2:02:20want to2:02:22No, I'm just appreciative of you, Mark.2:02:24You know, I've shared this so much.2:02:25>> Yeah, it's mutual. Yeah. Mutual2:02:27admiration here.2:02:28>> I'm appreciative of you, too, because of2:02:29this. Right? He's changed my life, you2:02:31know. And your channel's been It's just2:02:34such a2:02:36I All the stories. Anytime I find a2:02:38video, it's2:02:39passing it to my friends. Cool. Yeah.2:02:42It's incredible. Thank you so much. Do2:02:44you want to share this book? What's the2:02:45What's here on the table?2:02:46>> Uh I don't like hawking things.2:02:48>> Oh, okay.2:02:48>> So I I have a couple books of portraits2:02:50and quotes.2:02:51>> [laughter]2:02:51>> Go to selfmadeunderbelly.org2:02:55and you can see them, but I'm not I2:02:57don't like2:02:58Old Yeah, yeah, yeah.2:02:59>> like I don't want to be a salesman. And2:03:01you got to say I don't want to sell2:03:02anything.2:03:03>> Don't hit notifications and don't uh hit2:03:05the like button. Yeah, yeah. Don't leave2:03:07a comment. Don't Don't Don't Don't do2:03:09anything. Don't even watch my my videos.2:03:11Don't even watch my That's as metal as2:03:13it gets and that's the end.2:03:15Block this channel. So see you. Don't do2:03:18it. Don't do it.2:03:19That's it. Yeah, well, thank you Thank2:03:21you for coming on. Thank you, Mark.2:03:22Thank you, Johnny. Thank you. You're2:03:24amazing. You, too. Thanks, man. Hey.2:03:26Yeah, yeah, let's Like, comment, and2:03:27subscribe. We do say all that. So share2:03:30with a friend.2:03:31>> We are not Mark. We are Hard White2:03:33Underbelly.2:03:34>> Yeah, we are.
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